New to Burning...Have Some Questions

[fcwest14]

Hey all. Just moved into a house that came with a Regency fireplace insert, that is approximately 5-6 years old. Tried searching the forum for answers but thought I would post my question here as didn't see the answers and see if my technique is sound thus far. For reference I have either a H2100 or I3100L regency model.

- When I heat in the morning or first fire, will load up 2-3 logs and make sure to burn with the draft fully open for 20 mins and the blower off
- After 20-25 mins will turn the blower on and put the draft a little less than fully in to slow the burning (and because the manual said to not use the blower with the draft fully pushed in). Question, why do you not want to run the blow with the draft control fully in?
- I wait until the logs are close to fully burnt for the most part before loading up another 1-2 pieces, so I am just tossing them on the ember / coal bed
- I turn off the blower upon reload and open the draft fully for 10 mins, then bring it back to close to closed to slow the burn. After 20-25 mins I turn the blower back on. Question: why do I need to turn off the blower for 20-30 mins post reloading the insert? I also have the draft fully open for ~10 mins post reload as I read that helps with creosote not building up, is that correct?
- I repeat this all day, but before bed I will stack 4-5 pieces in the insert, same 10 mins on draft fully open, then wait and bring draft control close to closed and turn blower on


Would love any comments or thoughts on what I am doing and some insight into my questions since you guys seem like the experts. Also, cleaning wise, assume once a year chimney sweep should come in to clean things? How does that work with an insert though as do they need to take apart and resemble to clean? I intended to use daily, and only all day 2-3 times a week while I am home.

Thanks so much. Loving it so far.

Andre

 

[jatoxico]

After 20-25 mins will turn the blower on and put the draft a little less than fully in to slow the burning (and because the manual said to not use the blower with the draft fully pushed in). Question, why do you not want to run the blow with the draft control fully in?

The manual is giving generic advice the idea being that with air fully closed the unit will run cooler (true but all relative) and with fan on you could over cool the stove. The stove needs to be hot enough so that the secondary burn system will function (burn smoke and gases) or you'll get less heat and more smoke which can lead to more creosote.

You've got the right idea but I would get a stove top thermometer and use that as your guide. There are so many variations in outdoor conditions, wood loading and dryness, starting temp etc that it's hard to cover it in the manual. With a thermometer you'll know exactly where you're at. Run the air and fan so as to keep a roughly 500 deg stove top.

As far as cleaning, assuming you have a full stainless liner with a cap, the sweep will remove the cap and the system will get brushed down into the insert. Then vacuumed out. You may (most likely) have to remove the upper baffles to allow all the ash/creosote to be removed.

 

[fcwest14]

jatoxico - thanks so much as helpful! Any insight into why I shouldn't be running the blower for 30 mins post a reload of wood?

Thanks as it seems I am running things directionally right. Appreciate any other insights too. Also, maybe a dumb question, but since the unit is self contained, besides inefficiencies, what are the dangers of overloading / overheating. I have never put more than 4 logs in, but with that and draft open for the first 10 minutes, I get quite a flame in there.

 

[jatoxico]

Any insight into why I shouldn't be running the blower for 30 mins post a reload of wood?

Again I think it's just generic guidelines that assume the stove won't be to proper operating temp following a reload. As you gaining experience, go outside now and then and see how clean your running. Should be little or no smoke but you may see water vapor in some conditions. If the stove is smoking try to raise the temp by adding air along with lowering fan speed or turning it off if need be.

I have never put more than 4 logs in, but with that and draft open for the first 10 minutes, I get quite a flame in there.

All the more reason to get a thermo so you can monitor what you're doing and avoid over-fire (and under firing for that matter). General procedure is to load the fireplace with air full open. As the fire establishes itself turn down the air in stages allowing it build before re-adjusting air lower. As stove temp comes up you should see evidence of secondary burning. Continue lowering air to desired position which will vary a big day to day and load to load. This procedure will be abbreviated on a warm stove reload.

The idea is to run hot and clean but never allow the stove to get so hot it glows at all. Stove top temps can be quite high at peak temp. I run up to 650 or a bit more regularly and in that case I will set the fan pretty high. As temps drop I may feed in more air and lower fan speed to keep temps up to maintain a clean burn. I believe your stove sticks out onto the hearth so fan speed is less important than mine but still will have some effect.

Its been warm so I and many here are making small hot airy fires since heat demand is low. This is better than choking down a big fire too much since that will result in a dirty burn. As temps drop and draft improves I will be able to make larger fires with bigger chunks of wood but still burn clean.

 

[fcwest14]

jatoxico - thanks again and very helpful. So the issue with the blower post reload, is to avoid it pulling smoke into the house, right, so they want it reestablished before you use the blower (hence the generic 30 mins)? I have been burning pretty clean, especially post the 10 mins of draft fully open post reload. In that case, as long as I am avoiding smoking the stove and subsequently the house with the blower, I should be fine to put it on as soon as burning clean, correct?

