New Home Construction and Stove Design

[pka45]

Hi all,

I've been reading and taking your advice for years, but I am getting ready to start a new project that I can't find answers to and I hope you can help. I am getting ready to build a new home for my family and want to build it with a proper wood stove setup from the start. I want a stove in the corner, and am planning on a Englander Madison. My questions are related to the pipe/chimney.

I'd like to run black pipe from the stove to the ceiling, but I'd also like to vent the pipe as close to the corner of the ceiling as possible; my home will be 2 stories, and I'd like to have the chase upstairs extend into the room (a bedroom) as little as possible. I know that I'll be using Class A through the second floor and attic, so I know I only need 2" of clearance around the 8" OD of the pipe there. BUT, what is the best way to safely get black pipe (single or double-wall) from the stove to the ceiling penetration that is set in the corner while still meeting clearances? I understand double-wall needs 6". Do I need to use double wall straight up from the stove for a few feet, then Class A elbows and pipe to get tighter into the corner (sounds pricey!)? Does Class A come in black (I haven't found any)?

On a related note, and I have a call in to my county inspector, but if I were to frame that corner of the house with steel studs on the first floor, and insulate with rock wool instead of fiberglass since it's an exterior wall, then hang backerboard on the interior (or fire-rated drywall), would that be considered noncombustible and thus allow me to reduce my clearances for the stove and the pipe?

Lastly, would you advise a 45-degree placement, or standard? I can reduce the clearance footprint slightly by placing the stove front facing parallel with the wall instead of a 45, but would like feedback since that also somewhat restricts the view of the fire.

Thank you so much for the help. I want to do this right the first time!

Pete

 

[Rearscreen]

If I'm understanding this, you are going to pop out the roof close to the eve? If so, I'd rethink that.

 

[pka45]

If I'm understanding this, you are going to pop out the roof close to the eve? If so, I'd rethink that.

Yes, that's the plan. Can you please explain why that might not be a good idea? That's something I had not heard before. The roof will have 18" overhangs but I was planning on the chimney coming out just inside of that. Thank you for your time.

 

[Rearscreen]

At least here in Vt it would be a bigger problem with ice damming and all, do you know how high up you have to go once you exit the roof?

 

[pka45]

Ah, thanks--not something I had considered. I'm not sure it would be much of an issue here in Southeastern VA, but will have to check on that. I'm planning on going 2' above the roof within 10', so the roof pitch of 6/12 means I'll have to go 7' above the roofline.

 

[peakbagger]

I got my "free wood boiler" from a house that had a add on chimney down near the bottom of the roof. The front of the stove was black from puff back out the door. Yes there are codes for how far the top of the stack needs to be from the roof but its just making the best out of a bad situation. If you are doing a new house why compromise? A stack that discharges near the ridgepole and run through the interior of the house is the way to go. Anytime there is sloped roof near by a stack outlet there can be weird turbulent conditions that will arise which will make the stove hard to start because of poor draft. It may not happen all the time as its related to the wind speed and angle the wind is approaching the house from. This goes away when you get the stack out an above the ridgepole.

 

[pka45]

I got my "free wood boiler" from a house that had a add on chimney down near the bottom of the roof. The front of the stove was black from puff back out the door. Yes there are codes for how far the top of the stack needs to be from the roof but its just making the best out of a bad situation. If you are doing a new house why compromise? A stack that discharges near the ridgepole and run through the interior of the house is the way to go. Anytime there is sloped roof near by a stack outlet there can be weird turbulent conditions that will arise which will make the stove hard to start because of poor draft. It may not happen all the time as its related to the wind speed and angle the wind is approaching the house from. This goes away when you get the stack out an above the ridgepole.

Thanks for the advice. I just can't find space in our floorplan for a stove located nearer the center of the house, and I assume that running elbows and turns in the chimney might actually make things worse that the pipe exiting down near the eaves? (Not to mention expensive and space-eating!) Also, the top of the chimney will be only 1' below the ridgeline that is 16' away from it...

Please keep the tips/thoughts coming, thanks.

 

[Rearscreen]

So with 7 feet you will need bracing that goes back to somewhere mid point on the roof in 2 places making a triangle of sorts. Problem is being on the corner that isn't possible. In my previous house that I built I put the stack close to the ridge (as mentioned the way to go) and on the second floor (class A) it was inside a closet (metal cage to keep clothes etc away) and I think I had a louvered door. The closet kept the pipe out of site and the clothes were warm.

 

[pka45]

Interesting. I'll keep brainstorming that pipe location, thanks.

 

[Rearscreen]

My personal brainstorming involves a hoppy beer(s), sitting and staring at the problem, going to bed then for some strange reason the answer becomes apparent the next day.

 

[Rearscreen]

Problem is being on the corner that isn't possible.

I'm going to quote myself. I guess it would be possible, geeze who would have thought a rocket can land backwards. But it can.

 

[bholler]

I'm going to quote myself. I guess it would be possible, geeze who would have thought a rocket can land backwards. But it can.

It is possible we have done plenty of them. I agree i would rather see it at the ridge but it can work fine at the bottom to. It doesnt look very good unless you build a chase for it

 

[pka45]

So after some calculations (but unfortunately no beer!) I figured that the center of the pipe, if run straight up from the stove with normal clearance to combustibles, exits the roof 46" from each edge of the roof -- I believe that will be enough to attach the roof brace; however, running the pipe straight up does put the center of it 22" x 22" off the walls in the corner of an upstairs bedroom, so with chase it will take up a 28" x 28" square of real estate in that corner...

