New to me EKO 60 and storage online (sorta)

[Woodman1]

Its been a long drawn out ordeal for me to get to this point, but I feel compelled to write this thread and give a big thanks to this forum and all that contribute to it. A little background, 2007 we were in the building stages of our current home and I was completely engulfed with the construction project. One thing I was sure of though, after years of having an add on furnace in the basement in our first house I was done with having a fire in the house. I was going to have an owb to heat the house, garage, and dhw. And I did, and 10 years later I do. It is still heating the house, garage, and dhw. I never will forget how excited I was that day I started the first fire in it and then how I stood there in disappointment as I watched how much wood it consumed to get itself up to temperature. It was at that point, that first day I knew I had probably made a mistake. But, you sleep in the bed you make and I have tried to make the best of it. In all fairness it has done exactly what it was advertised to do,and saved me a ton of money in fossil fuel costs. I typically load it up twice a day from wood that I cut and process myself and it keeps us warm.

In the meantime, I had came across this site quite a while ago. At first I was completely blown away with some of the complexities and set ups some guys have. Then after a while I started to grasp some of the concepts and what was really going on, and where I wanted to be. I knew I had all the right parts already installed inside the house and thermopex in the ground, so for the last 5 years I have been slowly accumulating the components I need to make the switch. I found a lightly used EKO 60 for a pretty good price, I was able to find both a 1000 gallon and 120 gallon propane tanks at a local scrap yard and convert them to storage and expansion. I had built a woodshed next to my owb and have been slowly converting half of it into a boiler and storage room. I moved my thermopex over into the room and just ran a temporary lineset from it to the owb,

At this point I have the EKO plumbed with 1.5" to the storage in a 2 pipe configuration but not tied to the thermopex. For now I have the storage wraped with fiberglass and the boiler room pretty well buttoned up. I have not disconnected my owb, it is still my heat source as I have been slowly testing my new to me system. I have been learning as I go building small fires and sending the heat to storage. The heat this thing puts out in full tilt is impressive. As close as I am, I am still not ready to cut the cord just yet. I have some small pesky drips that I need to get sealed up and I want to have the storage tank sprayed with closed cell this spring. I still need to decide on what temp probes for the storage, and I have a little more insulating to do in the boiler room. I will try to post a few pics as I can but things are still a mess as I pick away with this project. Thanks again to everyone who contributes to this forum, I wouldn't be to this point without it. More to come...........and if anybody is in the market for a good used owb..............

 

[taxidermist]

Its been a long drawn out ordeal for me to get to this point, but I feel compelled to write this thread and give a big thanks to this forum and all that contribute to it. A little background, 2007 we were in the building stages of our current home and I was completely engulfed with the construction project. One thing I was sure of though, after years of having an add on furnace in the basement in our first house I was done with having a fire in the house. I was going to have an owb to heat the house, garage, and dhw. And I did, and 10 years later I do. It is still heating the house, garage, and dhw. I never will forget how excited I was that day I started the first fire in it and then how I stood there in disappointment as I watched how much wood it consumed to get itself up to temperature. It was at that point, that first day I knew I had probably made a mistake. But, you sleep in the bed you make and I have tried to make the best of it. In all fairness it has done exactly what it was advertised to do,and saved me a ton of money in fossil fuel costs. I typically load it up twice a day from wood that I cut and process myself and it keeps us warm.

In the meantime, I had came across this site quite a while ago. At first I was completely blown away with some of the complexities and set ups some guys have. Then after a while I started to grasp some of the concepts and what was really going on, and where I wanted to be. I knew I had all the right parts already installed inside the house and thermopex in the ground, so for the last 5 years I have been slowly accumulating the components I need to make the switch. I found a lightly used EKO 60 for a pretty good price, I was able to find both a 1000 gallon and 120 gallon propane tanks at a local scrap yard and convert them to storage and expansion. I had built a woodshed next to my owb and have been slowly converting half of it into a boiler and storage room. I moved my thermopex over into the room and just ran a temporary lineset from it to the owb,

At this point I have the EKO plumbed with 1.5" to the storage in a 2 pipe configuration but not tied to the thermopex. For now I have the storage wraped with fiberglass and the boiler room pretty well buttoned up. I have not disconnected my owb, it is still my heat source as I have been slowly testing my new to me system. I have been learning as I go building small fires and sending the heat to storage. The heat this thing puts out in full tilt is impressive. As close as I am, I am still not ready to cut the cord just yet. I have some small pesky drips that I need to get sealed up and I want to have the storage tank sprayed with closed cell this spring. I still need to decide on what temp probes for the storage, and I have a little more insulating to do in the boiler room. I will try to post a few pics as I can but things are still a mess as I pick away with this project. Thanks again to everyone who contributes to this forum, I wouldn't be to this point without it. More to come...........and if anybody is in the market for a good used owb..............

