New Guy and New To Wood Burning This Year

[firemark]

Hello all! I got this forum recommendation from other wood burners on another forum, and I have been lurking for awhile, reading the threads. I'm in NE Alabama, and we have started to use our open fireplace for the first time since we have been in the home since 2003, believe it or not.

Our fireplace is in a one-story ranch style home, approx. 1600 sq. ft. in size, built on a crawlspace in the early 70's. It is approx. 36" wide and 28" tall, and is built wider at the front to a tapered rear. I don't have those dimensions since I am burning right now. We have the Hart glass doors, and a 9" x 13" flue according to the cleaner last month. It has a concrete cap, and my cleaner placed a removable "birdcage" of heavy gauge wire on the opening to keep pests out.

We are burning seasoned/split 17" pieces of Red Oak.

I have learned that the fireplace literally eats wood. It burns free and fast.

Today, I got curious and began looking into an EPA wood-burning insert as a more efficient alternative. I found a link that informed me that the .gov was giving up to a $1500 rebate on the particular unit that I found in a thread here in the $1000-1300 range.

I work closely with the City Building Inspectors, and there are no inspections on installs in existing homes. I can round enough help up to install an insert, if needed.

Am I going down the right path, and/or do you have any suggestions?

 

[Pagey]

If you want more heat from that wonderful red oak, you'll certainly get more with an EPA certified insert. Take some measurements and then look at some models that will fit your fireplace. I recommend lining the existing flue with a stainless steel liner that is the right size for your insert (usually 6"). Insulate the liner for optimal performance of if the current masonry flue is not built to code.

 

[SteveKG]

I'm no expert on the Fed. tax credit, but I believe it is only good til Dec. 31 of this year. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But if I am correct, you will need to make up your mind soon, if the credit is a reason you want to make the change.

 

[firemark]

If I don't make the change, do you have any tips for me to "make do" until the budget allows a change? For instance, how to get heat to the far reaches of the home? Or, to stop the smoke?-The wife started a fire today, and we ran with the glass doors wide open. Then, all the smoke detectors started sounding. This was the first time to run for an extended time with the doors wide open, and for the smoke issue.

ETA: I know my draft is good. I can hear whistling.

 

[begreen]

In a one story home this is most likely a short flue. Those smoke detectors are telling you something, low draft in mild weather. Listen to them.

 

[CTYank]

If I don't make the change, do you have any tips for me to "make do" until the budget allows a change? For instance, how to get heat to the far reaches of the home? Or, to stop the smoke?-The wife started a fire today, and we ran with the glass doors wide open. Then, all the smoke detectors started sounding. This was the first time to run for an extended time with the doors wide open, and for the smoke issue.

ETA: I know my draft is good. I can hear whistling.

You do have a problem with draft; I've no idea what you mean by "whistling." To make do, don't. Seriously. An open fireplace at best is a ventilation device, not in any way a heater. Forget the far reaches. Don't waste good fuel-wood. Hopefully, the back-drafting thing is just intermittent, but I'd pursue finding the cause.

If you've got to hold off on the insert you really want, and have to pass on the rebate, sorry about that. But, instead of staring at the open wood-disposal-unit, you could work on becoming a proficient scrounger of firewood, and prepare for the future. Great exercise. Good excuse to get a chainsaw.

Opportunity to study up on getting useful heat from wood. Welcome.

 

[shawneyboy]

Open fireplace is more than likely a heat loss not a gain. If you want heat you will be best served with an insert or a stove using the existing chimney. You will need to get a liner as well as an insert/stove. Your detectors are telling you that a draft problem exists. If you are trying to save some money on heating the home, burning in the fireplace is costing you As was said prior, take measurements and do some research to decide which unit to go with. Oh and the tax rebate does expire as of Dec. 31, and is for 30% up to the $1500.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

If I don't make the change, do you have any tips for me to "make do" until the budget allows a change? For instance, how to get heat to the far reaches of the home? Or, to stop the smoke?-The wife started a fire today, and we ran with the glass doors wide open. Then, all the smoke detectors started sounding. This was the first time to run for an extended time with the doors wide open, and for the smoke issue.

