Newbie: How best to let fire go out?

[dfelicia]

New Quadra-Fire Grand Voyageur owner, here. It was installed, yesterday. Even though daytime temps are near 60 degrees here in CT, I had to try the new insert as soon as the installers left.

I used a stick of "fat wood" between two logs, which I then covered with lots of good kindling, to get things going. Then I piled two more logs on top and things were burning well in no time. After an hour, I tried turning the airflow all the way down, but that resulted in a smoldering fire that required me opening the door for a minute to get my flames back. I guess I need a more established fire before messing with "slow burn" settings...

Anyway, here's my question: since I just wanted to burn one load (the installer actually told me to do that 3x to break things in), what's the best way to let the fire go out? I just gave the 3/4 burned logs a final poke, closed the door, and went to bed. I imagine they turned to coals and smoldered. This morning, my glass is a bit dirty looking, but it was clear when I went to bed.

I'm thinking the smoldering coals produced smoke that dirtied my glass? Would it have been better to tend to the coals by stoking them every now and then, or maybe cracking the door open so they burned-up quick?

Any other tips or tricks for my particular insert appreciated. I can already see that the (broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/Why-Quadra-Fire/Key-Technologies/Automatic-Combustion-Control.aspx) feature is going to take some experimentation, as is the airflow/burn rate control.

Thanks!

--
Don

 

[David.Ervin]

Well, you don't have to turn the air all the way down at once. My Northstar also has the ACC feature, but I never use it. I typically cut it back in stages manually. Get a good fire going, then pull it back about 1/3, wait for it to get roaring again, another 1/3, see how it goes, then I'll shut it nearly off before I let it go. Doesn't take long with really dry wood. Learning what "a good fire" looks like in your own stove is kind of an art, and takes some experimentation and observation. This will be my fourth winter with the stove, and I can make a good clean fire with lots of heat without too much thought at this point, but the first winter was much more interesting.

As far as letting it go out, just get a good burn established like above on a low-ish air setting, and call it a night. Once wood is down to coals, it's nearly pure carbon that's burning, and it's very clean. The soot on your glass almost certainly is coming from the earlier part of the burn cycle when there's more volatile compounds coming off the wood that need more air to burn clean.

 

[Pakish]

The best way to let a fire go out is by adding more wood. It sounds contradictory but my friend Mikhail Kimble is a combustion engineer and he told me how it works.

You don't want the fire to go out slowly because the temperature will dip into the creosote range and permanently coat your stove in a layer of creosote that you can't remove except by sandblasting or washing thoroughly with dawn soap.

What you want to do is extinguish the fire while it is still above 300 degrees. Some people say to just throw water on it, but then you are just getting moisture in there that can cause rust and galvanic corrosion. But by adding a bunch of wood to the fire, you can smother it by using the indigenous fuel meant for the inside of the fire box. This way you won't taint the inside of your new Voyager with forgein chemicals.

 

[dfelicia]

The best way to let a fire go out is by adding more wood. It sounds contradictory but my friend Mikhail Kimble is a combustion engineer and he told me how it works.

I've heard of this, before. My father-in-law once got his stove red-hot while burning coal, and he called the fire department for advice. They had him smother it with more coal!

So, how much wood are we talking, here? Like as much as will fit? And then, what, turn airflow to its lowest?

 

[sportbikerider78]

I could thrown 20 splits in my englander and its not going to put anything out if I let it have air.

If i cut the air, then it would get really dirty really quick...and smolder forever..unless there was a good coal base.

Breaking it in would be 3 complete cycles. Get 3 fires and let them slowly go out. I must be missing something.

 

[Pakish]

Breaking is stove is just like breaking in a new rifle. Some people say to load a case full of powder and burn the burrs out while some people say to run some 80 grit sandpaper down the barrel. I think both will work it just depends on your style. I like the Kimble method because you're using wood. It's like the wood burning equivalent of an all natural diet and I'm a vegan so I like it.

If you do the Kimble method then you really have to fill that box full so air can't circulate. Idk about air flow the knobs fell off of my stove so I just stack wood in from of where they were so air can't get in.

 

[kennyp2339]

What you want to do is extinguish the fire while it is still above 300 degrees. Some people say to just throw water on it, but then you are just getting moisture in there that can cause rust and galvanic corrosion. But by adding a bunch of wood to the fire, you can smother it by using the indigenous fuel meant for the inside of the fire box. This way you won't taint the inside of your new Voyager with forgein chemicals.

Don't mean to be rude but are you really serious?