 

[fcwest14]

Any other tips for me? Does it seem like I am generally doing things right thus far? Appreciate any input as love using this thus far.

 

[jatoxico]

So the issue with the blower post reload, is to avoid it pulling smoke into the house, right

Your blower will never blow smoke into the house unless something is broken or incorrectly installed (if the blower is blowing smoke something is wrong!). The stove is jacketed meaning you have an inner surface that contains the fire (that's the layer the fire brick is touching) then an outer jacket of metal over that. The blower circulates cool room air between those two layers. As the cool air passes it is heated then expelled into the room. That's why I believe your manual tells you to wait. You do need to wait for the inner layer to get to temp because that is an indirect measure of the stoves interior which needs to get hot for the reasons I already mentioned.

If you run the fan on a cool stove you will keep stripping away heat and delay getting the stove to proper operating temp. But if the stove is at or near operating temp there is no reason to shut the fan if you don't want just because the manual says you should. Again this is where the thermometer comes in, it will help you know where you're at.

Do you have an understanding of secondary burn, have you seen this?

 

[fcwest14]

I don't have a good understanding of secondary burn as completely new to this. Your explanation on the fan was perfect and makes complete sense (and no, no smoke coming on). Also, in terms of thermometer what what you recommend as might have to pick one up now! Thanks again for walking me through this all!

 

[jatoxico]

I don't have a good understanding of secondary burn as completely new to this. Your explanation on the fan was perfect and makes complete sense (and no, no smoke coming on). Also, in terms of thermometer what what you recommend as might have to pick one up now! Thanks again for walking me through this all!

Condar is a favorite thermometer. I have a Rutland, its fine. Try to get one for a stove top not a stove pipe since they have different markings but it doesn't really matter, its the temp that counts. There are a number of pictures and videos here of examples secondary burning or you can youtube it.

Your stove has "burn tubes" up top. The are fed secondary air that you cannot control. When those tubes reach operating temperature the air fed to them will mix with smoke and gases from the wood and ignite. It can look like different things at different times but will often look like a gas BBQ as the flame jets from the holes from the tubes or you'll see wafting gaseous clouds of burning gas (gates of hell). It's actually really cool and mesmerizing. Don't expect this to go on throughout the entire burn cycle, it only occurs while the wood is actively outgassing but can go on for a couple hours at a time.

 

[fcwest14]

OK yes I have seen the secondary burning and its cool as hell! Anything I should know in particular related to that? Also, I am sure the package will tell me, but where do I place the thermometer on the insert? Thanks a ton for all of this. Very informative for me!

 

[begreen]

Place the thermometer on the top of the stove close to center. For reference note that the convection fan will cool down readings by about 100-150F.

 

[jatoxico]

Nothing to know in particular except they (secondaries) don't work cold. Not sure exactly how far your insert extends onto the hearth but try to place the thermometer back from the front of the stove at least a few inches. Mine is center/right in the blower vent but not too close to the flue. I have to use a small flashlight to view it but I have a flush mount stove.

 

[fcwest14]

Place the thermometer on the top of the stove close to center. For reference note that the convection fan will cool down readings by about 100-150F.

Thank you. As a new person not quite sure I understand the second part? Are you able to explain? Also, on placement I assume you don't mean on the top shelf but above the opening? Lastly, for clean read use wet newspaper dipped in ash and wipe down the glass. Should I do when hot, cold or warm? Sorry again about novice questions.

 

[begreen]

Ah, okay that looks more like the Regency I2400 which has a different top than the I2100 or I3100. The I2400 has a convection top. You will need to put the thermometer on the stove face above the left or right corner of the stove door.

It's ok to clean the stove door glass with ash as described, but only do it when the glass is cool or safely just warm to the touch. Otherwise the moisture evaporates too quickly and you end up with a streaky mess.

 

[jatoxico]

Yes BG is right, getting a stove top reading on that unit will be tough. No matter, you will get to know what performance you are getting when your thermometer is reading x,y or z. Another option or addition is to get a small hand held IR thermometer then you can shoot other parts of the stove. I have both since they're all pretty cheap. Just remember no glowing .

 

[fcwest14]

Yes BG is right, getting a stove top reading on that unit will be tough. No matter, you will get to know what performance you are getting when your thermometer is reading x,y or z. Another option or addition is to get a small hand held IR thermometer then you can shoot other parts of the stove. I have both since their all pretty cheap. Just remember no glowing .

I have had this thing PUMPING and never any glowing. Due to the model there won't be a perfect spot then to put it? I'll use the advice BG gave. In terms of sweet spot or optimum burning temps, is there a good link to read or do you mind giving me cliff notes? This things been doing nice today in 30 degree temps in CT. Unfortunately the rest of my house is fighting the heat from the insert! I have whole house off and insert pumping but I have a lot of spaces with cool area trying to keep the living room cold!!

