New to pellet world

[PennPellet]

Hi all,

I have recently started to research Pellet Stoves. I am currently burning oil to heat my new home --- and the price is just too much. The house is only partially insulated at the moment, I plan on finishing the insulation in the spring.

In the meantime, I want to try to heat, at least partially, with a pellet stove. My home is split level 1200-1300 sq ft.

I've gone to five local dealers and the going price for a 42,000 btu unit is around $3000 (not including pipes, install, etc).

I really liked the Avalon that I saw, although they all looked and seemed to work fine and were quite.

But I've also seen substantially cheaper stoves online from Home Depot and Lowes -- ranging from $1000-$2000. It seems that Englander is reliable , but i have seen many negative comments about the unit being noisy and auger/feeding issues.

the unit will be placed in between my living room and kitchen so I hope noise is at a minimum.

So i want to get some opinions:

1) Is $3000 too much for a 42,000 btu unit from a dealer?

2) Is going to a dealer worth it? is servicing a realistic DIY project, or should i trust a professional?

3) are the units (namely Englander) from Home Depot/Lowes comparable to the dealer units (Harmon, Travis, etc...) in reliability and noise?

Thanks in advance.

 

[kofkorn]

So i want to get some opinions:

1) Is $3000 too much for a 42,000 btu unit from a dealer?

2) Is going to a dealer worth it? is servicing a realistic DIY project, or should i trust a professional?

3) are the units (namely Englander) from Home Depot/Lowes comparable to the dealer units (Harmon, Travis, etc...) in reliability and noise?

To answer your questions with my OPINIONS:

1) $3000 would be too much for me. With the Englander unit, you could get the stove, vent pipe, and probably at least a years worth of pellets for that price.

2) This depends upon your confidence in your handyman abilities. The Englander stove can be disassembled completely by a person with general skills and basic tools. Most of the normal repair items (auger motors, blowers, sensors) could be replaced in about 20 min.

3) In my opinion, you will see a pretty even level of issues and complaints about most stove brands on this site. I bought my stove in 2008, and other that basic maintenance parts such as gaskets, I've never had to replace a part. Still have the original blowers, augers, even the ignitor hasn't been changed. Reliability for me is good. The main difference is that with the Englanders, you will be doing any repair work yourself, with information from Mike Holton on here, whereas going through a dealer, you would be paying for service / maintenance.

I can't comment too much on the noise level, as I have never evaluated other brands, but for me, the blower on my 25PDV stays on high all winter long right in my dining room. My in-laws have a PDVC that they keep in their living room and they try to keep the blower as low as possible because the noise level bothers them.

It comes down to the normal trade offs. If you don't mind getting your hands dirty and want to save some significant money, go with the englander. If you want to minimize interaction then spend the extra money and go with the stove with full support. Please understand, there is a significant amount of work needed with ANY pellet stove.

Good luck with your choice!

 

[jdinny]

That was what I was going to do till I stopped at a dealer and saw a Harman stove run, and found how much easier they are to maintain.
I bought a P43(43,000btu) for 2500.00, excel pipe for 275.50, hearth pad for 275.00(no time to make our own), and a battery backup for 65.00, for a total of 3115.50.
I installed it myself saving a few hundred bucks there, and probably could have built the heart pad for 50 bucks.
We installed it New Years day, and aside from the normal scraping the burn pot, just fed it pellets. it was as low as -14* for three days and it kept our house nice and cozy without the boiler running.
Today, it was warm out, so I did a cleaning on the stove, not that it needed it, but just wanted to do it. It took me all of about 25 minutes, and I'm sure I will cut off 5 or 10 minutes now that I know what to do.
We have an open floor plan, 2140 sq ft cape chalet with vaulted ceiling in the family room. 1340 sq ft on main floor, with an 800 sq ft master br/bath upstairs. We left the French doors open to the mbr upstairs, and have burned 12 bags of pellets since 1/1/14 at 3 in the afternoon. The stove has been set on room temp-auto and is performing absolutely flawless, much better than we ever expected.
I would seriously consider weighing all your options before I went with a box store stove.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[Ctcarl]

