Need Opinions on Finishing Stove Install (Liner Top Support)

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rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
There have been a few hiccups in my stove install. The company is coming in two weeks to finish it off. I wanted to get everyone's opinion to see the best option to move forward.

One of the issues is that they forgot to order an EXCEL liner top support. They continued and installed the EXCEL liner and wall path through. They put on a temporary (Integrity) top plate to seal everything off. The top plate wasn't trimmed as they plan on reusing it.

While on the roof today (sealing it up from an antenna mount I removed) I decided to take a closer look. The EXCEL top support claims to be 4.5" tall (needing that much liner to mount to). The temporary top support is just under 3". There is zero room left from the temporary top support, so I'm assuming they are not going to have enough space to install the top plate correctly. I mentioned this to the installer and he mentioned they save sections from the liner and can extend it (I guess just 2" or so?).

Given this situation is it even worth putting on the EXCEL top plate? Will the 2" extension be strong if riveted into place? My preference is to have the EXCEL top plate as it seems to better protect the liner from the rain. The current one has some large gaps around the liner. BUT, if modifying the liner at this point is just going to make it worse I will live with it.

What is the best option here?

I'm kind of pissed they didn't bother to look up that the top support was 4.5" and just make sure it was long enough, to begin with. Other issues have been a result of not measuring accurately or reading the manual from this specific liner. Does it matter? Am I being too picky?


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rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
I'll piggyback onto this post and ask another install question...

Does this wall pass through install look safe? There is a huge gap for whatever reason on the right side where it attaches into the tee.

IMG_8606.JPG IMG_6470.JPG
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,116
central pa
Nope not good at all
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,116
central pa
Can you elaborate so I can go back to the installer? What would need to be done to correct it? Tear it all out and reconnect?
Yes take it all apart and use components that fit properly. And smearing furnace cement in the huge gap is a joke.
 
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rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
Yes take it all apart and use components that fit properly. And smearing furnace cement in the huge gap is a joke.

Not really sure what to do here. There has been a number of issues, most of them "small" or cosmetic like a crooked stove, not getting the right distance from the wall (I wanted 7", it's going to most likely be 8"), scratching part of the stove when putting the flue collar heat shield on, etc...

Then realizing the top support issue and how basically there is no easy correct fix for it and why he couldn't have just left the correct 4.5–5" on top.

Now realizing this huge gap and the potential safety issue I'm just pissed. We have two small kids. Upon further investigation, their attempt to basically "fix" or hide it without telling me about it. If they didn't screw up the distance to the wall they would have hooked up the stove and I would have probably started my burns in it without notice.

I don't really even trust them right now to come out and reinstall/fix the issues. Should I just tell them to forget it and come get their stuff?

The wall pass-through has tapcon bolts in it and I don't think the holes can be reused. I'm assuming the holes can be patched and the next install the wall pass-through can be rotated 90 degrees to get a new fresh area to tap into?
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
One more photo. The cleanout they installed in the basement. All the cement around that has cracked. Assuming that isn't normal? Too much water or something? They offered to patch that too when I brought it up, but I thought the cracking was a bit excessive.

IMG_8709 2.JPG
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
Looking at it more, it seems like he trimmed the wall pass-through short and then tried to bridge the gap with a trimmed piece of liner? These three screws certainly shouldn't be part of the installation, right? At least I see no reference to them in the instructions.

If you are installing an EXCELiner or EXCELFlex stainless steel liner inside the masonry chimney, then you can connect it directly to the insulated thimble.

Seems what those back brackets are supposed to be doing?


IMG_6470.JPG
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,116
central pa
I don't use excel so I can't say
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
Ok. Well at the very least it's 1.5" out of the wall and the manual says a minimum of 3" — so it's too short in many ways probably.

Can the slip pieces in the liner be repositioned (lengthened)? I'm thinking if they get this pulled out then I can pull the liner out and hopefully make it 2" longer as needed. I would need to see what size slip they ordered to see if there is enough length there.

However, then I would be exposing the original screw or rivet holes. Assuming that is not OK?

Again, trying to get some info for the dealer to see what they will need totally replace and what is still usable.
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
They're coming to reinstall the wall pass-through and snout from the tee. The photos were sent to ICC (Excel) and they couldn't figure out how that gap was there, other than the diameter looked more like 5.5" than 6". Still concerning the installing didn't bring it up.

They're going to add a 12" slip/adjustable piece to the top to get the extra height we need. I'm guessing that will mean like 10" of the slip will be in the pipe and only two extra inches sticking out. Then add the correct top support. Sounds like due to the math of the chimney that slip/adjustable piece would have to be in there anyway. They are already using a slip/adjustable piece but it's under the tee — that's how they're getting the cleanout in the basement to the correct height.

The last thing that concerns me is that they need to reuse the tapcon holes in in the cement block for the wall thimble. They made it sound like it was possible though and were going to prep the holes before reinstalling.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,116
central pa
They're coming to reinstall the wall pass-through and snout from the tee. The photos were sent to ICC (Excel) and they couldn't figure out how that gap was there, other than the diameter looked more like 5.5" than 6". Still concerning the installing didn't bring it up.

