I recently purchased a tarm solo plus 60. It will be installed in a exterior shop that is about 170' from my 2300 sq/ft home that has a propane gas forced air furnace. I was able to find two used 370 gallon ASME hot water storage tanks. The shop has 1200 sq/ft of infloor tubing. I understand that the solo 60 is bigger than I need,but I was able to get it very reasonable. I am looking for some setup options or diagrams for my pressurized system. I am thinking of running 1.25 inch lines to the house and keeping my storage tanks in the insulated shop. I live in northeastern wisconsin and have unlimited access to hardwood.
New tarm solo 60
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There is a 7 page pdf showing some different configurations. It's on Bioheat USA's website.
http://www.woodboilers.com/userfiles/file/SoloInnovaPlumbing(1).pdf
You'll have to copy and paste this URL into your browser. For some reason it won't link correctly here.
http://www.woodboilers.com/userfiles/file/SoloInnovaPlumbing(1).pdf
You'll have to copy and paste this URL into your browser. For some reason it won't link correctly here.
Be sure to do a heat load calc, give consideration to your 370' round trip plumbing, and then determine whether 1.25" is enough to meet current and future need. My calculation shows 370' of 1.25" at 14 gpm (1.25" design rating) produces head of about 28 feet; and about 7 feet of head at 8 gpm. Also about 8 feet of head with 1.5" at 14 gpm. My gut is that you may be under-sizing the plumbing based on your pipe run plus boiler capacity.
I have similar situation. Last year, my first season with Tarm 60, I had to run with no turbulators and only put in 1/2 to 3/4 loads of wood. If your putting in storage make sure your piping / pump can transfer heat to storage rapidly. I did try to install turbulators after the recommended stove break-in period. I think I only added 6 out of the 12 possible and the chimney temp didn't climb much before stove shut down. Not good a scenario, so, I removed the turbulators at the end of that fire and ran with out for the rest of season which was OK.
Any way the 60 has a potential of putting out a lot of BTUs. To run efficiently using turbulators to extract all possible heat and to have stove ( hopefully ) not idle you've got to be able to do something with the output. For me, it's dumping to storage. From reading on this site you may want to consider some storage at your house also ?
Rob
Any way the 60 has a potential of putting out a lot of BTUs. To run efficiently using turbulators to extract all possible heat and to have stove ( hopefully ) not idle you've got to be able to do something with the output. For me, it's dumping to storage. From reading on this site you may want to consider some storage at your house also ?
Rob
jimde said:
You may not need the BTU's for heat, but you need to do SOMETHING with them, or they will cause your boiler to run inefficiently, which will cause it's own problems... It might be worth looking at putting in more storage, as 740 gallons is a bit on the low side for such a big boiler...
Gooserider
I wish I would have purchased a SOLO 40,but I found this one on craigslist brand new for $6100.00 shipped to my door. Maybe I should consider trying to find a buyer for it and find a smaller boiler.
jimde said:
I would look for more storage if you have someplace to put it....with more storage, you have enough "room" to store all those BTU's your stove will produce. By the time you tried to remove, sell, purchase a new boiler and then install it I would think you would be money ahead purchasing more storage. Plus, you'll have a much larger "battery" to make when you want to burn more convenient.
Hi, Regardless if you have a 40 or a 60 ( which you got a screening deal on ) the rest of the stuff is a necessity. Underground pex & insulation. Run a couple of spare pipes for future use. Black poly irrigation pipe works well. Mix valves, piping, expansion circulators, thermometers, zone valves etc all add up $$$$.
The tarm you have will run no storage and you will quickly learn how to keep it from over heating. You already have some storage so your ahead of where I was when I bought mine last year, with storage planned for this years project I'm trying to finish up.
What you got is fine and worst case you can't use all turbulators if chimney doesn't get up to temp. If your chimney temp is OK and you still over heat don't put in so much wood per fire. This is what I would consider.
Can you put any storage at your house, now or future ?
Can you put any more storage any where, now or future ?
The more storage the more efficiency we can try to get off our big stoves while firing with a low demand, and a longer time between fires. I'm putting in 1000G and I wish I could go more, but 1000G is still pretty good. If you could add another 500G propane tank some place it would be sweet ( 1000G would be killer ). And as I was trying to get at earlier you already have the rest of the equipment purchased and installed so the coat is minimal compared to overall investment. Because of the cost I think many of us consider these projects a work in progress situation. 1 or 2+ years.
If your looking for more (propane used less than 1$ per gallon) Just leave some taps in plumbing install for future, and then next year, if you think you can use the extra storage your good to go.
YOU ARE GOOD TO GO NOW. The more storage is from experienced ( not me ) guys trying to be helpful and get you the most first time around.
I have been installing of 1.5" pipe from Tarm to tanks my one choke point is the termovar mixing valve and the near boiler piping ( all at 1.25" ) that was pre done before I picked up the stove. Don't know the results of that yet. Hopefully next week.
Rob.
The tarm you have will run no storage and you will quickly learn how to keep it from over heating. You already have some storage so your ahead of where I was when I bought mine last year, with storage planned for this years project I'm trying to finish up.