Glad you got it up and running.

 

[Bad LP]

There is a lot to grasp and get your head around with the wood boiler thing.

 

[Woodman1]

So I had a little hick up the other day, and just when I was starting to trust this thing lol!! Storage temp was down so I started a fire, got things ripping then left with probably less than a 1/2 loaded firebox. When I came back 3 hours later the controller was dead (circulator off) most of the wood was gone, boiler was at 190. Power was still on but the controller wasn't. I couldn't find anything obviously wrong so I checked the fuse in the controller. Fuse was fine so I put it back in, flipped the breaker and the controller was back to life. The problem is I didn't fix anything and I don't know what caused the problem in the first place. I've ran the boiler the last couple of days and everything seems fine. Any thoughts?

My next question is, I am now a little gun shy so I have been running smaller fires, but for a longer period of time. Is operating the boiler this way as effecient as large fires for a shorter time? I don't get the large blow torch like flames but more of a gentle flame out of the nozzle's. Just curious how you guys do it? Thanks

 

[Hydronics]

If the boiler was at 190, the circulator should have been running (assuming you wired the controller to it as designed). Was the small circulator light not lit?
Did the controller have a code like "Fuel" or did it display the temp before you touched any buttons?
Check out the following link starting at P.23. It will help you understand how the controller logic works.
Does yours have the newer RK 2001-UA Controller? I believe the older one only allowed a max temp of 176F.
http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/ekomanual.pdf
Try to be patient with it, in my opinion the controller logic and capabilities are pretty good.

You'll notice varying flame output throughout a burn depending on how much solid wood is left, moisture content, refractory temp, etc.
As a side note I run my 60 on only 1 nozzle and 1 fan and have done so since I installed it.

 

[Woodman1]

That was the problem, the controller was dead, like the main switch was off even though there was power going to it.

 

[Woodman1]

Yes it is the newer RK-2001UA

 

[Hydronics]

You didn't answer:
Was the small circulator light not lit?
Did the controller have a code like "Fuel" or did it display the temp before you touched any buttons?

If it acted like the switch was off then when you walked up to it the display showed nothing, correct?

 

[Woodman1]

When I walked in the circulator light was not on, there was nothing on the display. There was NO power at the controller so there was no way the circulator could run, or for the controller to flash a code. There was power up to the controller but it was not going through the controller. The main switch for the controller was on but it acted like the main switch was off. When I removed then reinstalled the controller fuse (which was fine) the controller turned back on, the circulator and indicator light turned on, there was no code and everything appeared normal again.

 

[3fordasho]

When I walked in the circulator light was not on, there was nothing on the display. There was NO power at the controller so there was no way the circulator could run, or for the controller to flash a code. There was power up to the controller but it was not going through the controller. The main switch for the controller was on but it acted like the main switch was off. When I removed then reinstalled the controller fuse (which was fine) the controller turned back on, the circulator and indicator light turned on, there was no code and everything appeared normal again.

Sounds like an intermittent power connection issue. Time to check all terminals for corrosion and tightness. Replacing the fuse might have disturbed the offending connection, temporarily fixing it.

 

[Hydronics]

Yeah, sounds like a short in the controller. If it happens again, I'd get a replacement. I think they're a bit over $200 from New Horizon.
Good idea to have a spare, I'm on my second one, they aren't the most robust.

 

[Woodman1]

Yeah, sounds like a short in the controller. If it happens again, I'd get a replacement. I think they're a bit over $200 from New Horizon.
Good idea to have a spare, I'm on my second one, they aren't the most robust.

