Neighbor freaking out over pine.

[owingsia]

I was out splitting wood and stacking it when my neighbor came over to visit. He was shocked that I was splitting up pine and staking it. Told me to only burn oak or I would have chimney fires.

I explained that I needed wood for next year (Have been splitting and stacking it since November) and pine will work when seasoned for 12 months or more. He looked at my wood stacks and was seriously concerned about me having a fire. He kept saying I do think you should be spending time stacking that stuff! He said I should cut down the 3 oak trees on my property and get them split because they will be ready by October 2015 to burn.

When I questioned him about oak he insisted that I could season in 6-8 months if split and stacked.

I asked him if he had a moisture meter and told him that come October that my pine stacks from Nov would be dryer than his oak and ready to burn. He said moisture has nothing to do with it, pine has pitch and tar in it that gunk up chimneys!


I politely informed him that plenty of people burn pine and as long as they keep the chimney clean they are fine. I didnt go into anything about keeping a chimney clean by burning only dry wood!

I also have cherry that I split and stacked in October, I hope will be ready by this time next year. My neighbor insisted that cherry could be burned fresh cut if you split it before tossing int he fire.

 

[Missouri Frontier]

you did your best. from now on just smile and nod.

 

[Jags]

Old info from old timers. I simply point out that folks up north and some out west have no other wood to choose from and they seem to get along fine with needle trees.

 

[Jon1270]

I work in a woodshop that generates both hardwood and pine scrap, and my boss has long insisted that the scrap be kept in separate bins because he only burns the hardwood, on the basis of the same misunderstanding. I recently managed to convince him he was wrong. I was amazed to have been able to overcome that old notion, but it seems I did. Makes me think more of him.

 

[CenterTree]

I also have cherry that I split and stacked in October, I hope will be ready by this time next year. My neighbor insisted that cherry could be burned fresh cut if you split it before tossing int he fire.

There's an interesting train of thought.

So as long as ya split the Cherry right B4 putting it in the stove , it is somehow magically dry enough

 

[Adabiviak]

Is he saying that pine needs longer to season than oak? I might be concerned about a house fire from his side of the property.

 

[Jon1270]

FWIW, I come at it with the assumption that there is probably some kernel of truth to the myth about pine, that actually makes sense in some contexts. In this case the context is the neighbor's assumption that wood is ready to burn on the first day it's possible to light it on fire. Pine tars ignite at a significantly lower temperature than other flammable components of wood, so pine will be wetter, on the first day it's possible to light it on fire, than will hardwoods on the first day it's possible to light them on fire. Looking at it that way, i.e. barely flammable pine vs. barely flammable hardwood, the pine will burn at a lower temperature and generate more smoke, more of which will condense on the chimney as creosote. See what I mean? The prejudice against pine follows naturally, and even usefully, from the assumption that moisture content is unimportant. If you can beat back the notion that moisture content is unimportant, then the pine thing might yield more easily.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

FWIW, I come at it with the assumption that there is probably some kernel of truth to the myth about pine, that actually makes sense in some contexts. In this case the context is the neighbor's assumption that wood is ready to burn on the first day it's possible to light it on fire. Pine tars ignite at a significantly lower temperature than other flammable components of wood, so pine will be wetter, on the first day it's possible to light it on fire, than will hardwoods on the first day it's possible to light them on fire. Looking at it that way, i.e. barely flammable pine vs. barely flammable hardwood, the pine will burn at a lower temperature and generate more smoke, more of which will condense on the chimney as creosote. See what I mean? The prejudice against pine follows naturally, and even usefully, from the assumption that moisture content is unimportant. If you can beat back the notion that moisture content is unimportant, then the pine thing might yield more easily.

Actually, you are right that there is a bit of truth to the "pine causes chimney fires" myth, but it is only of Eastern origin and it probably goes more like this....
You take your typical Easterner who, year after year, burns predominantly unseasoned Oak, blissfully developing a good thick coating of creosote in his chimney. Eventually one day he finds, or someone offers him, some nice dry Pine. He then proceeds to burn a load of this nice dry Pine in the same manner as he usually burns the wet Oak, expecting much the same sort of results, but instead the fire burns much hotter (the way it is suppose to) than it has ever done in the past, thus igniting the creosote that has been developing in the chimney over the years, and he has a huge chimney fire. The fire department comes and puts out the fire (hopefully saving his house and family), later the fire chief asks the homeowner how the chimney fire got started? To which the homeowner replies, “all I did was burn a load of Pine.” Thus perpetuating the myth that the Pine was the “cause” of the chimney fire and it is "dangerous" to burn in your stove.

