New Stove Vogelzang 5790 ?

[MiMod]

My First Post, Bought this unit 3 weeks ago & everything was going fine. Used it at night & Shut off during day. Scoured the internet for tips & Videos & Got a lot of great info. Then, I think I think it was me that screwed up. I finally filled the hopper to 120lb max. This was after I Made a nifty new pellet screener that I pre pre screened the pellets through to get the fines out of the bags. Well, without cleaning anything I did 4 apx 11 hour cycles ( On at Night & off in Day.) On the fifth go round, thick smoke was coming out the exhaust stack & no visible fire. This was in the 12 minute start up cycle. Shut it down while in this cycle & Smoked up the house. What I think happened, was the burner pot at the bottom became crusted with burnt pellets & wasn't getting Air Flow. When I finally opened up the front door, I had pellets everywhere & about the bottom 1/3 of the burn pot was a solid crust of melted Pellets. After Cleaning & Vac everything good its back to normal. I guess what I might have learned was its not just the run time that you use to determine when to clean, but its the Number of off and on Cycles too. PS I was A little surprised that the cool down fan didn't kick in to get rid of the smoke but maybe the unit never got hot enough to activate this.... What do you think, Am I on the right track ? I was using Pellets--Name Brand Michigan Hardwoods.... My only other Option locally that I'm aware of is another Michigan Brand called Pro Pellits

According to Local Fuel suppliers, Michigan has no Native species of Soft Pellets that work good in Pellet Burners

 

[WinterinWI]

@begreen how about moving this to the pellet room.

 

[tlc1976]

I have the 5770 which is the little sibling of the 5790, runs off the same board and uses most of the same parts.

I started using pellets which were a hardwood/softwood blend. The fire would go out often on heat range 1, they didn't burn hot or long enough to maintain fire. Had a ton of ash buildup and if I didn't clean it at least every 1-2 days, the pot would plug up with crud. The glass would be plugged solid in a half a day.

I switched to Pro Pellets (100% hardwood) and I can go a week or more and you can still see through the glass and the pot never plugs up. They burn so nice and clean. Heat output is considerably hotter too. I get more heat for each setting and really appreciate them during those -20F stretches in February. I would try some Pro Pellets, you might be pleasantly surprised.

If you install an outside air kit, the smoke will (mostly) go back outside rather back up into the house. But since the Pro Pellets, my fire has never gone out unless I go too long cleaning the pipe. I typically clean it once every ton burned (twice when I'm running it hard, the higher airflow pulls more ash out). Also make sure to clean the side ash traps every time or two you clean the firebox. At least the 5790 has hinged doors for this, mine you have to unscrew the panels.

I've also done some other helpful mods which would work on yours too but I would try a good cleaning and some Pro Pellets first.

 

[MiMod]

Thank you. I will Try the Pro Pellets as soon as I run these (About 1 1/2 bag) through the Hopper. Then I'll Clean it good & Go Pro P.
Any Tips or advice you can pass along I'd appreciate !

 

[tlc1976]

You've only had the stove for 3 weeks so I wouldn't mod the stove if you're concerned about warranty. But if you're like me and you don't care:

I bypassed the hopper door switch. Otherwise the auger shuts off when you're trying to load the bag and it can make the fire go out. No more stress of racing to get the bag in before the fire goes out. Common sense keeps your fingers away from the auger, its WAY down there. I can also stand there with the lid open and dig around and snap any long pellets I see. Easier on the auger that way, also it can be kind of addicting.

I put in a bypass switch for the exhaust blower. When I fire up the stove I run the blower on full (wall plug power) and use the damper to throttle the air. I find it gives a little bit better burn with either pellet and it almost kept the junk pellets from going out. I put it back to board power when shutting the stove down so the blower stops when the stove stops. But the main reasons I installed it were to keep the smoke sucked outside when the fire went out. And so I can run the fan manually when cleaning. It makes a huge difference, it sucks out most of the ash stirred up when cleaning, rather than it billowing around and getting in the house.