They're going to add a 12" slip/adjustable piece to the top to get the extra height we need. I'm guessing that will mean like 10" of the slip will be in the pipe and only two extra inches sticking out. Then add the correct top support. Sounds like due to the math of the chimney that slip/adjustable piece would have to be in there anyway. They are already using a slip/adjustable piece but it's under the tee — that's how they're getting the cleanout in the basement to the correct height.

The last thing that concerns me is that they need to reuse the tapcon holes in in the cement block for the wall thimble. They made it sound like it was possible though and were going to prep the holes before reinstalling.
You can absolutely reuse tapcon holes.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,116
central pa
Good to hear. Any prep work needed on the holes, or if it bites and holds it's good?
Nothing I know that you could do to prep
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
So they're coming today to make the corrections. I got a call about 15 minutes ago that they have the new tee and wall pass-through at the shop and it has the same gap on the inside! They said the outside is totally sealed, and mechanically and safety-wise they are OK with it. They're going to show it to me here before we do anything with it.

I'm still surprised ICC/Excel would have such an issue with their connections? All the other tees and cleanout snout looks fine.

Surely something isn't right?
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
So the issue seems to be that Excel says there should be a 1/8" difference between the pipe and it turns out to actually be closer to 1/2". Like the wall passthrough pipe is too big, because all the other pieces fit well.

The outside fits well and they added some gasket rope to make it more symmetrical. It looks a lot better, but I'm. It sure I would recommend ICC/Excel after this.

The installer called them and got the exact part they recommended. It was the same part they had before and the same loose fit.
IMG_20200822_104843.jpg
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
Stove finally installed. Ended up being 8.5" off the wall, the pipe is about 7.5". To me, that doesn't add up, but I think the wall in this old farmhouse is just really crooked. Which would explain why our pocket door rubs so badly at the bottom.

Ignore the holes in the walls, that was from another project.

I still plan on getting ahold of ICC/Excel to find out what's going on with this wall pass-through. I don't like the idea of it having a gasket that might need to be replaced — although the installer told me it wasn't really needed and more to keep the gap uniform and keep creosote from leaking. It does close tightly on the outside against the tee. Not impressed though for the cost of Excel rigid liner.

IMG_20200824_081831.jpg IMG_20200824_081843.jpg IMG_20200824_081853.jpg
 

kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
6,103
07462
I kind of like the rope gasket idea, I dont think you would get any smoke leakage w/ or without the rope gasket, but what will happen overtime is that gap will fill with creosote and if you have an over-fire in the stove there is a chance of a small chimney fire occurring, the rope gasket acts like a filler keeping the creosote out, reducing the risk of a chunk forming, thats really all it would do from a practicable stand point.
Also put a level on the pass through pipe, make sure its slightly angled towards the stove, you want any liquid creosote to be able to drain back towards the stove, anything liquid in the chimney will simply drain down to the clean out, so make sure thats capped tightly, but not over tight for when you do chimney cleanings, unless you want to remove the interior pipe and suck up all the stuff that settles at the bottom of the clean out.
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
I kind of like the rope gasket idea, I dont think you would get any smoke leakage w/ or without the rope gasket, but what will happen overtime is that gap will fill with creosote and if you have an over-fire in the stove there is a chance of a small chimney fire occurring, the rope gasket acts like a filler keeping the creosote out, reducing the risk of a chunk forming, thats really all it would do from a practicable stand point.
Also put a level on the pass through pipe, make sure its slightly angled towards the stove, you want any liquid creosote to be able to drain back towards the stove, anything liquid in the chimney will simply drain down to the clean out, so make sure thats capped tightly, but not over tight for when you do chimney cleanings, unless you want to remove the interior pipe and suck up all the stuff that settles at the bottom of the clean out.

Thanks for the feedback. Do you think that gasket will ever need to be replaced? That's my issue. If it needs to be replaced I think the wall thimble will have to come out again. I got the F 55 because of the low maintenance. I didn't think the pipe would be the issue. Haha.

They said they put a slow towards the stove, but it appears to be sloping back into the chimney currently. This could just be the trim piece though as it's pretty snug on one side. I need to take the trim off and redrill the holes to it's better centered on the passthrough trim part. Right now it's rightly and kind of pushing on it, so it might be superficially sloping the wrong way. I have to take the trim off anyway to paint (after I fix the hole in the walls).
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
Clean out after repairing the cracks. This has a tee and adjustable snout on it that looks very tight on the inside. Something is just off on the diameter of the wall pass-through. They mentioned in the wall pass-through instructions that if you're using Excel liner to just attach it.

IMG_20200824_101910.jpg
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,567
South Puget Sound, WA
That looks better. Is the stove pipe double-wall? Were screws used on the joints?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,567
South Puget Sound, WA
Good deal. Looks like you are ready for some break-in fires to dry out the firebrick and then bake in the paint.
 

rosem

Member
Aug 27, 2019
127
Northern Michigan
Good deal. Looks like you are ready for some break-in fires to dry out the firebrick and then bake in the paint.

Yeah, got it up to 200F and 300F already. Heatwave here this week (high 80's) so I'm waiting to do the last 400F break-in. :)

Do you think that gasket will need to be replaced at some point?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,567
South Puget Sound, WA
Yeah, got it up to 200F and 300F already. Heatwave here this week (high 80's) so I'm waiting to do the last 400F break-in. :)

Do you think that gasket will need to be replaced at some point?
Possibly if it gets roughed up during cleanings, but otherwise, probably not for a long time.