need user/installer input on this one

[will711]

all good advice, so, knowing all you folks are sitting out there wondering what the outcome would be, I thought I would fill you in....

the homeowner called back today, after getting the bill we mailed to them, and after a fairly long conversation, they deemed they wouldnt pay it OR rectify the issue of the stove in the same flue with two other appliances. Even though it was installed incorrectly, and the igniter was ash covered and would not ignite, they decided that the real fault lay with the dealer in not telling them to clean the igniter, even though its cleary shown on page 25 of their owner's manual (its a p43)....As for the issue of 3 appliances in one flue, and, after telling them its an excessively dangerous situation, we were told that it isnt our responsibility to tell them how to install it (but it IS our responsibility to make sure they read the manual?!), and that "its been like that for 25 years, so it CANT be unsafe...", so, after being told it was none of my business, I had the sad job of informing them that we would no longer provide service for the unit, be it warrantee or not, until it was brought up to code and manufacturer specs, and the previous bill was paid. I did not call the code official, as some of you suggested, since I agree with Craig in his earlier assessment.

Just a thought you may want to send a letter( certified as Craig mentioned above) referencing the phone conversation you had on what ever date. You have made to homeowner aware of the risks and he is willing to accept them.... now there is a paper trail. If these folks are blaming the dealer for not telling them to clean the igniter who do you think they will blame if something goes wrong??

 

[Lousyweather]

all good advice, so, knowing all you folks are sitting out there wondering what the outcome would be, I thought I would fill you in....

the homeowner called back today, after getting the bill we mailed to them, and after a fairly long conversation, they deemed they wouldnt pay it OR rectify the issue of the stove in the same flue with two other appliances. Even though it was installed incorrectly, and the igniter was ash covered and would not ignite, they decided that the real fault lay with the dealer in not telling them to clean the igniter, even though its cleary shown on page 25 of their owner's manual (its a p43)....As for the issue of 3 appliances in one flue, and, after telling them its an excessively dangerous situation, we were told that it isnt our responsibility to tell them how to install it (but it IS our responsibility to make sure they read the manual?!), and that "its been like that for 25 years, so it CANT be unsafe...", so, after being told it was none of my business, I had the sad job of informing them that we would no longer provide service for the unit, be it warrantee or not, until it was brought up to code and manufacturer specs, and the previous bill was paid. I did not call the code official, as some of you suggested, since I agree with Craig in his earlier assessment.

Just a thought you may want to send a letter( certified as Craig mentioned above) referencing the phone conversation you had on what ever date. You have made to homeowner aware of the risks and he is willing to accept them.... now there is a paper trail. If these folks are blaming the dealer for not telling them to clean the igniter who do you think they will blame if something goes wrong??

great idea, Will, but sadly, I want tnothing more to do with them. A "we never got that" missing letter is not admissable as evidence in court, and even a certified receipt isnt.....blah. Well, guess this is a good example of the ole "you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink" argument........chalk it up to experience, I guess....

 

[Fsappo]

I always read the manuals. It sort of helps to think of it as "cheating". (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

I, too, love old things and keeping them running. There is precious little that we bought new around here. Our newest car is 11 years old. My oldest tractor is 62 years old.

I can figure things out pretty well, but especially with something that can kill you or burn your house down, it seems like a pretty sane thing to read the manuals. Same with a car or tractor. Everyone knows how to drive one, but each has its features; why not learn how to make the most of them!

R T F M!

(Read The Fine Manual)

Fine.....

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I always read the manuals. It sort of helps to think of it as "cheating". (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

I, too, love old things and keeping them running. There is precious little that we bought new around here. Our newest car is 11 years old. My oldest tractor is 62 years old.

I can figure things out pretty well, but especially with something that can kill you or burn your house down, it seems like a pretty sane thing to read the manuals. Same with a car or tractor. Everyone knows how to drive one, but each has its features; why not learn how to make the most of them!

R T F M!

(Read The Fine Manual)

Fine.....

LOL.

 

[heat seeker]

I always read the manuals. It sort of helps to think of it as "cheating". (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

I, too, love old things and keeping them running. There is precious little that we bought new around here. Our newest car is 11 years old. My oldest tractor is 62 years old.

I can figure things out pretty well, but especially with something that can kill you or burn your house down, it seems like a pretty sane thing to read the manuals. Same with a car or tractor. Everyone knows how to drive one, but each has its features; why not learn how to make the most of them!

R T F M!

(Read The Fine Manual)

Fine.....

Well, this is a g-rated forum... :cheese:

 

[Don2222]

Hello

I spent $2500 for an all fuel stainless steel flue for my oil boiler so my pellet stove could be separate.

How much would be the min cost for 2 more flues for that customer?

 

[Lousyweather]

Hello

I spent $2500 for an all fuel stainless steel flue for my oil boiler so my pellet stove could be separate.

How much would be the min cost for 2 more flues for that customer?

doesnt even need a flue....why not just pipe it out a sidewall with an approved thimble? As for the cost of 2 more flues, how is that relevant? So, are you basically suggesting that safety should be compromised because of the expense of more flues? Well, gee, I dunno....how much are your loved ones worth?

 

[arnash]

Hello

I spent $2500 for an all fuel stainless steel flue for my oil boiler so my pellet stove could be separate.

How much would be the min cost for 2 more flues for that customer?

doesnt even need a flue....why not just pipe it out a sidewall with an approved thimble? As for the cost of 2 more flues, how is that relevant? So, are you basically suggesting that safety should be compromised because of the expense of more flues? Well, gee, I dunno....how much are your loved ones worth?

and he can afford food & heat, or a new flue to replace one that isn't giving him a problem (because maybe he isn't using three heating devices simultaneously). I think I'd rather have food and heat than starve and freeze while admiring a shiny new flue. I'm just saying....

 

[Lousyweather]

Hello

I spent $2500 for an all fuel stainless steel flue for my oil boiler so my pellet stove could be separate.

How much would be the min cost for 2 more flues for that customer?

doesnt even need a flue....why not just pipe it out a sidewall with an approved thimble? As for the cost of 2 more flues, how is that relevant? So, are you basically suggesting that safety should be compromised because of the expense of more flues? Well, gee, I dunno....how much are your loved ones worth?

and he can afford food & heat, or a new flue to replace one that isn't giving him a problem (because maybe he isn't using three heating devices simultaneously). I think I'd rather have food and heat than starve and freeze while admiring a shiny new flue. I'm just saying....

the big problem is WHEN A DEVICE IS NOT RUNNING! Carbon Monoxide can backflow through the unit which isnt operating and enter the home, and well, we all know (I hope!), what an excessive buildup of CO can do, dont we? As for what he can afford or cant, we dont know that......even if he CANT afford it, it STILL isnt worth running a stove dangerously. Economics of the household is not a good excuse to operate ANYTHING dangerously, as these things can KILL you, others around you, or the first responders who have to respond to the 911 call......."just saying"

 

[seige101]

Unfortunately being an electrician i run into a similar problem all the time. I usually always hear but it's worked like that for ever.

I always inform the customer or whom ever of the situation and the steps to remedy the problem. I give my boss a text message with the situation and then foward the message to my e-mail. At the end of the day when doing my time card i make a note of the situation.

Now that i have my own license i am a lot more careful in CMA (covering my but)

 

[arnash]

Never thought about CO2 backflow, and no doubt neither did the homeowner. I'd guess that it probably wouldn't be a problem if the vent pipes from the 3 units converged at a high enough point, like the ceiling, that natural draft would cause only an upward flow, but a horizontal juncture sure would be a dangerous situation.