Im a newb but have learned some hard knocks.I bought a used stove and did barter to have it installed. The guy installed it with a half way wrking damper system.So after having 2 chimmney fires even after I was cleaning tflu.Be careful what you get. Now if your very mechanical then a basic box store stove may wrk.After waking up at 1 am with the house full of smoke I decided to not be cheap on this.After doing lots of research I found the Harman to be the best stove for me. I am not a wealthy man and saved up a year and payed $3900 out the door new pipe and all. The old one was so gunked up with tar like cresite I had to start from scratch.So what ever you choose do lots of research. For me my stove is a member of the family.give it love and it will love you back.Good luck and what ever you choose hope it's wrks well.Oh btw I have so far only put 100 gallons of oil and gnna do another 100 and shoulder get me out if winter.Before I was using 200 to 250 gallon a month. Now that was a lot if $.

 

[newf lover]

That was what I was going to do till I stopped at a dealer and saw a Harman stove run, and found how much easier they are to maintain.
I bought a P43(43,000btu) for 2500.00, excel pipe for 275.50, hearth pad for 275.00(no time to make our own), and a battery backup for 65.00, for a total of 3115.50.
I installed it myself saving a few hundred bucks there, and probably could have built the heart pad for 50 bucks.
We installed it New Years day, and aside from the normal scraping the burn pot, just fed it pellets. it was as low as -14* for three days and it kept our house nice and cozy without the boiler running.
Today, it was warm out, so I did a cleaning on the stove, not that it needed it, but just wanted to do it. It took me all of about 25 minutes, and I'm sure I will cut off 5 or 10 minutes now that I know what to do.
We have an open floor plan, 2140 sq ft cape chalet with vaulted ceiling in the family room. 1340 sq ft on main floor, with an 800 sq ft master br/bath upstairs. We left the French doors open to the mbr upstairs, and have burned 12 bags of pellets since 1/1/14 at 3 in the afternoon. The stove has been set on room temp-auto and is performing absolutely flawless, much better than we ever expected.
I would seriously consider weighing all your options before I went with a box store stove.
Good luck with your decision.

Make sure that kitty doesn't step off that hopper onto the main part of the stove. He/she would burn her pads off, at least my P68 would do that. Not sure about the P43.

 

[jdinny]

Make sure that kitty doesn't step off that hopper onto the main part of the stove. He/she would burn her pads off, at least my P68 would do that. Not sure about the P43.

Yes, the P43 would also burn her pads.
Our two Savanah's learned quickly, the dobe on the other hand still has to be told no.

 

[Hoot23]

Make sure that kitty doesn't step off that hopper onto the main part of the stove. He/she would burn her pads off, at least my P68 would do that. Not sure about the P43.

Our cats do it every year at the beginning of each burn season.

 

[jslinger]

I have no experience with Avalon or Englander stoves. But I do have a family member with a Harman, and a budget stove. There is no comparison between the two. Although it isn't all the case, you often get what you pay for. If you have a Harman dealer near you, I highly recommend you go and check out a P43. They are so easy to live with. Just set the room temp, and feed it pellets.
I would personally have the dealer install it. But it certainly depends on how handy you are.

 

[2011 GT/CS]

I have an Englander pdvc25 and a Harman p43. The Englander is good, but it Doesn't compare to the Harman, it is hands downThe best purchase I ever made. Good lunch in your decision. And welcome to the club.

 

[John Fortier]

We love our insert and have not spent a dime on oil and the way things are going will not until 2015. We bought a floor model and saved $1000.00. Had some newb issues all is great now. Like I always tell my customers.." You only cry once when you pay for quality" Was never an option to go to Lows or Home Cheapo. This is only my opinion.

