New Jotul 118

[jeffee]

I really appreciate this forum -- this is my first post, and I'm an ultra-newbie.

I'm getting a woodstove and prefab metal chimney installed next week (straight up through roof), and was thinking of going with a FC3B but the 118 caught my eye in the shop. The things I like about it are that it's a bit bigger, it would fit the area I'm planning on putting it better (I probably wouldn't need wall protection), and it seems like it is much easier to load wood into it. I also like the styling, but that isn't as important to me as functionality. I realize there's no ash pan and that makes it a tough call for me.

I have a propane furnace, but I want to use it as little as possible. I can't afford the propane any more (plus I love real heat as opposed to blown warm air). My house is a small milled log home, about 900 or 1000 square feet. The only insulation is on the roof, but walls are just the logs. The house has been chinked on the outside which really cut down on drafts. It is a 1.5 story, with 2 small 'rooms' in the upper story that are really basically lofts. The roof is 45 degree pitched (steep), and so the square footage is a bit deceiving -- this house is like a box (first story, open layout) with a triangle on top -- and there's an addition maybe 150 sq. feet (included in the total figure) - There's a regular staircase going to the upper story and quite a few big windows.

I'm looking for a versatile stove that is easy to operate. Sometimes I may be burning it continuously and other times I may not. The 118 just seemed more solid built, and that opening on the FC3B sort of scared me, I don't want to have to fiddle around with the splits to get them into the stove.

Blah blah Any advice or comments would be much appreciated! And yes I did a search on these 2 stoves and read as much as I could! Thanks

 

[myzamboni]

I love my F3CB, but I'm not a 24/7 burner. It is easy to load, and the ashpan makes super easy to manage ash.

Good luck with you decision.

 

[Gooserider]

Jotul makes good stoves, though I have to admit I don't have their model line memorized IMHO ashpans are nice, but not essential, there are lots of ways to handle a stove w/o an ashpan, and some designs are such that the folks that have them don't use them... Others are enthusiastic about theirs, but I wouldn't make it a major decision factor.

One thing I would consider of prime importance since you are looking at using wood as a prime heat source is firebox size - bigger is better to some extent. You can build a small fire in a big box if you only need a little heat, but you can't put a big fire in a little box. The firebox size also will determine your burn time, a small stove may be a good heater and be efficient, but you are NOT going to get a long burn time out of it, no matter what. If you want a long (i.e. overnight) burn time you are best off looking at something with a 2.5 to 3 cu. ft. firebox at a minimum. If the 118 meets that size range, go for it.

Gooserider

 

[Corie]

I just want to supplement what Goose said by saying that while bigger generally is better, there are some stoves with large fireboxes that don't perform very good will small wood loads. If you buy too big a stove and end up only building tiny fires in it, you will be disappointed with the performance.

I think the 118 is a great stove, but don't have much real world experience with it. From what I've heard some say the low baffle height in the rear makes it difficult to fully load the firebox, especially when a deep coal bed has been established.

When I've seen it burning though, it was really neat to see the secondary flames sneaking out of the tubes which run parallel to the length of the firebox- Definitely a different look as opposed to the regular tube style secondary combustion.

 

[jpl1nh]

I think Jotul makes excellent products. The 118 is a cool looking stove with the "cigar burn" principle. Nice throw back in styling with modern technology. The log length it handles is a nice feature too. From your description of your house and your location, I would expect it would handle the vast majority of your heating needs, though it's possible in the coldest weather that you might need to supplement with your furnace. IMHO an 8 hour burn rate will get you through the night, with good hardwood packed well you should have ample coals to restart easily in the AM. Definately a better choice for you than the FC3B. Because of the log cabin style home and it's inherent lack of wall insulation plus the window space you mention, if you wanted to be sure of always meeting all your heating needs, then you would need to look at the Oslo. I think that the 118 will take over at least 85 to 90% of your heat bill though.

 

[jeffee]

Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate the info. It's a tough decision for me ....

 

[jpl1nh]

Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate the info. It's a tough decision for me ....

LOL choosing a stove always is, you always want to get just the right one. The good news is that most stoves on the market today perform very well.

 

[precaud]

Do a search for "F118" and "Black Bear". As you'll read, I'm one who would steer you away from it... from a day-to-day use standpoint, I'd rather have an F3. The F118 is an old design (with lots of sentimental appeal) with new technology grafted into it. It's not an optimum stove geometry IMO. And keep in mind that it radiates mostly to the sides. Stoves with larger frontal area are more suited to most living situations.

 

[begreen]

I think you might want to broaden your search. If Jotul, I would consider putting the F400 in there. The F3CB won't give you an extended burn. Don't worry about the door size, you'll get used to it. There's also the Morsos. A 2110 or 7110 should work.

If you want small and don't want to deal with the door, look at the Vermont Castings Intrepid. This is a top-loading cat stove, which though smallish, gives it extended burn time. It's a good little heater.

There are also smaller soapstone stoves like Woodstock Palladian that would work. And there's a castiron clad steel stove, the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 that would work very well.