 

[kennyp2339]

Don - please do your break in fires small, use dry wood (less than 20% moisture) buy a moisture meter if you don't have one. I don't say use season wood really anymore because people think seasoned wood is wood that has been sitting around from 6 months to 10 years, just use dry wood. Make your splits small, ideally between 2 -4 inches, load the box 1/4 of the way, lite under new paper and a fire starter, burn with the air wide open, let the stove come up to temp.
First fire under 400 deg, second fire under 500 deg, third fire 650 deg, and no need to let it go out. Don't be nervous of any paint or chemical smells, that just your stove paint and stove pipe coating curing.
Add splits as needed to get the stove up to those temps, once you reach the temp, simply walk away, the fire will go out.
Dirty glass can be clean on a cold stove by using Windex or water / vinegar / fine ash on a paper towel, or simply burn the stove hotter and the air wash will clean your glass.
Key take away - burn dry wood, make sure your supply is dry, cant stress it enough dry wood..lol Once the stove is "season" burn normal size splits, 5"-6" splits are nice, once the stove hits temp start backing the air down in 1/4 increments until you find your happy spot (steady lazy flames, gas like flames coming out of the secondary tubes)

 

[jetsam]

You don't want the fire to go out slowly because the temperature will dip into the creosote range and permanently coat your stove in a layer of creosote that you can't remove except by sandblasting or washing thoroughly with dawn soap.

Or by heating it up until it burns off. This is usually not much of an issue inside of a woodstove.

 

[bholler]

The best way to let a fire go out is by adding more wood. It sounds contradictory but my friend Mikhail Kimble is a combustion engineer and he told me how it works.

You don't want the fire to go out slowly because the temperature will dip into the creosote range and permanently coat your stove in a layer of creosote that you can't remove except by sandblasting or washing thoroughly with dawn soap.

What you want to do is extinguish the fire while it is still above 300 degrees. Some people say to just throw water on it, but then you are just getting moisture in there that can cause rust and galvanic corrosion. But by adding a bunch of wood to the fire, you can smother it by using the indigenous fuel meant for the inside of the fire box. This way you won't taint the inside of your new Voyager with forgein chemicals.

I am sorry but this is totally wrong. The way to put a fire out in a wood stove is to just let it go out. Once it gets to the coaling stage there is no creosote being produced. And putting more wood on it will just make the fire bigger in a modern stove there is no way to shut the air off completely so it will just sit there and smoulder making tons of creosote. And dumping water on it would be extremely dangerous and could be disastrous for the stove and chimney. I am sorry to be rude but there is nothing at all correct about your post. Please no one take this advice.

 

[begreen]

The best way to do your break-in fires is by limiting the size and number of the splits. That way you can burn short hot fires. Increase the amount of wood a little bit with each successive burn. First fire use about five 2" sticks. Stack the wood criss-cross, lincoln log style with a few newspaper balls in the middle. Second fire do the same thing but put a 3" split on top. Let it burn down completely and then let the stove cool. The third fire in your stove can be a full hot fire so put a few 4-5" splits on and let it burn normally, closing down the air when the fire gets robust so that the flame starts to get lazy.

 

[dfelicia]

Thanks, all. My second fire is burning, now. I'm afraid I made it bigger than you all are recommending, but I just read all the replies. Oh, we'll. Owner's manual has no mention of break-in, so I'm sure things will be fine. I can already see the air wash cleaned all but the very bottom of the glass, so I think that's good. My wood is nice and dry... I'm gonna just let it burn out on its own. Looks like bigger/hotter fires will take care of glass concern. It probably happened because my first fire was small and short lived.

 

[jetsam]

You get lots of interesting advice when people hear you got a stove.

I lost track of the number of people who put on Serious Face and warned me not to burn pine, or my house would burn down. It reminded me of people in Korea telling me not to run a fan in the bedroom in summer because it's often fatal. (Me: "Citation needed." Them: "Well uh I heard about this ONE guy...")

Understand that creosote forms when the oils in the wood go airborne and then condense on a cool surface (This happens at 200-225°F, which is why you always see people saying you should keep your flue temp above 250°F). A cat or tube stove burns said airborne goo if it's hot enough ('hot enough' being anywhere within its normal range of operation, usually- just have to keep the cat/secondaries lit).

A normal burn cycle in a modern stove doesn't leave much creosote because while the wood is emitting the oils that condense into creosote, the stove using most of the oils for fuel in its cat or secondaries; by the time the temperature dies down to creosote danger range, the wood is done off gassing and not much creosote is being formed no matter how low the temperature goes.