 

[Mt Bob]

Friends out here have englanders almost as old as my stove.A little on the noisy side(older ones) with good durability,low repairs.I would consider one if I needed one.A couple of things,a pellet stove is a space heater,and if your house is not sealed and insulated,buy a big one.Also if you go the big box store route you may not get a local stove tech. to work on it.

 

[BigJohnfromCT]

Welcome to the world of pellets. Lots of really smart people here, present company excluded. Quadrafire Mount Vernon AE. Cost a few more bucks than I wanted to spend but runs great and looks real good. Service it myself. Easy.

 

[tjnamtiw]

I just can't help it again! You live in Pennsylvania, land of cheap coal and there's a whole new breed of efficient, CLEAN, free standing and inserts that burn good ole Pa. Anthracite! Twice the btu's per hour out of the stove and coal has way more btu's per pound and the price is stable at about $220 a ton depending on where you live.
http://nepacrossroads.com/
http://readingstove.com/
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/
http://www.keystoker.com

 

[scajjr2]

We bought our Harman P43 Dec 6th. It replaced an old wood/coal stove and is vented into the existing chimney. We paid $2700 for the P43 (there is a $100 off coupon on Harman's web site), got a free ton of Currans Softwood pellets with the stove purchase and the venting pipe and chimney adapter cost us about $150. Another $160 for a SkyTech 3301p wireless programmable thermostat. Existing tile hearth from the woodstove and I did the pellet stove install. $60 for an ash vac.

We choose the Harman because even though I was a electro-mechanicial field service tech for 25 years we wanted a stove that required fairly minimal maintenance AND would burn just about ANY brand of pellet well. And after reading posts here for a year, Harman seemed to be the brand that would do that for us.
We have a 1600 sqft 2-story, the chimney is in the center of the house, hearth just off stairway to upstairs (3 bedrooms and a bath). During the recent cold snap (0-+5F) the downstairs was 70, upstairs 68. Over this past weekend with it about 45-50F outside the whole house was 75 with the stove in just a maintenance burn mode(stove set in Room Temp/Manual mode, when thermostat doesn't call for heat stove just stays in a minimal burn) from about 10AM-9PM. The house was built in 1982, is very well insulated and we're adding another layer in the attic this spring.
I've cleaned it about every 2 weeks, takes about 20-30 minutes.

Sam

 

[iceguy4]

yes fuel availability should factor into your decision. If I lived where I could get coal easy, ...For the BTU's /$$ ...better then pellets. You ant go wrong. Payback will be fast!!

I think you owe it to your self to visit a Harman dealer.

 

[PennPellet]

P43

I just can't help it again! You live in Pennsylvania, land of cheap coal and there's a whole new breed of efficient, CLEAN, free standing and inserts that burn good ole Pa. Anthracite! Twice the btu's per hour out of the stove and coal has way more btu's per pound and the price is stable at about $220 a ton depending on where you live.
http://nepacrossroads.com/
http://readingstove.com/
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/
http://www.keystoker.com

Definitely worth looking into.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[PennPellet]

Thanks

I have an Englander pdvc25 and a Harman p43. The Englander is good, but it Doesn't compare to the Harman, it is hands downThe best purchase I ever made. Good lunch in your decision. And welcome to the club.

Thanks for the info.
Could you be more specific as to why you prefer the Harman to the Englander?
Thanks!!

 

[PennPellet]

I have no experience with Avalon or Englander stoves. But I do have a family member with a Harman, and a budget stove. There is no comparison between the two. Although it isn't all the case, you often get what you pay for. If you have a Harman dealer near you, I highly recommend you go and check out a P43. They are so easy to live with. Just set the room temp, and feed it pellets.
I would personally have the dealer install it. But it certainly depends on how handy you are.

Thanks for the reply!

Could you be more specific as to why you prefer the Harman to Englander? Are you basing that on heating ability, efficiency, noise, reliability?