 

[MiMod]

You've only had the stove for 3 weeks so I wouldn't mod the stove if you're concerned about warranty. But if you're like me and you don't care:

I bypassed the hopper door switch. Otherwise the auger shuts off when you're trying to load the bag and it can make the fire go out. No more stress of racing to get the bag in before the fire goes out. Common sense keeps your fingers away from the auger, its WAY down there. I can also stand there with the lid open and dig around and snap any long pellets I see. Easier on the auger that way, also it can be kind of addicting.

I put in a bypass switch for the exhaust blower. When I fire up the stove I run the blower on full (wall plug power) and use the damper to throttle the air. I find it gives a little bit better burn with either pellet and it almost kept the junk pellets from going out. I put it back to board power when shutting the stove down so the blower stops when the stove stops. But the main reasons I installed it were to keep the smoke sucked outside when the fire went out. And so I can run the fan manually when cleaning. It makes a huge difference, it sucks out most of the ash stirred up when cleaning, rather than it billowing around and getting in the house.

I guess I didn't notice the auger shutting off on mine when filling. Have the Pro Pellets in now (120lbs worth) . Were still around 50 degrees here during day So we usually shut it down for most of the daylight hours & Ck/clean the burn pot at least during this time. Will see what we can learn today from looking at the burn pot today & the pro Pellets. Upon Shutdown my exhaust blower still runs for several minutes. The Prior Pellets-----"Michigan Hardwoods" gave me about 59 Hours of burn time on a 120 lb load. That was over several days of on at night & off in the day. According to my notes that was 7 off & on Cycles. We have never had to go above the lowest power setting yet. I think you said you have the slightly smaller unit so asking you if the pellet use vs the burn time might not be a # you could supply accurately.

 

[tlc1976]

I have a 60 lb hopper. Holds a bag and a half nicely. On lowest setting I get about 27 hours on one bag, or about 40 hours per hopper. I got 30 hours per bag with the old pellets, but my heat increase is well over that 10%.

Looks like you get about 20 hours per bag but you also have a higher BTU stove. The board and programming is the same so it must use a little bit bigger auger.

 

[MiMod]

Thanks. Got a couple of ?
I've started Using the Pro Pellets & I did a cold start last evening after doing a cleaning. I had the damper about 1/2 open upon restart. Had me worried I was going to go through the whole smoke issue again as smoke was rolling out the exh pipe pretty good for a minute or so before igniting the fire... Is that normal or would I have had better luck if the damper was completely closed during restarts ? I do have the cold air intake pipe hooked up on mine.

The aftermarket firebox known as the "Klunker Keeper or KlunkerKing "... Does this just sit on top of the firebox or does it totally replace it ?

Cleaning the Exhaust pipe.... I bought the Standard exhaust kit. Goes strait out the back to a "T" outside & then up 3+ ft & hooks over. Its got a clean out on the bottom & I do have the 3" brush on the cable to go up from the bottom . Is Just doing that going to be good enough along with hooking up the leaf blower to the bottom ? Apparently your supposed to do this after every Ton burned. Or do I need to also disconnect the exh at the T, Run the brush in towards the furnace & hit it with the leaf blower at that connection ? Thanks, I'm still in the learning curve phase of this contraption.

 

[tlc1976]

Mine will start with the damper at any position. I typically change the damper when I change heat ranges to get the best burn. But I never have it less than 1/4 open for the Pro Pellets.

Mine smokes pretty good just before ignition but it's all outside the house. That's normal. The engineer in me doesn't care for a solid piece of tape trying to seal and pack into curves and seams. My suggestion would be to remove the tape and get a tube of high temp RTV (I used the black, it looks better and doesn't stink so bad) and go over every one of your seams, every factory seam, and every rivet hole. Seal that thing up good inside the house. I also went around where it goes through the thimble. One time when cleaning I snagged and pulled out one of the o-rings. No worries with having the seams sealed externally. An LED light in the dark really helps to pinpoint remaining leaks you need to seal up a little more. When I did it I could see the curly que of smoke coming out of the seam.