ETA: I know my draft is good. I can hear whistling.

Welcome to the forum firemark.

Installing an insert would indeed help you a lot and if you do it this month you can take a tax break.

Several things point to problems. First is the short chimney, second is the smoke issue and third is the fuel. They sort of meld together.

First you say you are burning seasoned oak. What exactly is seasoned oak? When was it cut? When was it split? How was it seasoned after it was split? The reason I ask is that around these parts we will not burn any oak before it has been split and stacked for 3 years minimum. Yes, oak dries mighty slow. It makes excellent firewood when dry but takes a long, long time to dry.

So all that smoke might be caused from burning the oak before it is ready. Couple that with the short chimney and you have lots of smoke to contend with.


If you install an insert the best way to get the heat to the far reaches is with a small fan. A table fan rather than a pedestal fan. For example, sit a small fan in a hallway or doorway, run it on low speed and blow it towards the room where the heater is. This will get the warm air circulated much better than trying to move the heat to the cooler area. If you have a ceiling fan, set it so it blows up rather than down.

 

[Coach B]

Go visit Southern Home and Hearth in Huntsville. Although I didn't end up purchasing my stove from them(they are not a Jotul dealer), they were very helpful and offer a pretty wide range of stoves/inserts for a southern stove dealer.

 

[firemark]

Thank ya'll for the helpful replies. I should have added to the original post, that we are on the Dave Ramsey plan, and have been for almost a year now. If I can wait it out on the insert, we will be credit card debt free in January 2011, and will have our emergency fund in a few weeks after that. If I can wait, I can really do the insert first class next year. I guess you could call me a cheapskate, but we have worked hard to get to his point financially.

I don't know if I should start another thread, so, here goes.

What could I do in the mean-time if I want to wait on the insert to maximize my existing setup? Is a fireback worth anything?

Thanks for the fan suggestion. We have a 52" ceiling fan in the fireplace room just a few feet from the hearth.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Jags]

Your best bet would be to block off the open fireplace with an insulated cover. You will gain very little heat into the living area WHILE burning, and will probably net a loss during the cool down phase. Really. No joke.

Edit: I can respect the cheapskate in you, but keep in mind that there are only a few areas in home appliances that have a PAYBACK. A wood stove is one. If you choose to wait a year, you will be one year behind in making cost efficient heat.

 

[basswidow]

I remember a long time ago, they made a tube grate for fireplaces that attached to a smaller blower to attempt to gleen some of the heat from a fire place.

Really a fire place is pretty to look at, but will actually cause your house to be cooler.

Congrats on your financial (debt free) accomplishment.

What is your primary heating? Oil or Gas?

You should look at the purchase of an insert as an investment that is going to make you tons of money.

If you are able to scrounge free wood, you'll never have to pay another dime to heat your home. Think about that and how quickly it will pay itself off.

Trust me - I hated to take out a HELC to finance my stove and chimney - but 3 years later - It's paid for and then some. Best purchase I have ever made. I was paying $ 5500 a winter in propane. It was bankrupting me. I couldn't afford food on the table. My wood stove saved my family - REALLY.

 

[firemark]

I remember a long time ago, they made a tube grate for fireplaces that attached to a smaller blower to attempt to gleen some of the heat from a fire place.

Really a fire place is pretty to look at, but will actually cause your house to be cooler.

Congrats on your financial (debt free) accomplishment.

What is your primary heating? Oil or Gas?

You should look at the purchase of an insert as an investment that is going to make you tons of money.

If you are able to scrounge free wood, you'll never have to pay another dime to heat your home. Think about that and how quickly it will pay itself off.

Trust me - I hated to take out a HELC to finance my stove and chimney - but 3 years later - It's paid for and then some. Best purchase I have ever made.