Thanks again

 

[jslinger]

I personally don't have experience with Englander stoves. But I could not be happier with my Harman.
My XXV (50,000 btu's) heats my 1800 sq ft home without breaking a sweat. All I do is set the room temp, feed it pellets, and scrape the burn pot daily.
I do a light cleaning once a week (15 minutes), and a full cleaning every month (45 minutes).
My father, who has a Harman, and another stove he paid around $1500 for, (not sure of the brand) says the ease of use and build quality of the Harman is certainly worth the extra money. I have a friend with an Englander who likes it. He has only owned it for a couple of months. But he just wishes it were easier to control. He looks at the controls on mine, and says he's jealous. That is what is nice about the Harman. Set the thermostat and leave it.
Since 2011 GT owns both, he seems like the person to talk to. I would certainly take his opinion with more weight than mine, since I don't have experience with the Englander.
And like he says,

Good lunch in your decision.

 

[saladdin]

Research. This is a product where if the choice is between a cheap big box stove and no stove then I'd go for no stove. Not saying you need to pay 3k but quality is really what you want. Generally speaking, to me there is a very big gap between the big box stoves and the ones we are talking about. Know where you want to install because you need to do some ciphering on heat flow. Quality stove and heat flow are 1a and 1b in my book.


cab50. 50k btus. Got mine 3 seasons ago for 2k installed. Your area prices will differ of course.

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/brochures/ECO_Pellet_Stove.pdf)

 

[tjnamtiw]

Research. This is a product where if the choice is between a cheap big box stove and no stove then I'd go for no stove. Not saying you need to pay 3k but quality is really what you want. Generally speaking, to me there is a very big gap between the big box stoves and the ones we are talking about. Know where you want to install because you need to do some ciphering on heat flow. Quality stove and heat flow are 1a and 1b in my book.


cab50. 50k btus. Got mine 3 seasons ago for 2k installed. Your area prices will differ of course.

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/brochures/ECO_Pellet_Stove.pdf)

While I am NOT an Englander brand stove owner, you will find a LOT of very satisfied owners of Englander Brand stoves on this forum. To label them as 'big box stoves' is IMHO a disservice to a very good stove and the best service, from what I've read here over the years. I believe the 'big box stores' are now selling USSC stoves and not Englander. Might be wrong for the first time this year. :{

 

[kofkorn]

I agree with TJ above. It all really depends on what you are looking for. With the Englanders, there is more hands-on work as compared with other brands, but you can order parts direct and maintain yourself. With some of the other brands, any parts MUST be ordered through a dealer. I'm a very DIY guy, and I have a hard time remembering the last time I had a contractor working on something in my house. The Englander is a perfect match for me. I'm trading some hands-on time for reduced cost. If you want to keep your hands clean and have minimal interaction, then certainly go with another brand.

 

[Lake Girl]

Lots to factor into the decision ... size of space, BTU output, price point, ease of cleaning, ease of repair (by self or others), availability of parts, style/looks.

Welcome to the forum and let us know what your decision is...

 

[BrotherBart]

I just removed a few posts that added nothing to the thread. Folks lets give posters the benefit of our actual experience, not our opinion of something we have never owned or used.

 

[webbie]

Thanks for the reply!

Could you be more specific as to why you prefer the Harman to Englander? Are you basing that on heating ability, efficiency, noise, reliability?

Thanks again

I think the others said it well. In order to sell for low prices, companies like Englander have to spend less on R&D (engineering head count and costs) and have to sell the same models for more years. It's a pretty simple equation.

That doesn't mean the "tried and true" is bad, just that you can't put them in the same boat.

In sales they say "an arse for every seat" - that's true in cars, houses and even hearth products. Comparing an Englander and a Harman is like comparing a Harbour Freight tool to a Estwing or a Milwaukee. I should mention I have a bunch of HF tools and I like most all of them. But I also have Milwaukee, Makita and Hitachi tools, etc.