new home with fireplace: stove vs. insert, plus site questions.

[Adahn]

The fireplace opening is 27"w x 28"h x 20.5"d.
The granite slab 'hearth' is 34"w x 16"d and 5" off the floor (which is engineered wood).

The fireplace/chimney is at the center of a ~2000sq.ft. 2 story wood-framed victorian. There is an open flue.
The space in front of the hearth is limited and would encroach upon traffic flow from the living room and foyer.

The chimney sweep I brought over to check the site mentioned he had a VC Intrepid to sell me (used only 3 times, I don't know if it's a cat or non-cat version) that would fit the FP opening. He advised against an insert because of the effort in removing it for yearly cleaning.

I had originally had my eye on the Woodstock Fireview, but it appears too large for the space.
I was thinking it would be nice to somehow take advantage of the brick thermal mass that's in place.
Suggestions? Advice? How much of the floor in front of the hearth would I have to tile?

 

[elkimmeg]

The VC non cat Intrepids were discontinued by VC One the could not make them clean enough for the next phase requirements of the EPA regulations second their performance paled
compared to the cat versions Third it preformed worse that the non cat Aspen model VC introduced The Aspen out preformed the non cat intrepid with a smaller fire box
#4 VC never sold enough volume to make it worthwhile to continue the Non Cat Intrepid.. When Goose and I did the tour at VC, VC honestly admitted stove models that turned out to be dogs like the non cat Intrepid and sevile

On the other hand My opinion The Cat Intrepid is one of the best preforming stoves in that size fire box range. It probably out preforms them at providing long even burn times,
Not a small margin while these non cat stoves are loaded ever 3 or 4 hours productive heat is 6 hours a load in a cat intrepid

 

[webbie]

Of course, we cannot see the whole space or heat loss (or your wood pile).......

So the stove you end up with has to fit how you intend to use it.
If you want an overnight burn, you'll want to look at other models other than the Intrepid....

I do agree that a fireplace like yours would do best with a stove as opposed to an insert - but there are lots of choices. Consider how you intend to burn, log length and other factors into your decision.

Woodstock has smaller models, but they don't look exactly the same. Lots of woodstock users on the forum, so you can compare notes with them about the size area they have, climate zone, etc.

 

[Adahn]

Don't have a woodpile yet...just moved in. I probably won't burn overnight (bedrooms upstairs). Home is on Long Island in NY for reference. It has a new 80% efficiency natural gas fired boiler with forced air. I'm thinking weekend/evening use when I'm home. The 'missus will definitely not want to futz with it.

 

[Adahn]

There are also a den and kitchen on the first floor (from the first picture, the kitchen is the opening towards the back and the den around the right). All doorways are open; ceilings are 10'.

I'm not sure but I think that brick is a reface over the existing 1893 fireplace. The house was redone last year.

 

[jtp10181]

FYI the only reason you would have to "remove" an insert to clean the flue is if you don't do a full liner. Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[Adahn]

A question on inserts:
Assuming I put a full liner in for an insert, could I do without the (noisy) fans? Since the FP is centrally located in the home, the insert should dump its heat into the masonry, which will radiate it slowly back into the house from all sides (similar in theory to a masonry FP, but without the extra channels), in theory anyway.

 

[jtp10181]

Its always nice to have the fan to circulate extra heat I think. Even if you get the fan you don't always need to run it.

 

[nshif]

Something else to think about, the hearth is only 16" deep and will most likly need to be extended. New code is 18" and whatever you put in is likly to stick out of the fireplace some making it to short for even the old code.

 

[Adahn]

Assuming a relatively shallow Regency I1100 or 1200 insert, would I only have to enlarge the hearth a few inches, or will I need to tile/brick line the wood floor further out as well?

The specs for the I2400 seem to fit that FP opening, but it would protrude further out and need an even larger hearth.