Just remember the significant difference between pine and oak (if oak is what you're use to burning) is that pine not only seasons faster than oak, it also burns faster and hotter too.

 

[Hoozie]

Invite him over the next time you sweep your chimney. Then offer to sweep his.

Then have fun attempting to explain that, no, his buckets of creosote aren't safer because they came from oak

 

[owingsia]

Is he saying that pine needs longer to season than oak? I might be concerned about a house fire from his side of the property.

From what I was able to gather he thinks that pine does not actually season, instead you get pine tar and resins etc...

My wife texted me this morning saying he wanted to bring over some wood for me for next year. Told her pine was not safe etc... she had no idea and was concerned about me taking down pine trees (We have about 90% pine on 5 acres and im not paying 250+ for oak when I cant get pine and tulip poplar for free. We just ordered out stove (Woodstock Fire View) and I am going to need wood for the next year. I have cherry and tulip poplar that I hope will be ready but that may be 2016 wood (Based on moisture content come next year). Our pine stacks are seasoning well as we speak.

My wife told me she thinks I know what im doing so if I say pine is fine she is fine with that. He really had her scared though. I told her if he brings oak over we will have to wait until 2017 to burn it.

 

[Jags]

If a neighbor wanted to bring over some firewood for next winter I would be like "Yeah, sure. Right over there"

 

[owingsia]

There's an interesting train of thought.

So as long as ya split the Cherry right B4 putting it in the stove , it is somehow magically dry enough

This year about 2 weeks before Christmas he took down a huge cherry tree (live) I know I helped him. We talked about it and he said it would be ready to burn come Jan/ Feb. I didnt argue with him. Sure enough we went to visit him recently and he had the cherry we split in the house next to the stove. I asked him how it was burning and he said "Oh great! Just got to get a hot fire going with kinling and then toss in the splits. They wont burn easy if you dont do that first!" He is of the idea that since he has been burning wood his entire life he knows best. The one saving grace for him is that he does clean his chimney every month... "If you dont clean at least once a month you will have a chimney fire!"

 

[Lumber-Jack]

It is true that some types of wood (not just pine) contain small amounts of volatile resins, and although the burning of these resins could immeasurably contribute to creosote formation in chimney flues, they are far from any leading cause of creosote formation, and that is burning wood that is too wet. Of course there are other contributing factors of creosote formation which include a smoldering fire, or incomplete combustion of wood fuel in the stove, a cold chimney, leaks in the flue itself, and probably a few others I can't think of right now. Exactly how much the resins found in certain types of wood might actually contribute to creosote formation is probably unknown, but my guess is probably less than .01% in dry wood, and even less in wet wood. I'm willing to accept any evidence to the contrary.

The real key to low creosote formation and minimizing chimney fires is proper burning (no smoldering) of dry wood (<20% MC), in a modern EPA wood stove, with a well designed chimney flue, and checking and sweeping your chimney on a regular basis so you know what's going on. Take care of those things and it really doesn't mater what type of wood you burn.

Owingsia, does your neighbor friend not have access to the internet?
Oh, I'm with Jags, take the wood, but let him bring it over when you are home, not when your wife is there alone.

 

[jatoxico]

Sounds like a good guy and is genuinely concerned enough to even give you some of his wood. What kind of stove is he using? About the best you may be able to do is to tell him new stoves are different and can burn anything as long as you get the moisture down then show him the manual or some other source of your choice. No sense arguing (not that you were).

 

[fossil]

Send him out here to the Pacific Northwest for a couple weeks of Winter Camp...we'll teach him a thing or three about burning Pine & other softwoods perfectly safely.

 

[richg]

He is of the idea that since he has been burning wood his entire life he knows best.

On another web site, I tried to have an intelligent discussion with a guy who has been "burning wood all his life". He knew everything about everything and nobody was going to tell him anything new or different. He had some gems such as his 1970 stove burns just as clean as today's stoves, that wood only needs to season for a month before it is ready to burn, that pine causes creosote fires but wet oak does not, etc etc.

 

[jatoxico]

On another web site, I tried to have an intelligent discussion with a guy who has been "burning wood all his life". He knew everything about everything and nobody was going to tell him anything new or different. He had some gems such as his 1970 stove burns just as clean as today's stoves, that wood only needs to season for a month before it is ready to burn, that pine causes creosote fires but wet oak does not, etc etc.

I like this one, "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig".

 

[Backwoods Savage]

From what I was able to gather he thinks that pine does not actually season, instead you get pine tar and resins etc...