What you got is fine and worst case you can't use all turbulators if chimney doesn't get up to temp. If your chimney temp is OK and you still over heat don't put in so much wood per fire. This is what I would consider.
Can you put any storage at your house, now or future ?
Can you put any more storage any where, now or future ?
The more storage the more efficiency we can try to get off our big stoves while firing with a low demand, and a longer time between fires. I'm putting in 1000G and I wish I could go more, but 1000G is still pretty good. If you could add another 500G propane tank some place it would be sweet ( 1000G would be killer ). And as I was trying to get at earlier you already have the rest of the equipment purchased and installed so the coat is minimal compared to overall investment. Because of the cost I think many of us consider these projects a work in progress situation. 1 or 2+ years.
If your looking for more (propane used less than 1$ per gallon) Just leave some taps in plumbing install for future, and then next year, if you think you can use the extra storage your good to go.
YOU ARE GOOD TO GO NOW. The more storage is from experienced ( not me ) guys trying to be helpful and get you the most first time around.
I have been installing of 1.5" pipe from Tarm to tanks my one choke point is the termovar mixing valve and the near boiler piping ( all at 1.25" ) that was pre done before I picked up the stove. Don't know the results of that yet. Hopefully next week.
Rob.
Thank you for the response. If my solo 60 is oversized would it be beneficial for me to install a radiator in my attached garage. The garage is 700sq' and is well insulated. Would this allow my boiler to run at full tilt and possibly prevent idling more often. Total space heated would be 2300sq' in the house. 700' in the garage and 1200sq' of infloor in the shop with the boiler. Would you still recommend more storage? Also could someone explain to me how to plumb my 2 pressurized 370 gallon storage tanks in tandom. I believe the tanks have a internal baffle for stratification. I appreciate all your help and comments as I am forwarding them to my plumber.
I have this radiator set up for my no power dump zone. The zone valve has a dial so you can manually crack it open, like a ball valve. I leave the valve partially open to help bleed off some of the stove BTU's and the radiator throws off some serious heat. I find the radiator beneficial to temper the stove temperature spike at the end of the burn cycle. My system is burning only for house heat and DHW demand I have not completed the storage yet. So the radiator is always using some heat while the stove is going on, off, on, off during the day.
So adding a radiator can help but it's not going to get you using up a lot of BTU's during burns.
Once I finish my storage I will burn to heat storage and size the amount of wood for the fire box according to how much heat I feel the tanks can take.
You mentioned passing info to your plumber. Please take my comments as "my experience" not expert advice. I ( think ) I have a pretty good concept of how thing work and why. I can do most of the work my self and have had experience with 2 other wood boilers. Most importantly I have spent tons of time reading on this site as to what has worked for some with similar set-ups as I wanted to build. You also find where people have had to make adjustments to their systems to maximize efficiency. All that said, I hope I don't have to make any major adjustments but it's all on me if I do.
There are 2 excellent designs on the top of this site, stickies. What ever design you use make sure you can get available BTU's through pipes and fittings to tanks. You should get an expert to verify this but it may be hard to get the out put from a Tarm 60 through a 1.25" pipe. You really need to look at where the tanks and stove are located etc.
Rob
So adding a radiator can help but it's not going to get you using up a lot of BTU's during burns.
Once I finish my storage I will burn to heat storage and size the amount of wood for the fire box according to how much heat I feel the tanks can take.
You mentioned passing info to your plumber. Please take my comments as "my experience" not expert advice. I ( think ) I have a pretty good concept of how thing work and why. I can do most of the work my self and have had experience with 2 other wood boilers. Most importantly I have spent tons of time reading on this site as to what has worked for some with similar set-ups as I wanted to build. You also find where people have had to make adjustments to their systems to maximize efficiency. All that said, I hope I don't have to make any major adjustments but it's all on me if I do.
There are 2 excellent designs on the top of this site, stickies. What ever design you use make sure you can get available BTU's through pipes and fittings to tanks. You should get an expert to verify this but it may be hard to get the out put from a Tarm 60 through a 1.25" pipe. You really need to look at where the tanks and stove are located etc.
Rob
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Thanks for the post. When I said a radiator I ment like a modine water to air with a fan. I could thermostat control the output. I am still wondering if anyone could explain the best way to plumb so if my house is calling for heat it will be supplied first and then DHW and then storage with the infloor in the shop being the last priority. I think that is the best order of events,but I want to make sure this is possible. I appreciate all your help and encourage anyone to chime in. GO PACK GO
Rob or anyone, why does it matter where my tanks are located? My 1.25" thermopex should have minimal heat loss in transit to the house from the shop where the tanks will be. Also you stated that you would use 1.5" pipeing from the boiler to the tanks. Is this for more rapid charging of the tanks? I have read on this site about black pipe before copper and do not understand the concept. Thank you all.
The 60 max output is more than a 1.25" can handle, I believe. So I was thinking 1.5" from the boiler to the tanks to get the BTU's out of boiler. Black is less expensive if you can buy in lengths and cut threads ?
Rob
Rob
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