(broken link removed to http://www.morsoe.com/us/Products/Stoves/)

(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=138)

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/pages/wood_stoves.html)

(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/product_alderleaT5.php)

 

[reganp]

I have used a 118 for the past 28 years as a primary source of heat in a very cold area of NY. It is a fabulous stove. I have burned out the inner side baffles a few times over the years but it is one heating son of a gun. It cranks out the heat very quickly.
Alas I am resigned to the fact that it may not last forever - therefore I have been looking at the new 188 version. I wonder if it pumps out the heat as well as the older model. My old 118 will hold a fire for over 10 hours! It is a breeze to start and the cigarette design is no joke, it rips!
I would love to hear from anyone who could compare the two models.

 

[precaud]

I would love to hear from anyone who could compare the two models.

There's no comparison. Entirely different combustion designs. I too had a 118 for a couple years back in the 80's and loved it, but it is what we now refer to as a 'smoke monster.' Those smouldering overnight 'cigar burns' were, as the marketing name suggests, largely flameless events...

 

[reganp]

Great, but how does the heat output compare- new and old 118????

 

[precaud]

You won't get the long burns you are so fond of. The new one burns the whole load of wood at once. Since you can't put large diameter pieces in, it burns hot and quick.

Read this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4588/#48421

 

[reganp]

that's very interesting. What would you recommend that would be comparable to the old 118 as far as heat output goes but also has the ability to damper down and hold a fire overnight? Perhaps a couple of recommendations , jotul or others???
Great info, thanks!

 

[precaud]

For cast iron - in the Jotul line, I'd say an F400 or above (others may chime in here, I have no experience with this model.) In the Morso line, the 3610 is excellent. One of the guys in the link given above replaced his F118 with the 3610 and was very pleased.
For steel stoves, there are many that will do it, maybe others will give their recommendation.

 

[Angus]

The Jotul 118 , along with the 602 are the highest selling stoves worldwide.Your making a good choice with a Jotul, if you want to burn 24/7, ie dont want to relight the fire each day, then the 118 is the answer.
Logs should be split narrower so as to dry better and not put tar up your chimney, so the balance of long log length and slightly narrower is the way to go.
I have a 118 and a 602, like you i dont want to use carbon fuels, and for 24/7 burning these 2 Jotuls are the best

The 118 is 145 kg, thats a whole lot of stove, and its a strong and well built.

 

[precaud]

... if you want to burn 24/7, ie dont want to relight the fire each day, then the 118 is the answer.

Make that was the answer... the old 118 would smoulder that long... the new F118 won't. The old 118, as fond as we are of it, is not a conscientious choice for anyone living in populated areas.

I recently drove to Colorado, and was stunned by how many homes I saw in small CO and NM towns or rural areas with thick streams of smoke pouring out of their chimneys. And that's what a damped-down 118 looks like from the outside.

 

[Angus]

Hello there, yes you could be right, but we do have differant climatic conditions from you.
Scotland gets around 25% of all the wind that comes to Europe, so it s a very windy country, this along with the cooler climate means that our chimneys (if well lined like ours is) have a tremendous pull, I admit you have to burn it hot for the cleanburn to kick in, but our 118 burns pretty clean and we have it slowed down for a longer burn time.
I had the old 118 with the moose on the side, when I moved house, I bought the new 118, the older one definately was better for burning like a cigar from the rear of the stove to the front, but the new one works just aswell and its far more heavy duty and retails at a very reasonable price.
How do you know all these smokey chimneys have 118 s beneath them?

 

[precaud]

How do you know all these smokey chimneys have 118 s beneath them?

I didn't say they did... I was making a similitude (is that a word?)

Yes, new F118 does burn clean.

 

[jeffee]

Thanks for all the feedback; Yes I'm going for the 118. Hopefully next week I'll be burning!

 

[Angus]

Hello Precaud,
yes, you did say that, my mistake. I take your point onboard and burning any stove with the draught completly shut is going to smoke. I never really slow mine right down, unless we have a howling gail, which is quite often.
Is New Mexico in the US?
Back to the 118, I dont have a problem with an overnight burn, sure the fire is out in the morning but its just a case of raking the ash and shoving another stick on, and shes off again.
Angus

 

[begreen]

This is a perennial question - what is an overnight burn? Wood stove manufacturers often want it to be considered that there is a spark left in the ashes which allows, with fine kindling, a restart of the fire. But in practical terms, an overnight burn should mean that the stove is till producing - meaningful - heat at 4am in the morning and you don't have crawl out of bed, trip over the cat, and stumble in the dark to reload the stove. So when I say the F400 has a burn time of about 4-6 hrs. I mean the stove is still way too hot to touch at the end of that period. Based on that criteria, I never had an overnight burn in a 602. Great stove, I really loved ours, but small firebox.

 

[Angus]

Hello Begreen,
yes, I got my terminoligy wrong, I ve had differant stoves, Jotuls included that will not leave a few burning embers for any great period whereas the 602 will leave embers for 24 hours, sometimes, but over night burn is not correct, sorry about that.
Due to the easy re-lighting and the easy continual 24/7 use, I woudl say its a 24/7 stove but not an overniter,
Angus