My wife texted me this morning saying he wanted to bring over some wood for me for next year. Told her pine was not safe etc... she had no idea and was concerned about me taking down pine trees (We have about 90% pine on 5 acres and im not paying 250+ for oak when I cant get pine and tulip poplar for free. We just ordered out stove (Woodstock Fire View) and I am going to need wood for the next year. I have cherry and tulip poplar that I hope will be ready but that may be 2016 wood (Based on moisture content come next year). Our pine stacks are seasoning well as we speak.

My wife told me she thinks I know what im doing so if I say pine is fine she is fine with that. He really had her scared though. I told her if he brings oak over we will have to wait until 2017 to burn it.

Congratulations on the new stove owisgsia. And nobody has told a Fireview stove that it can't burn pine!

As for the neighbor you speak of, they are all over the place. Another funny thing you will run into is that many times the advice comes hot and heavy....from people who do not burn wood. Yet, they think they know more about it than you do. Even new wood burners can get super educated and then try to educate you. I had one guy I let cut some wood on our place for a while and was amazed at his knowledge of how to fell trees, how to burn wood, etc, etc. I politely listened but did not say much. Then when we were out by one of our wood piles someone made a comment about one of my wood piles and I told them it was sold. He then really got hot under the collar when I stated there was a cord of wood in the stack. He went right to the stack and pointed out the cribbed ends and said that right there cuts down so you do not have a full cord there. By that time I'd had enough though and handed him a tape measure and told him to measure the stack and then tell me it was not a cord. He refused and continued on with his bull. So I stuck a tape on and stretched it out then told him to look closely. Oh, well, he was not aware that my wood stacks were not 8' long. He just assumed it. They were actually 10' long and there was more than a cord there. He did not cut wood long on our place...

 

[Missouri Frontier]

Congratulations on the new stove owisgsia. And nobody has told a Fireview stove that it can't burn pine!

As for the neighbor you speak of, they are all over the place. Another funny thing you will run into is that many times the advice comes hot and heavy....from people who do not burn wood. Yet, they think they know more about it than you do. Even new wood burners can get super educated and then try to educate you. I had one guy I let cut some wood on our place for a while and was amazed at his knowledge of how to fell trees, how to burn wood, etc, etc. I politely listened but did not say much. Then when we were out by one of our wood piles someone made a comment about one of my wood piles and I told them it was sold. He then really got hot under the collar when I stated there was a cord of wood in the stack. He went right to the stack and pointed out the cribbed ends and said that right there cuts down so you do not have a full cord there. By that time I'd had enough though and handed him a tape measure and told him to measure the stack and then tell me it was not a cord. He refused and continued on with his bull. So I stuck a tape on and stretched it out then told him to look closely. Oh, well, he was not aware that my wood stacks were not 8' long. He just assumed it. They were actually 10' long and there was more than a cord there. He did not cut wood long on our place...

scrounging lesson #1: arguing with the man that is letting you cut his timber seriously reduces your chances of gathering said timber.

 

[Woody Stover]

I didnt go into anything about keeping a chimney clean by burning only dry wood

It is negligent and irresponsible of you to fail to convey this most important fact. You need to go back over there immediately and warn him, or it'll be on your head if anything happens.

My neighbor insisted that cherry could be burned fresh cut if you split it before tossing in the fire.

It can be burned fresh. Just don't expect any heat to speak of....except from the chimney fire.

 

[bmblank]

I like this one, "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig".

You can polish a turd as long as you want, but in the end all you have is a shiny turd.

 

[firebroad]

Okay, this is appropriate. Had some big pines break off last week in an ice storm, my wood dealer sent his boys out to bring down the dangerous hanging ones, and stack up the mess to be hauled away. There was too much for me to handle, some limbs coming in at a foot across, and some stabbed into the solid frozen ground about 5 inches.
You are right, even the boys who work with firewood all year were trying to warn me about the "dangers" of burning pine. When I told them what I learned here, they sort of got quiet, as though to say, "She'll learn, once her chimney catches on fire!'

I have been out since sunup bucking up the big ones, got about a quarter cord. I will split when weather turns better, we are getting 9-12 of snow tomorrow.
I got finished just before 5. I am ready for a hot bath and a hot meal, I will clean the saw tomorrow.
Is that right about the pine only needing a year? I was going to ask if it takes longer than hardwood because of all the resin.
Next question, so how do you get the resin out of jeans?

 

[bmblank]

Best thing you can do with the resin is rub dirt into it. Doesn't get rid if the resin, but gets rid of the stickiness.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Miracle Whip will work. Sometimes shampoo will work too.

 

[bigbarf48]

I tend to try to avoid arguing/debating with people who I know to be wrong, saves lots of frustration

But like someone above said, he seems like he means well enough