New woodstove recommendations maybe and/or opinions on chimney issues

[pittpens24]

Hey Everyone,
Let me start off by saying that I have been burning wood from the same stove for 25 years now. It is a VC Defiant. This is the only stove I have ever owner. I burn from Nov to March 24/7. Never had one issue with this stove - replaced the gaskets and firebricks maybe 2 or 3 times and cat only one time in all those years! Always had a huge problem with creosote build up - have to clean the chimney twice a year per burning cycle(which sucks to have to shut down the stove). I have a cape so my chimney is very tall - maybe 20-25 ft up from the thimble. One problem I have right off the start is that I am going from an 8" to 6" right at the thimble to a 7" square(inside) masonry chimney liner. The last company that cleaned my chimney said the cresote is all because of me choking the defiant down to 6". They are telling me that I need a new stove with a 6" flue pipe and are also suggesting that let them break out the masonry liner and put in a new stainless steel liner up inside the chimney. I know a stainless liner will stay warmer longer and draft better.

My questions to you:
All of the above sounds legit but is it?
Do I need to downsize to a 6" output stove?
Do you advise doing the Stainless liner?
Can I do the liner and keep my stove as is?
SInce all I ever had was this one VC Defiant, what other stove would you recommend? See details below:

I mentioned before that I have a Cape Cod Style. It is a log cabin with a great room and cathedral ceilings and a loft. Probably 25 ft high from floor to peak. I have 3 ceiling fans to help circulate the air around. Square footage of entire 1st floor is 1200. 1964 total with upstairs(door stays shut because it gets too hot). Not sure how to calculate sq ft for the volume of area, but think the Defiant is a little big for that area as I have only ever managed to run at 3/4 throttle from time to time. Mostly it is set to 1/2 or 3/8 throttle during the night and day when we are sleeping and at work. The big firebox is nice because I can load at 5:30 am and still have enough coals when I get home at 5:30-6pm to keep her going. That being said, a small stove means a smaller firebox so I need to be careful to be able to keep a 12 hour burn cycle. I love the top load feature so I can really pack it If I did have to give it up, I would consider a front load only. Really like having an ash pan as well - mostly because you can "blast furnace" the coals to get those new splits going. Lastly, my wife only likes the classic look of the cast iron stoves so no soapstone or steel please.

I know this is alot to ask, but any help would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Even old stoves can be run clean given they are ran at hot enough temperatures and with dry wood. What is your fuel like? If you can give us and idea via either moisture content readings or how long its been split stacked and covered that will be a great place to start.

Regarding your flue, yes choking down your diameter will reduce draft but you do have some good length to help counter act that. Is the current liner insulated? If not that can be another contributor to creosote, especially if you are burning low smoldering fires.

 

[pittpens24]

Ty for answering so quickly.
Split, stacked and covered for 1 year. Birch, ash and oak.

Currently have a masonry liner

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Ty for answering so quickly.
Split, stacked and covered for 1 year. Birch, ash and oak.

Currently have a masonry liner

Sounds good, yes an uninsulated masonry liner run in that fashion will be a creosote factory. You would see less buildup with an insulated liner and potentially less with a new stove.

Birch and Ash should be "fine" in a year but oak won't be ready most of the time and you will find you run in to issues with a modern stove functioning well. Look into moisture meters on this site, and really have good fuel before you are into a new stove.

Pacific Energy, Blaze king, Jotul, Moreso are all classic looking modern stoves that are respected on this site. Vermont castings seems to not be particularly favored on this site due to being quirky to run, however you will find people here running them just fine.

 

[stoveliker]

The ingredients for creosote come from either wet wood and/or choking down the stove too much.
The accumulation happens when the exhaust gases cool down too much so that water can condense in the chimney, capturing smoke particles.

Oak split one year is likely too wet. Ash may be good. Birch I don't know but might be good too.

Cooldown happens when a flue expands (from 6 to 7"), when the flue is not keeping in enough heat (because there is no insulated liner), and it's tall to boot.(More time to cool down).

I think your chimney company is correct - if you insulate the liner.

Whether a 6" would work with the current stove, probably (though you may get a little smoke roll out when the doors are open).

 

[pittpens24]

Sounds good, yes an uninsulated masonry liner run in that fashion will be a creosote factory. You would see less buildup with an insulated liner and potentially less with a new stove.

Birch and Ash should be "fine" in a year but oak won't be ready most of the time and you will find you run in to issues with a modern stove functioning well. Look into moisture meters on this site, and really have good fuel before you are into a new stove.

Pacific Energy, Blaze king, Jotul, Moreso are all classic looking modern stoves that are respected on this site. Vermont castings seems to not be particularly favored on this site due to being quirky to run, however you will find people here running them just fine.

I have a moisture meter at work, I'll bring it home just to see where I'm at

 

[stoveliker]

Good idea!
Do put a few splits inside for 24 hrs so they get up to room temp. *then* split them in half so you can measure (in the middle, along the grain) on the freshly exposed surface to get the inside moisture content rather than that of the dried-out outside.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Good idea!
Do put a few splits inside for 24 hrs so they get up to room temp. *then* split them in half so you can measure (in the middle, along the grain) on the freshly exposed surface to get the inside moisture content rather than that of the dried-out outside.

