New Member, Greenwood Observations..

[GENECOP]

Hi everyone, happy to have found this Forum, just wanted to share a couple of thoughts regarding our Greenwood 100.....I am a builder and contractor (down state NY) got the idea about 3 years ago to incorporate the Greenwood 100 into my Buderus Oil Fired Boiler...I am on year 5 of a large scale Reno on our 4000 Sqft house....(Wife is a Saint)...this past week is the first week the Greenwood has been used to heat Via our radiant.......I went through one winter with a cieling hung 32000 BTu Garage type Blower hung from my living room cieling....the Greenwood had to be fed a lot, that type of unit is anything but efficient...
A couple of things to note about this part of the country that I am in...THERE ARE NOOO WOOD BOILERS, and very few people that know anything about them......the people around here that I have been working for for 30 years want nothing to do with anything that involves extra work, they have the $ for oil or gas and just want to hit a button , actually they would rather have their housekeeper hit the button....I tell you this because the learning curve has been steep, I work with solid Plumbers, Electricians Etc,,,,and my main plumber designed the system but he used his general knowledge because he had no specific knowledge of wood boilers.....I am happy to report all is well, third full day of burning, nice white interior, very little emission, no smoke as long as I open the door to load when the damper is open...we have had some 16deg nights, I get about 6 hrs when the Greenwood is wide open....so far, I Love it.....
My reason for joining are twofold, one to thank you all for being here, I have read a lot and good solid non bias info is hard to come by....secondly I have read about many unsatisfied Greenwood owners.....it's unfortunate but I think most of the problems stem from poor install and design.....some people come on and say...." we had it professionally installed" that in my opinion means nothing, my town is full of "PROFFESSIONALS " that I would not let wash my car....These installs as you know are all site specific, very finicky, and for a very simple principle can go off the rails very quickly......we may have gotten lucky, the stars may have lined up, but so far this unit is great, it's becoming an obsession, checking temps, in the basement, out to the shed, load a massive round, middle of the night, I really love it......my oil gauge has not moved, and I am heating with wood.....All is good in the world.....Thanks Again. Maybe I will try to get some photos up.... G

 

[Pat53]

Report back in March about what your heat exchanger looks like.

 

[GENECOP]

60 gallon Super Store.....

 

[GENECOP]

 

[BoilerMan]

Welcome to the forums! Do you have any type of return protection for the boiler? You mentioned radiant, is it a wet (in some type of slab) or a dry system (suspended under subfloor).

I totally agree with you about the "professional" quote as well. As one myself, I've seen MANY very poor installs by pros, but I've seen many very poor/dangerous installs by homeowners, so it's a double edged sward.

GW/Seaton designs need dry wood and hot return temps to work reasonably well. The biggest flaw in the design is the total lack of a sealed fireside system. The skins need to be removed for one dirty awful HX cleaning. If kept hot they do work pretty well, let them idle and forget it.............worst boiler out there to idle (not that any should).

TS

 

[GENECOP]

I will eventually get some more photos up......radiant is in concrete, I am a Concrete Fabricator, countertops, Floors, etc....I am just now running the system less than wide open, we have been hovering around 33Deg most of the day....I have a wireless Redi Check strapped to the feed and return on the back of the Greenwood......the sweet balanced numbers seem to be 153 out 142 return, I never let the return go under 130, this seems to keep things White and Hot. I just settled on this 130 return number, I experimented with lower but I sometimes would need to begin a reignition process, At 130 return I can put in one or two split pieces and a Large round, 15 minutes later my numbers are back to the 150's out.....how do those numbers seem to you? Thanks for the Welcome..

 

[BoilerMan]

The general accepted lowest return temp for any wood boiler is 140, I like to see at least 150 coming back to the boiler for extended times.

Keep us posted, and we do love pics!

I did my own slab 2200 sq.ft. and let me tell you, I have lots of respect for anyone who does that for a living. Not a fan of concrete work....

TS

 

[Pat53]

Welcome to the forums! Do you have any type of return protection for the boiler? You mentioned radiant, is it a wet (in some type of slab) or a dry system (suspended under subfloor).

I totally agree with you about the "professional" quote as well. As one myself, I've seen MANY very poor installs by pros, but I've seen many very poor/dangerous installs by homeowners, so it's a double edged sward.

GW/Seaton designs need dry wood and hot return temps to work reasonably well. The biggest flaw in the design is the total lack of a sealed fireside system. The skins need to be removed for one dirty awful HX cleaning. If kept hot they do work pretty well, let them idle and forget it.............worst boiler out there to idle (not that any should).

TS

I added 500 gallons storage 2 years ago with my Seaton and that has helped a lot as far as keeping the HX cleaner. I had always set my return temp at about 140F before the unit would re-fire. This year, I tried 160F and it has made an even bigger difference in keeping the HX very clean. I'm burning mostly 4 year old red oak now.

And as Boilerman has stated, DEFINITELY NOT the unit to let smolder and idle for long periods of time. I'm expecting my annual HX cleaning to be much easier this year, that's the good news. The bad news is that I may have to replace my top skin, starting to develop small holes all over the center area. Easy to replace, but still will ending costing at least $50 for the materials. Might be able to get another year out of it first.

Pat

 

[GENECOP]

Got me thinking about the Temps......I have been using the Redi Check to monitor my Feed and return. As you know the Sensing Rod just lays across the top of the pipe under the insulation, I also taped the insulation in that area to increase the pressure so I have good contact from pipe to sensor....My numbers have been around 153 feed 143 return, seems like a nice hot, smooth burn at those numbers.....then I got thinking how accurate is the Redi Check, Duhhhh, I checked the Tridicater Gauge, my Feed is a solid 160, so there is a 7 Deg difference. My new numbers are Feed 160, return 150...., Should I be Happy with those numbers? BTW I am heating a 60 Gallon Super Store and another 57 Gallons through my Buderus Indirect....Thanks....