Your setup sounds just like mine, except I have a 45 degree elbow in the house because my stove is in a corner, and I have a 6 ft rise outside that hooks over. I brush the vertical section first. Then work the brush into the horizontal part and brush it until it comes out clean, that seems to be where most of the ash lies. What helps immensely is my blower override switch (and opening the damper fully) to force out the ash when I knock it loose from the horizontal section (but there is a setting where you can do this, I'll find it). Or search "5790 board test" on this forum, you can run the blower that way. The lukewarm air blowing on my hands is also cozy on my hands in the dead of winter. Don't forget to clean behind the side ash traps too, open the side panels and they are rectangular plates with 2 screws and probably orange rubber gaskets.

I don't know about the aftermarket firebox. I have zero problems with the stock one. I've also never tried the leaf blower trick.

 

[MiMod]

I will Ck my seams per your suggestion w/a LED, I did use the High Temp silicone on all section seams but didn't tape them also.
Now an update with more Q
Ran 120lbs of ProPellets.. Only Shut of 1X so will call it 2 cycles till empty.. Had the power on the lowest setting. Got 44 Hours out of it before running out. ( Going to go back & do it again with another 120lb hopper load OF Pro P to confirm the #) I thought I got 59 Hours out of the "Michigan Hardwood" pellets at the same power setting but that was with more ( 7) on /off cycles per the 120lb load... So I just Cleaned everything with my ash Vac, side panels too. Feed system appeared good as I only found 2 pellets that bounced out of the burn pot & that's with the factory burn pot being used. So if in fact I did burn pellets that much quicker did I do something different to cause this ? Like opening the damper up more or Hitting the up/down temp button & increasing the pellet flow. My side panel temp indicator hovered around 80 degrees for this burn which was about the same # indicated when I was using the "Michigan Hardwood" Pellets. I will say , based on my observations so far the Pro Pellets seemed to be what I would call a more complete burn in ash.
Now the only other thing I did for this entire burn was install a full size firebrick between the burnpot & the front glass. I saw a Video on this & the reason for this was to keep the front glass cleaner/longer. On that, I can report it does work.... ? is was that reflecting heat back to the burn pot & making the system burn pellets quicker ? If that's the case then I surmise the auger must kick on/cycle based on temp drop & not on just a timed delivery every X amount of seconds. Is that how it works ? I will run this 120lb load without the firebrick in & report back. Also, since this unit is either on or off-----meaning it will run only so cool as a minimum temp, Would pushing the temp up button actually make it run harder on power setting one.... If so then the temp up button actually could be used to get you closer to power setting two where it would consume more pellets per hour. Any truth to that thought ?
After further reading my manual I should mention I'm running it in manual mode, So as I understand that it does appear that using the up arrow button will increase the feed of pellets. Do you run yours in Manual Mode or T Stat Mode ?

 

[tlc1976]

I went through the Pro Pellets a little faster (27 hours vs 30 hours). If your old pellets are a lot longer then that would have slowed them down.

The auger feed, room blower speed, and exhaust blower speed are all built in presets, one for each heat range. So there are only 5 settings for this. It doesn't make adjustments based on temperature or anything. For each heat range setting it is what it is. When you push the up arrow it lights another LED on the bargraph and it bumps the whole stove up another heat range, and fans run faster. So in that regard it increases the flow of pellets, but you clearly know what it's doing.

I typically run mine on manual mode. That way I can keep the damper set the best for the heat range it is on, otherwise it's a compromise of performance. But actually the main reason I avoid thermostat mode is I find it annoying when it keeps bouncing between heat ranges and the room fan keeps changing speed.

I've never tried a firebrick behind the glass. Though my glass does get dirty, I can still see the fire through it even after a week and that's fine with me.

 

[MiMod]

Ok, Thanks that was again helpful info..... I ran another 120 lbs of Pro Pellets through it in 4 cycles of Of/On. Got 47.5 hrs of run time out of it in Manual Mode at I think was its lowest settings. I did hit the down arrow several times To see if I had kicked it up in the last test & I might have cause I got 3 1/2 hours more out of this one. Might go Back & Try the Michigan Hardwoods again & track it but it will be a while if I do. Now on using the Up/Down Arrow Button,-----How many times do you have to press it to get it from level 1 to level 2 ? Or do you just press it & hold it down till you see the second bar above the power button light up solid ?