 

[begreen]

This seems like an odd design for a fireplace. Perhaps it makes more sense to see it in context. Have you thought about how furniture is going to be placed in this area? One thought I had (this may be too radical) was the possibility of blocking up the current off axis fireplace and then installing a new hearth and stove in front of the flat central face of the chimney. That would allow a larger stove, maybe a Woodstock Fireview? You'd need to install a liner and make a new opening for the flue, but visually, this might be a bit more pleasing?

 

[nshif]

Assuming a relatively shallow Regency I1100 or 1200 insert, would I only have to enlarge the hearth a few inches, or will I need to tile/brick line the wood floor further out as well?

The specs for the I2400 seem to fit that FP opening, but it would protrude further out and need an even larger hearth.

You will need floor protection out 18" min from the front door of the stove/ insert. Depending on the floor protection requirment ( R value ) you may need to remove the entire hearth and rebuild it.

 

[hilly]

A question on inserts:
Assuming I put a full liner in for an insert, could I do without the (noisy) fans? Since the FP is centrally located in the home, the insert should dump its heat into the masonry, which will radiate it slowly back into the house from all sides (similar in theory to a masonry FP, but without the extra channels), in theory anyway.

This is what I did with my insert last year (central chimney, large thermal mass) and it worked well, but the upstairs got really warm. I thought I'd try a fan out this year and on low it is quieter than the fish tank.

 

[Adahn]

I have a quote pending on that very lightly used non-cat Intrepid and am also considering the Hearthstone Tribute, both mounted as in this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9645/

comments?

 

[elkimmeg]

I can not recommend the non cat Intrepid. It just does not produce enough heat and short burn times ,unless it is too good a deal to pass up.

Go with the Hearthstone Tribute.

 

[Rhone]

Well, one doesn't normally put stoves inside fireplaces. It was those who put stoves inside fireplaces and went about fixing the problems of doing such that those stoves mutated, warped, and advanced over the years to become today's inserts. With that said, in your case with the chimney in the center of the house & 2 stories you avoid the problems it's stoves put in outside chimneys that are no-no. So, you can do it but, the Tribute is a tiny stove.

 

[Adahn]

Did some more digging and measuring and visited two shops, one local, one a short drive.
There does not seem to be enough top clearance to fit the top vent Tribute.
I had a look at the VC Aspen (noncat), and the VC small winterwarm insert (cat) and the Regency I1200 (noncat) and the Lopi Answer (non cat).
The 'missus prefers the look of the insert.

There was mention on this forum that the WW line was going to be revamped. I was planning on going non-cat anyway, but what is the word on that?

One measurement I forgot to post: the centerline for the 8" (steel lined) round flue is 15" back from the front of the fireplace/firebox. The back of the firebox is only 14" wide.

 

[Adahn]

I have a Morso 1710 insert ordered.
http://www.morsoe.com/us/Products/Inserts/1710/Model_1710/Morsø+1710.htm

I'll have to do a custom insert, given the corner to the left of the firebox (the stock inserts are too wide).

I'll post pics when it's done.

 

[Mr Whitfield]

Pellet less work, easy for the wife, No wood piles etc.
Pellets Rock.....

 

[Adahn]

Here's the 1710 in action.
Time to get a decent woodpile.

Suggestions for the blank space directly above the insert? The wife wants a mantel, which will have to be about 29" above the insert.

 

[jtp10181]

Don't they make a surround panel to fill that gap?

 

[BrotherBart]

Congrats on the new stove.

 

[Adahn]

Don't they make a surround panel to fill that gap?

Yes, but that angle on the left precludes the use of the factory surround. I'll have to get something fabricated/custom.

 

[begreen]

Congratulations, it looks great. How's it heating so far?

You can have a plate of 24 or 22 ga sheetmetal cut to fit. Paint it with black stove paint and attach it to the backside of the upper stove flange. Or use some extruded metal grille there, painted black. That will allow any captive heat to come out.

 

[jtp10181]

We get the stock panels cut down by a sheet metal shop all the time for customers. Works out great.