This. Any deviation from this will lead to inaccurate readings

 

[pittpens24]

The ingredients for creosote come from either wet wood and/or choking down the stove too much.
The accumulation happens when the exhaust gases cool down too much so that water can condense in the chimney, capturing smoke particles.

Oak split one year is likely too wet. Ash may be good. Birch I don't know but might be good too.

Cooldown happens when a flue expands (from 6 to 7"), when the flue is not keeping in enough heat (because there is no insulated liner), and it's tall to boot.(More time to cool down).

I think your chimney company is correct - if you insulate the liner.

Whether a 6" would work with the current stove, probably (though you may get a little smoke roll out when the doors are open).

Seems I am doing both - choking it down to last 12 hours and having that cooldown issue with only a few coals left to start it back up. Birch is a really soft wood - little harder than pine, little softer than cherry. Dries alot quicker than the Oak - that is for sure. I guess I should have mentioned that it has been cut to length for a couple years - then split, stacked and covered for a year(if that makes any difference lol)

 

[pittpens24]

This. Any deviation from this will lead to inaccurate readings

I have a Delmhorst moisture meter with 2" prongs - still will not read accurate if pounded into the end?

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

I have a Delmhorst moisture meter with 2" prongs - still will not read accurate if pounded into the end?

Id split it, you want the center of the center of your pieces. It will surprise you how much water hides there.

 

[stoveliker]

Seems I am doing both - choking it down to last 12 hours and having that cooldown issue with only a few coals left to start it back up. Birch is a really soft wood - little harder than pine, little softer than cherry. Dries alot quicker than the Oak - that is for sure. I guess I should have mentioned that it has been cut to length for a couple years - then split, stacked and covered for a year(if that makes any difference lol)

A cooldown at the end of a burn is not a problem as not much (any) smoke is produced. It's the cooldown of the initially hot gases as they radiate heat outward while in the chimney. (And the slowing of their speed, leading to more time spent in, upon increasing the diameter of the chimney.)
Wood does not really dry much at all if it's cut into rounds. Drying really only starts upon splitting and stacking off the ground. (Top covered, sides open.)

Others know birch better. I've dealt with pine (1 year), ash (I prefer 2 years), and a lot of oak (3 years ideal, though some burn it after 2).

I have a Delmhorst moisture meter with 2" prongs - still will not read accurate if pounded into the end?

No, it shoudl never be in the (cut) end, but always parallel to the grain.
But given that wood dries from the outside inwards, putting them in the existing surface is not going to give the proper reading. You have to resplit it.

 

[VC Encore new owner]

Hey Everyone,
Let me start off by saying that I have been burning wood from the same stove for 25 years now. It is a VC Defiant. This is the only stove I have ever owner. I burn from Nov to March 24/7. Never had one issue with this stove - replaced the gaskets and firebricks maybe 2 or 3 times and cat only one time in all those years! Always had a huge problem with creosote build up - have to clean the chimney twice a year per burning cycle(which sucks to have to shut down the stove). I have a cape so my chimney is very tall - maybe 20-25 ft up from the thimble. One problem I have right off the start is that I am going from an 8" to 6" right at the thimble to a 7" square(inside) masonry chimney liner. The last company that cleaned my chimney said the cresote is all because of me choking the defiant down to 6". They are telling me that I need a new stove with a 6" flue pipe and are also suggesting that let them break out the masonry liner and put in a new stainless steel liner up inside the chimney. I know a stainless liner will stay warmer longer and draft better.

My questions to you:
All of the above sounds legit but is it?
Do I need to downsize to a 6" output stove?
Do you advise doing the Stainless liner?
Can I do the liner and keep my stove as is?
SInce all I ever had was this one VC Defiant, what other stove would you recommend? See details below:

I mentioned before that I have a Cape Cod Style. It is a log cabin with a great room and cathedral ceilings and a loft. Probably 25 ft high from floor to peak. I have 3 ceiling fans to help circulate the air around. Square footage of entire 1st floor is 1200. 1964 total with upstairs(door stays shut because it gets too hot). Not sure how to calculate sq ft for the volume of area, but think the Defiant is a little big for that area as I have only ever managed to run at 3/4 throttle from time to time. Mostly it is set to 1/2 or 3/8 throttle during the night and day when we are sleeping and at work. The big firebox is nice because I can load at 5:30 am and still have enough coals when I get home at 5:30-6pm to keep her going. That being said, a small stove means a smaller firebox so I need to be careful to be able to keep a 12 hour burn cycle. I love the top load feature so I can really pack it If I did have to give it up, I would consider a front load only. Really like having an ash pan as well - mostly because you can "blast furnace" the coals to get those new splits going. Lastly, my wife only likes the classic look of the cast iron stoves so no soapstone or steel please.