Couple other things, When I first start up the stove from cold, It fills my burn pot about 1/3 + full with pellets before ignition. Just wondering if thats normal.

Found a Great video on Youtube authored by US Stove. It was about Deep Cleaning a Vogelzang like mine. Showed how to pull the exh blower and everything... A few more videos like that on this unit would sure help calm the nerves of the newbies like me .
Thanks Again !

 

[tlc1976]

Pellets are never perfectly consistent so some variance on total burn time is to be expected. Sometimes I find quite a few long ones in the Pro Pellets too. It varies depending on the manufacturing process at the time. But in any case they always burn much better and hotter than my old ones.

Unless they changed something in the control boards, you should only have to hit the button once to change heat range and light (or unlight) the next LED. And it should change instantly, no need to hold the button whatsoever. If you're already on heat range 1 in manual mode, pressing the down button should change nothing. Same with the up button if you're already on 5.

Filling the pot that much is normal for ignition. It should fill at least to the igniter hole (otherwise it's not going to ignite anything).

I didn't have high speed internet when I started so I haven't seen any of the videos. By now I've figured out my own methods. I use a flexible dryer duct brush to reach up and clean out the passages, works really well. Along with keeping the exhaust blower forced on.

How is your burn pot doing with the Pro Pellets? Is it staying clearer than with the old pellets? Now you're knowledgeable at cleaning the stove you could always try the old pellets and do a fair comparison test.

 

[MiMod]

Thanks, I just successfully got the the up arrow to work to increase the heat. I was quick tapping it & that won't work. You gotta Touch and hold it for a sec or so & it will beep & take it up a notch on the power meter. So cross my fingers I might have a stove with no factory defects. Still think I got stuff to learn like fresh air intake level to minimize glass smoke but feeling a lot more confident & liking this unit better every day.
I think you have mentioned a couple times of your Mod to force the blower on. Got any photos to show how you did that ? That was for helping in the cleaning when you were cleaning ?

 

[tlc1976]

Glad to hear you're learning this stove and liking it. I love mine.

They might have made changes to the board on newer models, hard to say. As long as it works.

I don't have any photos right now but all I did was use a little Radio Shack project box and put a heavy duty DPDT toggle switch in it.

I disconnected the wiring at the exhaust blower then used lamp cord with crimp on terminals to accomplish the following.

Center of the switch goes to the blower.
One side of the switch goes to the wires coming from the stove board to the blower.
Other side of the switch goes to a lamp cord with a plug that plugs into the wall.

This way there is a center OFF position (which you won't use) but makes so the board can never see the power from the wall. One direction the blower gets power from the stove board. The other direction the blower gets power from the wall and therefore is forced on full speed. I've been running mine for years this way and no ill effects with the blower disconnected from the board. I do have a spare board along with other parts which is always a good idea if it's your primary heat source.

The project box had a couple screw tabs so I attached it using one of the screws that holds the back panel on. I made sure the wires were not contacting any part of the stove that gets hot.

Remember this will probably void your warranty if that's important to you. It wasn't important to me.

If you don't want to do the mod, you can do this and pause at step 10 to force the blower on for cleaning.

Vogelzang VG-5790

I'd have to know what the auger voltage was and hook up an external supply to push it. Neither of which do I have, though I could probably borrow a supply from work. @IHATEPROPANE: What would you recommend for sealing the gap?

www.hearth.com

 

[MiMod]

Hu, I had seen/found that info a few days ago. Sounded a little scary at my experience level & I was gonna ask you about it as its a few years old . May get bold and try to run the sequence. I see what you were pointing at with the blower . In effect that's the diagnostic test you can run as a unit owner to ck for issues related to motherboard & electrical parts.. That's way cool... Thanks..
So, you spoke of spare parts, If you had to pick 3, what would you have on hand... I have side door spare gasket material already.

 

[tlc1976]

Being my primary and least expensive heat source, any time I have to run the boiler costs me a lot more money. So anything that is long lead and can fail quickly and it can't run without, I have. Blower motors, auger motor, control boards. And a handful of auger pins from the hardware store, though in a pinch I used a nail once.