 

[flyingcow]

I've seen one of these locally. Works good with a big heat load.

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

Been burning and keeping a close eye on everything for the last month, a couple of days ago I started to get a strange smell from the Greenwood....almost like oil!!...figured maybe it was the wood, new batch, just keep an eye on it I thought. I have also been closely watching the water temps in-out....last night water temp went up 2Degrees higher than ever before, also my water temps where holding steadier, the house was warmer, my burn times where lasting longer, I was happy, but confused. So this morning I decided to let the fire burn down and get a closer look at things...Now let's back track two weeks ago,, after staring and obsessing about how this thing works for the last month I noticed that while I was burning pretty clean, there was still good heat going up the chimney. I started to think that if I installed a damper in the flue and closed it at just the right time, I would lock the heat in, so I ordered an inline damper from Amazon...Now back to this morning, I get up on my roof 8AM before the snow, approach my custom made concrete chimney cap with Stainless Steel Mesh....as I get close I realize the mesh is clogged up pretty good, I lift my cap, inspect the flue, not bad, but the mesh, Totally clogged....(working like a damper)..I cleaned things up, swept the chimney, fired it up again, no smell, Great draft....this confirmed the usefulness of the damper, I think it will really extend my burn times and increase my efficiency....will post again after the install and post a few more photos...it's a learning experience for sure...

 

[Fred61]

That tells me you're sending crap out your chimney. For every grain that got caught in your screen thousands more went into the air. A damper will more than likely cause the fire to burn slower albeit colder and put more crap out the stack.

 

[GENECOP]

That tells me you're sending crap out your chimney. For every grain that got caught in your screen thousands more went into the air. A damper will more than likely cause the fire to burn slower albeit colder and put more crap out the stack.

The caps I built are concrete with stainless steel mesh with 3/8" holes, it's a little tight, I also have been burning off some of my older uglier stuff first, I only smoke a little at ignition, if the mesh had larger holes it would not have clogged so easy....the flue pipe had a very light coat after 5-6 weeks of 24-7 burning....

 

[GENECOP]

Also the closing of the damper has to happen only after most of the initial burn is done, not while full burn, there should be no smoke when the damper is closed, at least that is the plan.....

 

[maple1]

Have you actually measured your flue temps? Preferably with a good internal probe? Until you do you can't really be sure on the heat up the pipe thing. And have you measured your flue draft? I think I would be very hesitant to go anything beyond using a barometric damper to maintain spec flue draft - the key damper on my old boiler would sometimes get moved a bit by wind gusts which led to unhappy things happening, either in the way of too much fire going up the pipe or smoke coming out the draft door. Have you investigated getting your draft fan to ramp down as the fire dies? Not sure on the possibilities there though.

Was the buildup on your screen actually creosote? No chance it was an ash/ice mix?

 

[GENECOP]

Have you actually measured your flue temps? Preferably with a good internal probe? Until you do you can't really be sure on the heat up the pipe thing. And have you measured your flue draft? I think I would be very hesitant to go anything beyond using a barometric damper to maintain spec flue draft - the key damper on my old boiler would sometimes get moved a bit by wind gusts which led to unhappy things happening, either in the way of too much fire going up the pipe or smoke coming out the draft door. Have you investigated getting your draft fan to ramp down as the fire dies? Not sure on the possibilities there though.

Was the buildup on your screen actually creosote? No chance it was an ash/ice mix?

Good Questions to get me thinking, thanks...regarding flue temps Greenwood states 250-350 Degree gasses exiting Fluepipe, this is confirmed Via a magnetic therm....My Draft inducer is wired into my damper door, open door, fan goes on, closed door, fan off....draft has been so good I usually manually turn fan off once the fire comes up to temp, less cycling (idling).,,the buildup on my screen was dark, very light and fine, I just ran a wire brush over the screen and it cleaned up with a couple of passes....does that sound like creosote?....

 

[GENECOP]

6" flue pipe, two 90,s out the back, then straight up and out the chimney with draft inducer...

 

[maple1]

Good Questions to get me thinking, thanks...regarding flue temps Greenwood states 250-350 Degree gasses exiting Fluepipe, this is confirmed Via a magnetic therm....My Draft inducer is wired into my damper door, open door, fan goes on, closed door, fan off....draft has been so good I usually manually turn fan off once the fire comes up to temp, less cycling (idling).,,the buildup on my screen was dark, very light and fine, I just ran a wire brush over the screen and it cleaned up with a couple of passes....does that sound like creosote?....

If it was black, it was creosote.

How tall is your chimney? Does it have a barometric damper? I'm suspecting you have too much chimney draft. Magnetic guages also read way low - when I'm burning, my probe guage reads around 200c. The magnetic right beside it reads 100c less. A Dywer Mark II Model 25 might be a good investment for you - along with a good internal probe. And likely a barometric damper. Does the manual say HOW flue temps should be measured?

 

[flyingcow]

I like the idea of you shutting off your fan to reduce cycling. Seems to me like a good move?

 

[GENECOP]

Here are a few condition photos

 

[GENECOP]

Cement chimney caps with SS mesh....single Is Boiler, double is FP and Oil fired boiler...three flues.

 

[GENECOP]

Front of unit

 

[GENECOP]

Rear