Electric heat pump. No gas in the home.

Since you know my money concerns, and why, what are we talking ballpark-wise on my expense for the common insert?

 

[shawneyboy]

Your best bet would be to block off the open fireplace with an insulated cover. You will gain very little heat into the living area WHILE burning, and will probably net a loss during the cool down phase. Really. No joke.

Edit: I can respect the cheapskate in you, but keep in mind that there are only a few areas in home appliances that have a PAYBACK. A wood stove is one. If you choose to wait a year, you will be one year behind in making cost efficient heat.

+1 to that

 

[basswidow]

Electric heat pump. No gas in the home.

Heat pumps are very economical - until the outside air dips below freezing and that auxilary heat light comes on and then it's strictly electric resistance heat.

Your heating situation may not be as desparate as mine was. But an insert stove could save you atleast $ 150 a month in electricity during Jan - Mar. If your power goes out, no heat pump but the stove still works!

I guess what most will say is: keep the fireplace for an occasional fire for ambiance, but don't rely on it for heat as it will do the opposite and there is not much that can be done to improve that.

If you are looking for heat, get a stove and book mark this Hearth.com as it will become your best friend.

 

[anothermortal]

Thank ya'll for the helpful replies. I should have added to the original post, that we are on the Dave Ramsey plan, and have been for almost a year now. If I can wait it out on the insert, we will be credit card debt free in January 2011, and will have our emergency fund in a few weeks after that. If I can wait, I can really do the insert first class next year. I guess you could call me a cheapskate, but we have worked hard to get to his point financially.

I don't know if I should start another thread, so, here goes.

What could I do in the mean-time if I want to wait on the insert to maximize my existing setup? Is a fireback worth anything?

Thanks for the fan suggestion. We have a 52" ceiling fan in the fireplace room just a few feet from the hearth.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

I've been a lurker for a few weeks now and decided to register and offer my vote of support after reading your post.

I'm on the Dave Ramsey plan as well and discovered yesterday my "glorious" heat pump has failed; just a day after my wife delivered twins at the hospital, and just as an odd single-digit cold spell hits my area. Thankfully I've got an old Timberline woodstove in the basement as a backup! (burning as I type...)

I can feel your financial pain and desire to get out of debt as quickly as possible. Good luck to you, and I hope you find a solution to your heating needs!

 

[jharkin]

Your fireplace is smoking because your flue is too small.

There are tables that masons use to size the firebox and the flue. For any given size firebox, there is a minimum combination of flue cross section and height you need to ensure proper draft. I looked up the tables online and for flue of 13x9 with a typical height of around 20ft, the max firebox opening is somewhere in the neighborhood of 30x24 - significantly smaller than your fireplace.


you have 2 options:

#1 get that insert (great idea that you wont regret)

#2 reduce the size of your firebox opening. This can be done by laying one to two courses of brick on the firebox floor for example.


You can look at a table of sample firebox and flue sizing combination's here http://www.askthebuilder.com/B110_Fireplace_Design_Dimensions.shtml
This is derived from (broken link removed to http://www.gobrick.com/BIA/technotes/t19b.htm)

 

[krex1010]

Nothing wrong with having a little cheapskate in ya. If everyone was a little more careful with there money then i think this country would be in better shape. But anyway back to your fireplace, as was mentioned by others if you want to make do until you get your insert and save some money on heating then I would say stop burning in your fireplace, really. The heat you are generating with your heat pump is getting sucked right up your chimney when you burn that fireplace. Burning in an open fireplace is fine for ambiance and atmosphere but is counterproductive when it comes to heating your home. Save the firewood you have for special occasions, or for power outages, or for when you get your insert.

 

[jtb51b]

Have you thought about buying used? I understand the tax credit ideas but if you can buy an insert for a few bills and a liner for a few more then you will be money ahead by the time you get the CC's payed off..

Jason