New Old Farmhouse Have Some ?s

[lavs4x4]

Hi Guys,

Great forum you have here, alot of great info.

My family and I just recently purchased an 1821 farmhouse which has been completely remodeled, insulated, vinyl sided, new windows, plumbing, electrical its all done. However, the house is good size 4300 sqft which includes a 1200sqft in law apartment. According to the seller of the home they cooked through 1900 gallons of oil last year, Ouch! Currently there is a newer pensotti and an older Essex wood/oil boiler (1983) which it listed as a back up unit. I have access to and endless supply of wood and would like to use the Essex as our primary heating source utilizing wood as much as possible. One issue with my current setup is both of the units use the same chimney and I been told this is not acceptable. What are my options here? Also I'm unsure of when the Essex was last used. I like the idea of being self sufficent and not have to worry about oil prices. Does anyone here have expirence with these Essex units? Will this be sufficent or am I barking up the wrong tree?

We were also thinking a pellet stove if the Essex is not up to the task. With the government rebates and everything it sounds like a good time to be in the market for a stove. I still don't like the idea of buying pellets and being at the mercy of pellet pricing though.

I guess I'm just looking for the best answer to my siutation without spending alot of cash. With cold weather coming I just want to be prepared and not freeze my with and daughter out of the house.

Thanks,
Frank

 

[tom in maine]

Hi Frank,
You are probably grandfathered on the two devices into the single flue in Maine.
Might check in with the local code person. I believe the code allows this if it was installed before 1998.
IS it installed before 1998 (nod, nod , wink, wink)? It probably is, given the devices you mentioned. I would suggest saying so!

As to the Essex, I think there are some threads here that have mentioned a contact for service parts. You should seek out a competent licensed solid fuel installer
who can look the unit over.

Might be some good heating bones here.
Tom

 

[lavs4x4]

Thanks for your help guys, I have tracked down a guy whom has alot of expierence with soild fuels, now I just have to convince him to come over and get this thing cranking. I guess I better start cutting some wood!

 

[OldDedHed]

Hi Frank:

Just wanted to caution you a bit about codes. First, inspectors I knew from the state fire marshal's office have a saying: "Your grandfather doesn't work here anymore". Grandfathering doesn't happen much anymore, and any town that allows it isn't following the code they have supposedly adopted.

Second, and more important, you really should ask your insurance company. Like them or not, if you go ahead with your plans and godforbid something happens, they are not going to pay you a dime if your installation isn't to their liking. And they usually follow the current code to the letter whether your town does or not. I have seen this happen and it's really sad--the homeowner who went "wink, wink" ended up losing everything.

The code used to allow two such appliances on the same flue if the flue was a certain size (memory says twice the size of the largest appliance vent), and the two appliances were spaced far enough apart on the flue. Plus the wood burning appliance had to be vented way above the oil burning appliance. But I think all of that went away with a code update.

I spent 20 years in the fire service and am a retired chief. I also used to do inspections for insurance companies. I'm not an expert by any means, but I know enough to get into trouble.

So just be careful. And remember, opinions on a web forum (including mine) are worth what you paid for them. Good luck and enjoy your new house!

 

[tom in maine]

FYI Some bureaucratic talk tp read along with lunch.

Nothing in there about Grandfathering


An Act To Permit the Use of a Common Flue for Oil and Solid Fuel Burning Equipment
Be it enacted by the People of the State of Maine as follows:
Sec. 1. 25 MRSA §2465, sub-§1-A, as enacted by PL 2005, c. 571, §1, is amended to read:
1-A. Routine technical rules. The Commissioner of Public Safety shall adopt rules pertaining to the construction, installation, maintenance and inspection of chimneys, fireplaces, vents and solid fuel burning appliances. Rules adopted pursuant to this subsection may include rules pertaining to maintenance and inspections, except as provided in subsection 1-B. Rules adopted pursuant to this subsection may not prohibit the use of a single chimney flue to vent 2 appliances that use different fuels. Rules adopted pursuant to this subsection are routine technical rules as defined in Title 5, chapter 375, subchapter 2-A.
Sec. 2. 32 MRSA §2402-A, as enacted by PL 1999, c. 386, Pt. J, §16, is amended to read:
§ 2402-A. Rules
The board may adopt reasonable rules for the issuance of various types and classes of licenses to cover oil and solid fuel burner installations and to set forth standards and rules for product approval. Standards and rules adopted pursuant to this section may not prohibit the use of a single chimney flue to vent 2 appliances that use different fuels. A license may cover one or more types of installations. The board may further adopt reasonable rules concerning the term and type of experience required by candidates for examination.
SUMMARY
The bill prohibits the Commissioner of Public Safety and the Oil and Solid Fuel Board from adopting rules that prohibit the use of a common chimney flue for 2 appliances using different fuels.

 

[heaterman]

FYI Some bureaucratic talk tp read along with lunch.

