New to forum...Jotul Rockland Insert Question

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
  • Hope everyone has a wonderful and warm Thanksgiving!
  • Super Cedar firestarters 30% discount Use code Hearth2024 Click here
Status
Not open for further replies.

GrumpyAeroGuy

New Member
Feb 13, 2016
3
Ohio
New here, but have a question or two for some experienced folks...

I recently replaced a 25+ year old Sierra insert with a new Jotul Rockland 550 Insert.

I have been using it for this winter (since November).

I must say, at this point, I am disappointed, OR, I have no clue what I'm doing, or I am sunk out of the box with a poorly designed piece of junk.

It appears impossible to get this thing to build up heat. What I really mean to say, is build up heat to the point to where it would even COMPETE with my old stove. I ran that Sierra for about 25 years, and had to open the back door of the house, more often than not, to cool things off a bit, assuming I was trying to get that stove that hot. I mean, that Sierra could probably have split flu tile, if that's what someone wanted to achieve.

SO what's the secret? Where am I going wrong?

I am afraid I may already know the answer, and purchased a $4500 boat anchor--- but, I have to ask. I am not claiming to be an authority on stoves, but have been stoking some good fires for 25+ years on my older Sierra.

I actually called my dealer and asked him to bring that Sierra back, and take this amateur-hour Jotul back to where it came from. Unfortunately, he had already gotten rid of it. Told him he scrapped the wrong one and should have scrapped this Jotul pile of scrap iron out of the box.

I use well seasoned, dry wood --- been supplied by the same guy for 20+ years. I believe i am knowledgeable and expereinced enough to know if my wood is good, bad, or in the middle. This batch is dry (measured)--- well, a dry as you're going to get without getting kiln dried. I rate it as good wood.

I did attempt to call Jotul to ask some questions.

If you look up "stiff arm" on wiki, you'll probably see a Jotul logo. I got thru once, and they claim that it is an airtight box (true), and that for emissions control, this is the result.

I have also been a combustion engineer in the aerospace industry for almost 30 years, so that lame excuse they gave me of "EPA Requirements" will not resonate with me. What they were really saying, in my opinion, was, that we piddled around for ever to try to pass emissions, had no clue what we were doing, actually passed, had no clue why, and we took off running. The result? an out of balance fuel air ratio and the inability to run at a high temperature--- designed by someone whose combustion experience is exceeded only by the ability to light a match.

When I asked if they even had a degree d combustion engineer on the premises, they hung up. BTW, if you want to have some fun, download the EPA report that Joutl proudly parades on their web site for this thing.

One critical look at that report by someone that knows what they're looking at will tell you that this is amateur hour thru and thru, and how they got that report accepted is BEYOND ME. I know... I happen to help write cert reports to the EPA and reduce the data that goes into them for the aerospace industry. I am also an emissions expert (for aviation kerosene, not wood).

Pardon my frustration please. I just feel like I gave Jotul a load of cash that they don't deserve in the least. And, they have no customer service.

If someone were to point out my mistakes, or oversight, leading to my inability to get this thing hot, I am all ears.

I appreciate your time in advance.
 
Check the moisture content of your wood.
Verify that the MC is less than 20%. 16 - 18% MC is ideal.
That is generally the reason an older smoke dragon
seemed to put out more heat than a newer EPA - Rated unit.
Jotul has been making wood burning units for 163 years.
They know what they're doing & make a good product.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GrumpyAeroGuy
Agreed. New stoves need dry wood to produce the best heat. Note that the firebox size of the Jotul is smaller when compared with the old Sierra. Less wood is going to mean less maximum heat. If this is an exterior chimney installation, adding an insulated block-off plate at the damper area can help reduce heat loss from the insert.
 
Agreed. New stoves need dry wood to produce the best heat. Note that the firebox size of the Jotul is smaller when compared with the old Sierra. Less wood is going to mean less maximum heat. If this is an exterior chimney installation, adding an insulated block-off plate at the damper area can help reduce heat loss from the insert.

I will check wood moisture content again, just to be sure. It IS an exterior chimney installation, and, I did have an insulated block-off plate put in.

I knew from my sierra days that my chimney had a very significant back draft characteristic, so I asked the chimney co (they were awesome --- old world craftsmen) to insulate around everything to minimize that problem, which they did.

THank you for your response.
 
Check the moisture content of your wood.
Verify that the MC is less than 20%. 16 - 18% MC is ideal.
That is generally the reason an older smoke dragon
seemed to put out more heat than a newer EPA - Rated unit.
Jotul has been making wood burning units for 163 years.
They know what they're doing & make a good product.

Thank you for your response. I will check that...

I am less concerned with the physical stove quality itself, which, I agree, appears good, and pretty solid. I am only questioning the combustion engineering. My informal assessment after looking at diagrams in the manual and looking over my stove when it was cold lead me to believe that it may be worth while to hire a good consulting engineer. I'll bet they could get far better than they are from that perspective.

I'll bet boring out those air tube holes to a larger diameter would help a lot, but would probably push them above emissions thresholds.

I do believe they could have put higher capacity blowers on them--- and my thermocouple has already "ceased to operate", even though I don't use that too much. It's very convenient if you leave a fire going overnight, and, as it cools down the fans shuts down on its own.

It's still under warranty so I will get that replaced by the dealer.
 
I will check wood moisture content again, just to be sure. It IS an exterior chimney installation, and, I did have an insulated block-off plate put in.

I knew from my sierra days that my chimney had a very significant back draft characteristic, so I asked the chimney co (they were awesome --- old world craftsmen) to insulate around everything to minimize that problem, which they did.

THank you for your response.
Good installation. Mod BrotherBart had an old Sierra insert that he replaced with a freestanding Englander 30NC which has at least a third larger capacity of the C550.
 
I do believe they could have put higher capacity blowers on them--- and my thermocouple has already "ceased to operate", even though I don't use that too much. It's very convenient if you leave a fire going overnight, and, as it cools down the fans shuts down on its own.

It's still under warranty so I will get that replaced by the dealer.

If you are referring to the thermodisk that actuates the blowers, check to make sure it is still in contact with the underside of the firebox...
 
Maybe a stupid question but are you closing down the air intake,if not all your heat is going up the flue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jotulguy
Status
Not open for further replies.