Any scenario where you have fresh fuel and metal surfaces below 250°F (normally in the flue) is one where you are getting creosote buildup.

I myself have these conditions regularly in warm weather (I burn my stove VERY low when it's 50-60 outside). Anything that builds up inside the stove is more fuel for my next hot fire; anything that builds up in the flue gets brushed out. I sweep the chimney frequently in warm weather; it doesn't need it in cold weather. If I didn't want to sweep, I could also open a window and burn the stove hotter to prevent the buildup (you can't clean out existing flue creosote with a hot fire). (Well, my grandmother did do just that, but it involved the fire department every time, so I'm going to recommend a simple chimney sweeping instead.)

 

[xman23]

The wood load and air will limit the heat. Control the temp with both when your doing the burn in. When its coaling opening the air won't raise the temp, as there is not much fuel. Monitor the temp so it doesn't smolder.

 

[Sprinter]

You get lots of interesting advice when people hear you got a stove.

I lost track of the number of people who put on Serious Face and warned me not to burn pine, or my house would burn down.

1. Ain't that the truth!

2. Actually, your house probably won't burn down by burning pine, but I did hear of ONE couple that couldn't have children after burning pine...

 

[BIGChrisNH]

I agree with the most recent comments here. Just letting the fire go out is fine. I thought the earlier comments above about throwing water in, washing the inside of the stove, etc., must be a joke.

Having smaller fires to break things in is good advice though, and I think you'll find most of the buildup will burn off your glass once you have a hot fire again.

 

[dfelicia]

Wow, a damp cloth dipped in ash is unbelievably effective. Break-in fire #2 went out about 12 hours ago. I just wiped the glass with ash and it's like new. I didn't even need to scrub - it just wiped right off. I never would have guessed ash and water would do that. Cool!

 

[jetsam]

Wow, a damp cloth dipped in ash is unbelievably effective. Break-in fire #2 went out about 12 hours ago. I just wiped the glass with ash and it's like new. I didn't even need to scrub - it just wiped right off. I never would have guessed ash and water would do that. Cool!

That does work pretty well, but so does a hot fire, and the hot fire's going to happen anyway when it gets cold.

(If we were talking about the best ways to wash your car, you'd find that I have a similar outlook in that matter. . )

 

[dfelicia]

OK, last question for now, I think. Is this too much wood for my first "big" fire? Or could I even add more? Thinking I can/should definitely make my splits a lot smaller so I can pack more efficiently.

 

[jatoxico]

Regarding the question about how to let a fire burn out, if I'm around and the coals are burning down I like to open the air a bit to burn the coals down cleanly and send a little more heat up the flue.

The load you have pictured should be fine just make sure you can control the fire with the air control. Bring the air down in stages. I didn't see mention of a thermometer, you should get one.

 

[dfelicia]

I didn't see mention of a thermometer, you should get one.

I have a lot to learn... will search the forum for info on that. I had no idea. I better search for what to do in the event of an over-fire, too.

Fire with this load is burning well so far. I have the ACC doing its timer thing, and the top control is all the way down.

 

[jatoxico]

Can be a little tough with an insert. I have a stove top thermometer on the stove top in the vent. I can se where the needle is but can't read the numbers so go by memory. Also have a cheapo laser thermometer. Always good to know what temps you're running at.

 

[dfelicia]

Also have a cheapo laser thermometer.

Oh, I have one of those! It's actually a decent one. Duh. OK, so the "surround" for my insert is not installed, yet (backordered) so I can "shoot" the laser on the top. It's currently reading 470F. The glass front is reading 780F. The cast around surrounding the glass is like 400F. I think these temps are OK? I just read in another thread that 900F is when panic sets in (and that I should open the door wide open to remedy and keep sand on hand just in case).

I guess my question is where to shoot the laser on an insert once my surround in installed. Glass (ceramic) or cast iron surrounding the glass?

 

[jatoxico]

I monitor the stove top, center and back a few inches. I shoot the flue collar with the laser too. These should be the hottest areas.The door won't give a good sense of the temp and the glass is of no use at all.

Your temps sound OK to me. I normally run up to about 550-600 and cruise 450-550. Occasionally touch 700 or a bit more. The rule is no glowing, not even that dull red.

 

[David.Ervin]

lookin' good @dfelicia. Those temps sound like a nice place to let it "cruise" along. Like @jatoxico said, don't get it glowing and you're good. Enjoy your new heater!