New stove owner, old question.

[Bbick]

Well, almost a new stove owner, it won't be installed until the first of Nov. First off, after searching this site and reading lots of the great information contained in it, I decided to order an Enviro M55 cast to heat 1800 sq ft. This will help to take the load off of my oil burning furnace. The question I have is somewhat of a no brainer to you all, but since I live in the Interior of Alaska and will see 50 below zero temps, I'm wondering should I go with an OAK or not. The dealer that I am working with is very reputable in this town but are somewhat new to pellet stoves. I have an "air tight" (I use that term loosely) home with an HVAC. There are two ways I can have my stove installed.

The first involves running the exaust pipe outside and up to the top of my roof, some 20' of pipe run and not installing an OAK. The exaust would have to be this long because the stove exaust needs to be at least 48" away from a window that opens.

The second way would be to run the exahust outside using 8' of pipe, and use an OAK. I only have to be 18" away from an window that opens in this senerio.

I have talked this over with the dealer and they are talking with there Installers and pellet stove techs to see what would be the best coarse of action.

The dealer is telling me that they have installed stoves with OAK's and without them, and have had mixed results. I would just hate to pay to run the exaust through two roof lines with 20' of exaust pipe and then find that I could/should have run the OAK. My gut tells me that I should run the OAK, but I don't know how the stove is going to react to those temps. What is the coldest you guys have seen and was there any ill effects? I know cold air is denser so I would have to make some adjustments to the stove when it gets down to that temp. I guess I could run the OAK and then if it doesn't work out disconnect the stove from the OAK and plug the hole with insulation I just hate to put a hole in the wall that doesn't need to be there.

Any insight is welcome!

Thanks!

 

[Delta-T]

I would not suspect the cold air coming in would have much effect on the stove, but may cause whatever moisture is in the air of your home to condense on the OAK pipe, get frosty and whatnot. You might wanna insulate it with something just to keep the moisture off of it. We dont get much below the zero deg here, but the stoves dont seem to care. When its super cold, you can get ash settling in the pipe a bit more frequently, you'll be happy to have less pipe and have it at ground level if that happens to you on a cold, dark windy night...when the "Squatch" is about and hungry...if you know what I mean.

 

[Delta-T]

and welcome to the forum

 

[jtakeman]

Seeing you home is pretty air tight, I would lean heavily towards an OAK. Seeing the extreme cold weather I would also lean towards an OAK that is warmed by the exhaust. Selkirk offers a kit with warmed air to the intake of the unit and only needs one hole to be installed in the homes exterior.

(broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Selkirk/Product.aspx?id=7390)

 

[Bioburner]

OAK it and make the termination easily cleaned as you may get some condensate freeze or a wind related issues. I get below -20 with screaming winds coming down the Red river Valley. Welcome

 

[Bbick]

Not so much the wind here in the interior, just the dead cold. That seems like a great idea pre-heating the air going to the stove, and I could get away with only one hole in the house. I'm really excited about getting this thing installed and fired up. I was a little bummed when the dealer told me the stove wasn't going to make it in untill november, but it also gave me time to figure out this install. I am going to e-mail them the link to the selkirk vent and see what they think or if they have a different brand that they know of. Anyone have this style vent? Any thoughts?

And thanks for the welcome!

 

[rona]

Not so much the wind here in the interior, just the dead cold. That seems like a great idea pre-heating the air going to the stove, and I could get away with only one hole in the house. I'm really excited about getting this thing installed and fired up. I was a little bummed when the dealer told me the stove wasn't going to make it in untill november, but it also gave me time to figure out this install. I am going to e-mail them the link to the selkirk vent and see what they think or if they have a different brand that they know of. Anyone have this style vent? Any thoughts?

And thanks for the welcome!

The bad part of preheating the air with the exh is the exh cools off and will drop small particals in the pipe causing the pipe to fail prematurely. Some companies went to a better grade of stainless to "fix" the problem. I have seen installs with long exh pipe fail in two seasons for this reason.

 

[DexterDay]

Selkirk DT has used a better grade of pipe for this app.

The bad part of preheating the air with the exh is the exh cools off and will drop small particals in the pipe causing the pipe to fail prematurely. Some companies went to a better grade of stainless to "fix" the problem. I have seen installs with long exh pipe fail in two seasons for this reason.

I will be installing DT this year after watching it for a few yrs. Good venting and an overall great product.

 

[Speed3]

I installed an oak with Selkirk dt last year. I couldn't be happier. I'd say the coldest we got overnight last year was about -15 to -20 deg f. I would recommend the oak to you as well. The combustion chamber doesn't see much of a difference in this air temperature since the temperature of the flame is in the 1500deg f range. The key is how cold your oak pipe gets and whether you have condensation issues on the outside of the pipe as a result. I have not had this issue so far.

 

[jtakeman]

The bad part of preheating the air with the exh is the exh cools off and will drop small particals in the pipe causing the pipe to fail prematurely. Some companies went to a better grade of stainless to "fix" the problem. I have seen installs with long exh pipe fail in two seasons for this reason.

I believe that issue was with the bixby stove/pipe while burning corn. Corn(and other biofuels) is more corrosive than pellets. They now recommend the better SS inner liner for any stove that has the ability to burn multifuels. The other inner liner is fine if you are only burning the less corrosive pellets.

 

[Bioburner]

Bixby pipe was a great idea just poorly executed. Wish they would make the pipe as heavy as automobile exhaust.