I know this is alot to ask, but any help would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Hey Everyone,
Let me start off by saying that I have been burning wood from the same stove for 25 years now. It is a VC Defiant. This is the only stove I have ever owner. I burn from Nov to March 24/7. Never had one issue with this stove - replaced the gaskets and firebricks maybe 2 or 3 times and cat only one time in all those years! Always had a huge problem with creosote build up - have to clean the chimney twice a year per burning cycle(which sucks to have to shut down the stove). I have a cape so my chimney is very tall - maybe 20-25 ft up from the thimble. One problem I have right off the start is that I am going from an 8" to 6" right at the thimble to a 7" square(inside) masonry chimney liner. The last company that cleaned my chimney said the cresote is all because of me choking the defiant down to 6". They are telling me that I need a new stove with a 6" flue pipe and are also suggesting that let them break out the masonry liner and put in a new stainless steel liner up inside the chimney. I know a stainless liner will stay warmer longer and draft better.

My questions to you:
All of the above sounds legit but is it?
Do I need to downsize to a 6" output stove?
Do you advise doing the Stainless liner?
Can I do the liner and keep my stove as is?
SInce all I ever had was this one VC Defiant, what other stove would you recommend? See details below:

I mentioned before that I have a Cape Cod Style. It is a log cabin with a great room and cathedral ceilings and a loft. Probably 25 ft high from floor to peak. I have 3 ceiling fans to help circulate the air around. Square footage of entire 1st floor is 1200. 1964 total with upstairs(door stays shut because it gets too hot). Not sure how to calculate sq ft for the volume of area, but think the Defiant is a little big for that area as I have only ever managed to run at 3/4 throttle from time to time. Mostly it is set to 1/2 or 3/8 throttle during the night and day when we are sleeping and at work. The big firebox is nice because I can load at 5:30 am and still have enough coals when I get home at 5:30-6pm to keep her going. That being said, a small stove means a smaller firebox so I need to be careful to be able to keep a 12 hour burn cycle. I love the top load feature so I can really pack it If I did have to give it up, I would consider a front load only. Really like having an ash pan as well - mostly because you can "blast furnace" the coals to get those new splits going. Lastly, my wife only likes the classic look of the cast iron stoves so no soapstone or steel please.

I know this is alot to ask, but any help would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!

I’ll never buy another VC. Have the Encore. Poor design. Don’t use the cat. Run it super hot and can’t get fire to stay hot when shutting the damper down.

 

[pittpens24]

I’ll never buy another VC. Have the Encore. Poor design. Don’t use the cat. Run it super hot and can’t get fire to stay hot when shutting the damper down.

Wow - sorry to hear that! If I had to get a new stove, That was one of the ones I was considering. Might just shy away and make my decision between Jotul and BK if need be

 

[Megunticook]

I have a moisture meter at work, I'll bring it home just to see where I'm at

I am guessing that may be the issue. I too have a tall masonry chimney with a square 8" tile liner, I get very little creosote (after burning 2-3 cords my sweep yields maybe a gallon pail worth).

 

[stoveliker]

A gallon (to me) would be a huge amount of creosote...
I have a 27 ft flue, though lined, and I get I think 2.5 cups for the same amount of burning.

What matters (too) is its color. The grayer (duller, not back and shiny) the stuff you get out, the better.

 

[pittpens24]

2.5 cups????? I get about 3-4 gallons in a 5 gal bucket and it is black and shiny

 

[stoveliker]

That is for sure highly problematic.

 

[pittpens24]

Think the problem could be running too big of a stove not hot enough?

 

[weee123]

That's wild. I imagine your chimney is constantly smoking too. 1 year seasoned oak is definitely too wet to burn and a large contributor to that.

Edit: yes that will also do it as well. I was also under the impression that cat's only last 4-5 years. One replacement in 25 years means you have likely been burning with a non functioning cat for a while.

 

[pittpens24]

That's wild. I imagine your chimney is constantly smoking too. 1 year seasoned oak is definitely too wet to burn and a large contributor to that.

Edit: yes that will also do it as well. I was also under the impression that cat's only last 4-5 years. One replacement in 25 years means you have likely been burning with a non functioning cat for a while.

I was told that if it isnt distorted or clogged it is still good. But what do I know other than what I was told by the professionals. That is why I made my way here - to get real life answers

 

[bholler]

I have a Delmhorst moisture meter with 2" prongs - still will not read accurate if pounded into the end?

Nope

 

[bholler]

I was told that if it isnt distorted or clogged it is still good. But what do I know other than what I was told by the professionals. That is why I made my way here - to get real life answers

That's is totally incorrect burning full time a cat will typically last about 3 years

 

[pittpens24]

That's is totally incorrect burning full time a cat will typically last about 3 years

Thank you for that info

 

[all night moe]

If you do decide on a new stove, BK Ashford with a 30.2 firebox. The wife will like the Ashford. Large firebox can still burn smaller loads.
6'' liner. Up to 24-30hr burn times with good well seasoned wood. Costly stove but do the insulated liner too.