 

[begreen]

Can you post a sketch of the floorplan? Include the stove location. Sometimes there is a relatively simple way to start moving the heat, sometimes not.

 

[jatoxico]

In terms of sweet spot or optimum burning temps, is there a good link to read or do you mind giving me cliff notes?

There's a lot of trial and error and it depends on what you're trying to achieve. Today I'm home and the temps were low 40's now dipping into upper 30's, so smallish fires peaking at 550 and running maybe 50-100 degrees lower is good. Secondaries licking off smoke but no serious gates of hell needed.

If shooting for max output I build a large fire that will peak close to 700 (even more) with all guns a blazin'. Once your temps in the house are stable you may want to shoot for a fire with a long burn time. Same if you want to try for an overnight burn. These all take somewhat different approaches in wood loading and air control trying to get steady heat output.

If it sounds complicated it's really not. This ain't rocket science but there are little things you learn about the stove and wood selection that can make it fun or at least satisfying. For my install and from what others have said, I believe a 500 top is a good ballpark number for a stable burn. You will obviously peak and valley along the way.

 

[Linkswoodwurx]

Hey guys. I have the same stove, and have a stove therm on upper right of door. I am also new to burning wood and really have no clue to what to expect and look for. I tried sticking to the owners manual of all the loading procedures etc.. Letting it burn with air intake open for 10 min or so, before closing air , the fire in this thing is scary! My question I have is when I do that and close air, the fire still seems like it is still burning in a rage! ( which I'm sure is not the secondary burn, it's not the slow motion dancing flames, after a couple hrs I will notice what I believe is the secondary burn, which then only last about an HR then just small flames will flicker off of ash looking logs?)The flames are just rushing thru the air tubes and blasting at the glass. And when doing that I notice that some sections of the air tube, more in the center of unit and the flu brick baffles up top do get red!? ( in some spots)( I also have called regency on the tubes, and they said its hot in there, they will get red!?) when I notice it I'm at around 400-500deg.? Am I doing anything wrong? It also seems to not burn for very long? I am using ash and walnut from this spring. Hot coals also fill up some much, and u can't really put big pieces in. Thanks for letting me chime in.

System set up. Professionally installed with insulated liner and cap, thinks it's between 20-25ft liner.

 

[Linkswoodwurx]

Yes BG is right, getting a stove top reading on that unit will be tough. No matter, you will get to know what performance you are getting when your thermometer is reading x,y or z. Another option or addition is to get a small hand held IR thermometer then you can shoot other parts of the stove. I have both since their all pretty cheap. Just remember no glowing .

No glowing as in on the outside of the unit? I have noticed some red/ glowing on hot sections of the inside air tubes and brick baffle?

 

[blacktail]

Burn tubes can glow some. Not an issue.
Sounds like you need to let the coals burn down more before reloading. Near the end of the burn, when the temp starts to drop, you can increase the air to help them burn. Burning the coals down will let you fit more wood and help keep you from getting a raging inferno too.
Turning the air down sooner, and in stages will also help maintain a more controlled fire.

 

[fcwest14]

begreen - Attached is the floor plan for the main floor. The insert is in the family room where that box is on the top portion. Also, what did you mean by "For reference note that the convection fan will cool down readings by about 100-150F"

jatoxico / begreen - if I get a thermometer that you guys mentioned and put at the location you mentioned, does my stove make it hard to get a good reading? Any tricks

Anyone else - anything else to add? I feel like I am getting a good handle for intro people, but am open to any other tips & tricks.

 

[Triple]

I have never had an insert so I have no knowledge bast or go from but...doesn't that seem like a lot of work?

I have never had to time things or wait for the wood to burn down. I pack the stove when I can and let it burn. I know all stoves have their quarks, like on mine I use the ash pan door to get the fire raging if need be. But I have never had it be so labor intensive.

 

[fcwest14]

bump for additional help / thoughts

 

[begreen]

begreen - Attached is the floor plan for the main floor. The insert is in the family room where that box is on the top portion. Also, what did you mean by "For reference note that the convection fan will cool down readings by about 100-150F"
jatoxico / begreen - if I get a thermometer that you guys mentioned and put at the location you mentioned, does my stove make it hard to get a good reading? Any tricks
Anyone else - anything else to add? I feel like I am getting a good handle for intro people, but am open to any other tips & tricks.

The convection blower will cool down surfaces as air blows over them from the fan. You may not see this as dramatically on the face of the stove where you'll need to put the thermometer. It's easy to check. After the stove has come up to temperature, read the temp, then turn off the blower for 30 minutes and read the temp again.

The house layout and size is going to make it hard to heat far areas like the dining room with the insert. I would focus right now on learning to run the stove well. You should be running full loads of medium to large, well seasoned, splits. The temperature on the face of the insert should reach about 600-650ºF. Once the fire is burning well turn down the air as far as possible without completely squelching the flame. Ideally you want a lot of secondary burn and little or just lazy flames at the logs