 

[Bbick]

The condensation makes sense, won't be burning corn, only pellets so hopefully won't see the amount of corrosion that can cause a problem, I think that I will probably discuss with my installer and go with the selkert DT. Seems like it will be a good opportunity for the dealer to look into a product that might make good sense for this area and increase there success rate with OAK. It will be nice to have a shorter run of exaust pipe coming out of my house. I was a little worried about having to do a 20' run of exaust pipe so I could install the stove in the corner of the living room. But, seems like there are some other options. I'll post some picks of the stove and install in Nov. and will keep interested parties updated with news of progress and possibly more questions! Thanks to everyone for their input

 

[Bbick]

So here is a new pic of my Enviro M55! Love the stove! It keeps the downstairs at 77 degrees and the upstairs at 67-69 degrees on the #2 setting on a 0 degree day!. I ended up not going with the OAK per my installers recommendation, at least for now. We installed the exaust in a manner that it didn't need the 20 foot run to clear the house. I have burned 4 bags of premium blazer pellets so far and can get about 24 hours out of a bag running the stove on 2 or three for most of the day. I feel that if I don't want my boiling kicking on when temps reach 40 bellow I will probably have it up on 4 or 5. We will see, part of the fun of having my new toy is playing with the settings to get the most bang for my buck.

On question I have though is has anyone ever used a long run of pipe for an outside air hook up. My thought would be to run my OAK through my crawspace with 25 or more feet of pipe so that when temps do hit 40 bellow, the air would have time to warm up befor hitting the stove. This would alieviate super cold air hitting the burn pot.

anyway, love the stove! heres a pic!

 

[stoveguy2esw]

if you can do the OAK, do it!, if for no other reason than efficiency. a modern pellet stove will require a lot of air for combustion, this air has to be replaced. in a "tight house" its not easily done through leaks so negative pressure will build and performance can drop off. in a "loose" house , drawing house air will actually increase the draftiness of the house as removal and replacement of air happens as the unit is running.

also, look at it this way, drawing house air , you are using air YOU HAVE ALREADY PAID TO HEAT for combustion and then ejecting it from the house, replacing it with cold air from outside through leaks.

i've studied this concept for most of the 20 years i've been in this industry and i can not find a factually backed up argument for not doing an OAK. in some cases its just not practical, but if its easily done , for petes sake do it, don't waste the heat you paid for.

 

[akboom]

hey there fellow alaska interior I got a harman advance with no option to conveiently install oak being stove is smack center of the house. mine is also pretty air tight but I don't notice any issues I do tend to leave the door half open to the attached garage as I'm always out there doing something. suppose to be a cold streak this week so load up the stove and enjoy

 

[gfreek]

i've studied this concept for most of the 20 years i've been in this industry and i can not find a factually backed up argument for not doing an OAK. in some cases its just not practical, but if its easily done , for petes sake do it, don't waste the heat you paid for.

This person knows his stuff... Thanks Mike

 

[bill3rail]

OAK! If your house is tight, get some fresh air into the stove from outside.

Bill

 

[Bbick]

I beleive that stove guy does know his stuff. And I do understand the downsides to not having an OAK (burning air you already paid to heat) But, I haven't found anywere on this forum or on the internet that would lead me to install an OAK when for 3 months out of the year it is 20-50 below zero. For now I am going with what my installer recommends before I cut another hole in my wall. What I am thinking about doing is running the fresh air intake through my crawlspace so that the air has time to warm up some before hitting the stove. Is there any negative effects of having an long run of pipe for an fresh air intake?

AKboom, I also found that if I crack my garage door it helps out with air makup.

Bring on the cold!

 

[akboom]

-30 today I can't believe all the snow we have 13 inches on the level it's gonna be ugly when we get some wind! I never thought about putting a oak down threw the floor into crawl space that might not be a bad idea. but at the same time when it's -50 I think you could have problems.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

Search the forum on larger diameter OAK intakes. I'd say for the length you mention (25') that I'd start with a 4" then drop it down as it gets closer to the stove.
One thing I seldom see mentioned as a downside to NOT having an OAK is - what happens when the power goes out and your stove shuts off ? Before I had an OAK I got some smoke backing out of the back of the stove at the OAK port when I lost power. At least if you have the OAK connected - any power outage will allow any smoke spillage to exit to the outside. Also don't forget some kind of UPS for the stove unless you already got one. I like the OAK via the crawl space idea for your application.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

if you run the OAK out through the crawlspace, you want to carry it outside of the structure so we arent drawing cold air into the crawlspace if there are water pipes and the like in there. if the air is contained it wont cool things too much under there so its not that bad an idea, but make sure its not going to be so low to the ground that it would get buried in the snow

 

[krooser]

The stove couldn't care less what temp the incoming air is from the oak… when your burning fuel @ several hundred degrees F it makes little difference. I've run my stove at -28F with out any problems.

Without an oak your stove is sucking outside air in from every available crack and crevice. Plus it's using up the oxygen inside your home… if you have a tight house you may want to reconsider your plans.

 

[Bbick]

First weekly cleaning done. I thought it went pretty well. Bought an ash vac and was very glad I did. Put an old bed sheet in front of the stove to catch any stray ash. Was glad I did! Everything seemed to go back together fine. I guess the only thing that surprised me (thougth I guess it shouldnt) was that alot of the black paint on the inside of the stove came off with the ash. Anyway fired it up and its burning away!