I have a couple igniters but the stove can be started without it in a pinch. And the snap discs, vacuum switch, door switch, can be bypassed to get you by. I do have a spare snap exhaust snap disc.

 

[MiMod]

Here is an update. Ran a 120 lb load of " Michigan Hardwoods" to compare them to Pro Pellets. On the same settings the Michigan Hardwoods gave me 4 more hours of total burn time. Visually these pellets are a little darker & appear to be a little harder. I always pre screen my pellets through a 1/4 mesh box to help remove "fines". Although it also catches alot of small chunks the size of about a #2 pencil eraser head bit in half in the process. The math on that showed I had collected 3 more ounces of fines in a 120 lb load with the Pro Pellets vs the Mi Hardwood Pellets. ( for whats that worth )

Clunkers in Burn pot. Yes I'm still getting them & I have opened up the cold air lever some more . So far this fall we have been able to shut off the stove for several hours every day & before restart do a decent cleaning including removing the burn pot & scraping it out. So I dunno, is this normal ? My only other thought on this goes back to something I read about Summer storage ( Or also known as burning last years pellets).. Not being a good Idea. Well I was thinking its certainly possible that the stores got last years left over pellets from the suppliers first & therefore the clunker issue might be ........

 

[tlc1976]

It sounds like the Michigan Hardwood pellets are pretty decent, might as well keep using them. As it gets colder you might try each to see if either gives more heat.

I just cleaned my stove the other day. Between cleanings I don't even open the door. Had a lot going on but I confess I had a lot going on and let it go for 2 weeks. Even still, all the holes in the burn pot were open, and there was very little clinker or other buildup to scrape out of the pot. I have no complaints. I've been turning it off during the day and running it all evening and night. I'm currently burning what I had bought a year ago so they've been sitting in the unconditioned pole barn all that time and no issues.

I tend to get more clinker if I run too much air for the heat range.

 

[MiMod]

Ok, I did have the cold air turned up from the minimum, I'll try backing it down to near the minimum. My clinker is about 1/2 inch thick at a minimum & pretty much covers the whole bottom of the burn pot. That's after a 3 bag run . Will clean again tomorrow & remove the firebrick I had in it & try again & see if that has anything to do with it. ( That FB does keep the glass a lot cleaner for a lot longer though)

Its been below 32 degrees for a few days for the most part & we kicked up the stove from one to two. Its keeping the majority of the house at 70 degrees now. I was just wondering if you had a ballpark # on pellet burn per hour when you ramped yours up from 1 to 2 /3/4 so I know what to expect. As I stated earlier I was getting apx 52 continuous hours of burn on 120 lb of pellets on setting 1.

 

[tlc1976]

Vogelzang VG-5790

I'd have to know what the auger voltage was and hook up an external supply to push it. Neither of which do I have, though I could probably borrow a supply from work. @IHATEPROPANE: What would you recommend for sealing the gap?

www.hearth.com

Here are the auger timings on the 5790

HR ON Off
1 1.8 sec 6 sec. = 14 sec/min or 23% on
2 3.0 sec 4.5 sec = 24 sec/min or 40% on
3 3.5 sec 3.0 sec = 32 sec/min or 54% on
4 5.0 sec 3.0 sec = 38 sec/min or 63% on
5 6.0 sec 3.0 sec = 40 sec/min or 67% on

You can use this to proportion and get a rough figure for how much more you'll burn on each heat range. Works out for me. Per bag, 27-29 hours on 1, 9-10 hours on 5, is about what I get with the Pro Pellets.

 

[MiMod]

Great ! I can do the math on that... Thanks.
New ? I was reading somewhere when you remove the side panels to vac them out it would be a good idea to also try to get under? further in with a small vac tube ? or brush ( like a beaker brush) & try getting at some holes further in to clean. I can't see them but are they there ? & if so whats the best way to keep them clean regularly.

 

[tlc1976]

I run an old dryer vent brush up my side ash traps every now and then.

 

[MiMod]

Ok, Up the sides. I'll have to get one of those.. I use a Paint brush with the bristles cut to about 1" to clean the black off my burn chamber walls & it works pretty good. Thanks again