So I took my controller out and apart, checked all the pin connections and blew it out with compressed air. There was a fair amount of dust in it. Other than that everything seemed pretty tight. I've had it plugged in and on inside the house for the last 24 hours, so far so good. I will probably order another and just keep this one for spare. In the mean time I was playing around with the parameter settings and I have 2 extra parameters that are not in the manual. When you first go into the service mode the fan pressure is up, just like the manual. Than I have 2 that are not in the manual, the first is n40 The second is Nh4. Than the rest are all the same as listed in the manual. I have no idea what these 2 extra's control. A couple other goofy things I have found is not all of the min-max options match what is listed. For example I can launch the pump up to 170 vs 160 as stated in the manual. Some of the defaults are different too like the Fd default is"--". I guess it doesn't matter but I am curious what the other 2 parameters are for? The controller says RK-2001U, maybe it's a earlier version of the UA??

 

[Hydronics]

I don't remember if mine has those 2 parameters, they sound familiar though.
Did you reset to the default values?
If your max temp is 195F, I believe you have the newest one.

Side note: There is nothing glamorous about the EKO boilers but bang for the buck it's tough to beat. At the end of the day most of burn wood primarily to save money. If you tie up $30K in a system you'll probably never get your ROI - might as well pay the oil man...

 

[salecker]

A similar thing happened with my Econoburn a few weeks ago.I was going to bypass the controller,which i had to do years ago and run it off an extension cord.My original controller had issues and quit.
I turned the power back on to see if it was something simple.still dead.Started to wiggle some connections on the controller and it came to life.One connector had a bad connection which had arced and pitted the pin.I cleaned the pin and it's been fine since.
And if you have storage(which you do) there shouldn't be an issue with a fully loaded boiler that loses power.The laws of thermodynamics will keep working and your heat will still find it's way to storage.If your boiler is like mine the fire will basically act like the boiler is in idle mode.

 

[3fordasho]

Side note: There is nothing glamorous about the EKO boilers but bang for the buck it's tough to beat. At the end of the day most of burn wood primarily to save money. If you tie up $30K in a system you'll probably never get your ROI - might as well pay the oil man...

And it wouldn't take long to get there ($30K). 9-12K for a modern downdraft gasifier, 13.6K for a Garn JR. fittings, storage, underground lines, pumps, emitters, it adds up quick. If propane stays a little over a buck/gallon there is no pay back period. Not sure how they are even selling these things with current fuel pricing.

 

[Woodman1]

Ya this stuff adds up quick. However my home furnace burns fuel oil which is still around $2.50-$3.00 and I would go through about 1000 gallons per year. Natural gas is not available and to switch over to propane I would guess would be around 3-5k for furnace and install. Like most projects this one is going above my estimated budget too. Even buying everything used and doing all the work myself I am getting close to 4k in the EKO, storage and expansion tanks and storage plumbing. The EKO came with triple wall chimney and all of the back of boiler components (danfos, circulator, air seperator, gauges ect) I will have another $500.00 in spray foam (for storage tanks) and I am sure another $500.00 somewhere else so figure at least 5k+. I paid $5500.00 for just my OWB 10 years ago and am hoping to get $1500.00 selling it. Everthing in the house and in the ground can be used with the new system. I can't really call it a loss because the owb has heated my house for the last 10 years. But, if you add the $4000.00 I "lost" in the owb to the 5k I will have in the EKO I think I will be close to what I would have had into everything had I bought it new 10 years ago and would have had NO idea what I was doing. At least when I think of it that way it makes me feel better! Lol

 

[Hydronics]

No doubt - I installed everything myself also but you can tie up a lot of cash in a hurry. I bought the boiler when the feds had a $1500 rebate for qualifying boilers.
The good thing is we can now use our free time that we don't have to cut firewood... I do mind doing it, I just wish I had more time. When you retire and have time, your body may not be up to it. So it goes I guess...

 

[Highbeam]

And it wouldn't take long to get there ($30K). 9-12K for a modern downdraft gasifier, 13.6K for a Garn JR. fittings, storage, underground lines, pumps, emitters, it adds up quick. If propane stays a little over a buck/gallon there is no pay back period. Not sure how they are even selling these things with current fuel pricing.

Exactly why my 1800 sf shop is sitting with 1800 lf of unused radiant tubing in the slab.