I need a beer.

 

[MAD777]

I'm so glad this came up. I need to install a stove with the same constraints and will be following closely. Thank you for the math!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[snaple4]

Any chance you could provide us with the layout of your house? Many times we may see ways to make small modifications to allow a centrally located unit. We have to do this all the time for the HVAC equipment when the engineer designs it in the attic but it has to be in the conditioned space.

 

[pka45]

Absolutely! Here are first and second floors, with the stove currently located in the lower left corner.


My current thinking is to maintain the stove placement as is, run double-wall from the stove to within 6" clearance of the corner at the ceiling with two 45-degree elbows, then chase it straight up through the upstairs bedroom as drawn. That will leave 30" of roof on either side of the outside of the chimney where it comes through, while only eating ~14"x14" corner of the bedroom for the chase. Would love to hear thoughts/opinions, thanks.

 

[blades]

Your ceiling transition from the black pipe to the class is going to require about a 14" hole through the ceiling, double wall black pipe requires min 6" from combustible surface. Stove in a corner I think the minimum is 14" from center of flue connection to each wall ( and frankly that is too close with out facing the wall with something noncombustible. Some of the class a pipes with solid insulation between the walls + the 2" clearance would be a 10" dia area. and of course you will wiggle numbers a bit when installing the transition and insulation heat shied at the first floor and again at the second floor ceiling depending on rafters & joists and such. As you are starting from scratch you could design a chase system outside of the house but included within the home envelope this likely would be the best way to accomplish your goals. ( in simple terms a bump out alcove for the stove/ flue.)

 

[xman23]

Pete, your corner, looks like the right place for the stove. See mine to the left. My pipe goes straight up, single wall to the ceiling box. The Class A out the roof. From your drawings you look to tight to the wall. check the stove clearances. I have a rear stove heat shield, and the back of the stove and the pipe is 18 inches from the side walls. My roof has 1 foot overhangs, so the chimney is about 3 ft off the edge. My chimney goes through 5/ 12 side porch roof so I have access to the chimney for topdown cleaning. The chimney is at the back of the house so it dosen't look bad.

A straight chimney is best. Based on the required stove clearances layout the exact stove nd chinney location. Make sure the rafter framing is adjusted for the chimney.

 

[cahaak]

I faced this issue myself in a house I built some years ago. I would really encourage you to look closely at putting the stove closer to centerline of the roof (actually just a couple feet off center). It is much easier to run the flue this way, much easier to clean later.... - there are a whole host of advantages. In addition, the stove will sit more in the center of a wall in the home and you will get much better heat distribution for your home.

Based on your floor plans, it looks like you could run the flue up through a boxed chase in one of the second floor closets. It doesn't take up much space there and can be worked into the design of the closet. It is hard to see since the plans are small when I open them up. The interior of your chase needs to be 12" x 12" + as noted, but you can frame it with 2 x 2s (builder can) so you are looking at ~14" x 14" of lost space. Be a bit flexible with your plans if you can. Ideally, you would site it right in the center of the house for maximum effectiveness, but again, that is not always possible.

 

[Rearscreen]

I faced this issue myself in a house I built some years ago. I would really encourage you to look closely at putting the stove closer to centerline of the roof (actually just a couple feet off center). It is much easier to run the flue this way, much easier to clean later.... - there are a whole host of advantages. In addition, the stove will sit more in the center of a wall in the home and you will get much better heat distribution for your home.

Based on your floor plans, it looks like you could run the flue up through a boxed chase in one of the second floor closets. It doesn't take up much space there and can be worked into the design of the closet. It is hard to see since the plans are small when I open them up. The interior of your chase needs to be 12" x 12" + as noted, but you can frame it with 2 x 2s (builder can) so you are looking at ~14" x 14" of lost space. Be a bit flexible with your plans if you can. Ideally, you would site it right in the center of the house for maximum effectiveness, but again, that is not always possible.

Pretty much what I posted earlier. You have a huge advantage now for the heart of your home. You can change things to fit the heart in the center.

 

[pka45]

Yes, I appreciate those tips; however, I cannot find a space to place the stove downstairs that does not require a massive overhaul of the plans, and I'm not willing to do that. The stove will not be our primary source of heat (but it will be used fairly often.) The more thought I give it, the more I think it will have to stay in place though.

 

[bholler]

Yes, I appreciate those tips; however, I cannot find a space to place the stove downstairs that does not require a massive overhaul of the plans, and I'm not willing to do that. The stove will not be our primary source of heat (but it will be used fairly often.) The more thought I give it, the more I think it will have to stay in place though.

And it will work fine there. You will have to check with your local code guys about buildingbthat corner with steel studs and cement board. If they will let you do that it would certainly reduce your clearances. If not you will just have to push it out a little. And yes you can get black class a chimney olympia can powder coat their ventis pipe in a variety of colors. But that wont change the stove clearances any.

 

[pka45]

Thanks. I've ordered Selkirk black double-wall for the stove pipe, with 2-45 elbows to get it into within 6" of each wall in the corner, and then am using Supervent class A straight up from there. Might have to buff the sheen off that shiny stainless chimney above the roofline, or maybe risk getting blinded by it in the sun!