Nothing in there about Grandfathering


An Act To Permit the Use of a Common Flue for Oil and Solid Fuel Burning Equipment
Be it enacted by the People of the State of Maine as follows:
Sec. 1. 25 MRSA §2465, sub-§1-A, as enacted by PL 2005, c. 571, §1, is amended to read:
1-A. Routine technical rules. The Commissioner of Public Safety shall adopt rules pertaining to the construction, installation, maintenance and inspection of chimneys, fireplaces, vents and solid fuel burning appliances. Rules adopted pursuant to this subsection may include rules pertaining to maintenance and inspections, except as provided in subsection 1-B. Rules adopted pursuant to this subsection may not prohibit the use of a single chimney flue to vent 2 appliances that use different fuels. Rules adopted pursuant to this subsection are routine technical rules as defined in Title 5, chapter 375, subchapter 2-A.
Sec. 2. 32 MRSA §2402-A, as enacted by PL 1999, c. 386, Pt. J, §16, is amended to read:
§ 2402-A. Rules
The board may adopt reasonable rules for the issuance of various types and classes of licenses to cover oil and solid fuel burner installations and to set forth standards and rules for product approval. Standards and rules adopted pursuant to this section may not prohibit the use of a single chimney flue to vent 2 appliances that use different fuels. A license may cover one or more types of installations. The board may further adopt reasonable rules concerning the term and type of experience required by candidates for examination.
SUMMARY
The bill prohibits the Commissioner of Public Safety and the Oil and Solid Fuel Board from adopting rules that prohibit the use of a common chimney flue for 2 appliances using different fuels.

BUT! Most code officials will refer back to manufacturers instructions if and when a venting question arises. Not sure about the old one in question but modern I/O manuals that I have read expressly forbid the combination of solid fuel and gas or oil burning appliances. My knee jerk reaction is that one would be on very thin ice at best.

 

[tom in maine]

Most code guys I spoke with do not have a clue as to what to do. They will probably go with this new law.

My understanding, from Dick Hill, who has researched this whole issue for the Maine Oil Dealers Association is that this is not a big deal or problem.
The issue is that the code to date was the law, NFPA 211. John Martin got hit with having to remove a device from a chimney and got the law changed.

Dick had demonstrated that from an engineering point of view this was not a big issue. He also found that there were not any losses from two devices into a single
flue. His input had no bearing on the Fire Marshall's office--probably rightly so, given what you have said.

Is interesting that a politico got the law changed. I am not sure if we should be scared or not.

 

[heaterman]

I have to amend what I said a bit. In most cases a manufacturer will not recommend common venting a GAS fired appliance with solid fuel. Probably due to the moisture in the flue gas from a vapor fired unit. Not so much with an oil fired boiler which has a "drier" exhaust. The other factor is that both oil and solid fuel require a Class A rated chimney whereas gas could be vented with B-vent. Solid fuel in a B-vent flue is a recipe for disaster.

 

[pybyr]

Thanks for your help guys, I have tracked down a guy whom has alot of expierence with soild fuels, now I just have to convince him to come over and get this thing cranking. I guess I better start cutting some wood!

Congrats on home purchase! Going through that much oil suggests that more might be done in the way of insulation/ air sealing- past norms for that work did not always cover all the options known today- and you can start seeing a huge difference if you zero in on and close off air leakage.

Re: cutting wood, this is _really_ late to be doing it for this coming heating season. I realize that that's the situation in which you find yourself- but, try to go with wood types such as Ash that are pretty low moisture to begin, and lose moisture rapidly once cut, split and stacked. Get it cut, split & tacked as quickly as you can, since wood does not really lose moisture well once freezing temps arrive

 

[lavs4x4]

Thanks guys for all you comments. I went poking around the basement and found the remains of the owners manual which despite being damaged I found plenty of great information, on how to fire it up, load it, etc. The one thing I was disappointed with was the the unit can only be in either wood mode or oil mode. I was hoping if the wood portion was running low and the thermostat demanded more heat the oil boiler wood kick in, however, this is not the case. Reading the manual it sounds as though this unit can handle a 12hr burn without a problem. My next step is to get in touch with the solid fuel guy my friend knows and drag him over to the house.

In regards to firewood and getting a late start. My inlaws have over 900 acres of farm and woodlands my plan was to clean up all the blow downs and cut and split the fallen tree, those should be ok right?

Thanks again,

Frank

 

[pybyr]

In regards to firewood and getting a late start. My inlaws have over 900 acres of farm and woodlands my plan was to clean up all the blow downs and cut and split the fallen tree, those should be ok right?

You're probably best off to still try to identify and seek out/ stick to types of trees that are relatively low moisture content to begin with, and that dry quickly.

My experience has been that some dead trees (ash, hophornbeam, to a lesser extent sugar maple) stay relatively dry once they fall/ die, and then season relatively quickly once cut, whereas other things seem to hold on to moisture once dead (elm, birch) (birch seems to rot very rapidly once it's dead, to the point that it gets punky and loses any fuel value) and still others - oak- seem to need a long time to dry regardless of whether they're cut dead or alive

http://www.mountainfirewoodkilns.com/firewood_ratings.pdf