No Blaze King for me

[backinthelab]

Well, according to the local store, our Dutchwest is too old and they won't install a chimney liner. Said they've had issues with them in the past and they won't do it. So, I started looking at replacing the stove, as well, since I'm tired of fussing with it anyways.

I had really hoped to go with a Blaze King Ashford, however, our thimble location is lower than the 2' that they require from the stove top. What's our next-best option for our 1800 sf ranch? (6" single-wall that dumps into a masonry chimney.) Would prefer a cat stove that looks nice and doesn't require babysitting.

Currently researching the Hearthstone Manchester and Lopi Rockport but open to any suggestions at this point. Local shop quoted me an Enviro Kodiak 1700 because they're on clearance, but I'm not impressed with the aesthetics.

 

[webby3650]

How much vertical height will you have above the stove? How tall is the chimney?

 

[backinthelab]

How much vertical height will you have above the stove? How tall is the chimney?

My best guess is it's 12-14' to the top of the chimney from where the thimble enters. I can measure it when I get home if I can get through all of the snow. Lol

 

[webby3650]

My best guess is it's 12-14' to the top of the chimney from where the thimble enters. I can measure it when I get home if I can get through all of the snow. Lol

That’s pretty short. I have to agree, if you can’t get at least 2’ over vertical rise before the elbow, I wouldn’t go with a BK, as much as I hate to admit that.

 

[webby3650]

If your chimney was 18’-20’ feet I’d feel ok about it.
Is there any chance a new thimble could be punched through higher on the wall, then use that removed stone to patch the existing hole?

 

[Woody Stover]

What model is the Dutchwest? What kind of styling is desired in the new stove, or isn't that too big a deal?

 

[backinthelab]

If your chimney was 18’-20’ feet I’d feel ok about it.
Is there any chance a new thimble could be punched through higher on the wall, then use that removed stone to patch the existing hole?

The brick only goes halfway up the wall and forms a mantle, so I'd essentially have to rebrick the entire area as I don't think they could close off the existing thimble and make it look right. Not to mention the cost is a little more than I can bear, particularly when the Blaze King unit alone (not including install) will run me $4k.

That's why I'm looking for other options. I can't justify $6-7k.

 

[backinthelab]

What model is the Dutchwest? What kind of styling is desired in the new stove, or isn't that too big a deal?

It's an FA224. Just looking for something that's not a flat rectangular box. I love the look of the Dutchwest, and since this is something we're staring at every day I'd like something pleasing to the eye. That's why the Manchester and Rockport came to mind.

 

[Woody Stover]

How big an area do you want to heat, and what is the room layout? Why are you leaning toward a cat? Manchester is non-cat correct?

 

[Woody Stover]

What brands are available locally? One dealer has Hearthstone, Lopi and Enviro?

 

[backinthelab]

The Dutchwest is a cat and it cranks out the heat for quite awhile, that's why I was leaning towards it. I don't want to have to continually reload. It's not going to make-or-break my decision, just a preference. The Manchester is not a cat but I'm considering it.

House is 1800sf, stove is located in the family room which is in the center of the house. It does have a vaulted ceiling.

The one dealer that I had quote me the Blaze King also carries Hearthstone and Enviro. There's another dealer in the area that I'm waiting on a call back from who carries Lopi and Hearthstone

 

[backinthelab]

One dealer has Lopi, Hearthstone, White Mountain, Vermont Castings
One has Blaze King, Breckwell, Dutchwest, Enviro, Hearthstone, Napoleon
Another has Regency, Supreme, Hampton, Jotul

So, I have lots of options, too many almost. That's why I thought I'd ask in here and get some real-world opinions.

 

[Woody Stover]

You'll want to upsize a bit to counter the vaulted ceiling. They didn't do that when advising my SIL years ago, and the Dutchwest 2460 was never going to handle her space. I went with a PE T5 for her, no cat, simple design, welded steel box (no seam leaks) that should require the absolute minimum maintenance of any stove type out there. The PEs are also easy breathers on a short stack like you have.
The Woodstock straight cats also breathe easy, their new hybrids maybe not quite as easy, but still decent? But styling is limited to either soapstone or welded steel box. The quality is definitely there on their straight-cats that I've run. There's no dealer network, direct order only, so you have to be OK with doing some maintenance yourself, and a lot of dealers will only install what they sell. You'd need to find a good sweep that knows what they are doing. No dealer doesn't bother me since none of the local dealers, or people that I've hired in general for other stuff, have impressed me too much. Don't really know about the local stove dealers, though..I'm just comfortable handling it myself as far as stoves. Really talk to your dealers if you are going to rely on them for the install and maintenance, and try to get a feel for if they know what they're doing, and if they will back you up if you have a problem. Ask about the manufacturer support among the brands they carry.
Some of the cast iron Jotuls like the F500 want a stronger draft, so I would cross it off the list. Some of the welded-steel Jotuls might need less draft, I don't know, but might have the boxy look you want to avoid. I think Hampton is a version of Regency, which has a history of quality. The jury is still out on a lot of the design changes the manufacturers made to meet 2020 EPA requirements. I don't recall what webby3650 said about how well the cat was protected in the Rockport hybrid design. I think he said the Manchester is decent, and it sure is a looker!
I think the Enviro Kodiak is the plain-Jane version..don't the Boston and Venice have a more-refined look? I know..the deal is on the Kodiak. Maybe it isn't the new 2020 version, and has more of a track record on the old design? I don't know..
Wow, the info never ends, does it? I don't envy anyone having to make a decision right now..

 

[backinthelab]

You'll want to upsize a bit to counter the vaulted ceiling. They didn't do that when advising my SIL years ago, and the Dutchwest 2460 was never going to handle her space. I went with a PE T5 for her, no cat, simple design, welded steel box (no seam leaks) that should require the absolute minimum maintenance of any stove type out there. The PEs are also easy breathers on a short stack like you have.
The Woodstock straight cats also breathe easy, their new hybrids maybe not quite as easy, but still decent? But styling is limited to either soapstone or welded steel box. The quality is definitely there on their straight-cats that I've run. There's no dealer network, direct order only, so you have to be OK with doing some maintenance yourself, and a lot of dealers will only install what they sell. You'd need to find a good sweep that knows what they are doing. No dealer doesn't bother me since none of the local dealers, or people that I've hired in general for other stuff, have impressed me too much. Don't really know about the local stove dealers, though..I'm just comfortable handling it myself as far as stoves. Really talk to your dealers if you are going to rely on them for the install and maintenance, and try to get a feel for if they know what they're doing, and if they will back you up if you have a problem. Ask about the manufacturer support among the brands they carry.
Some of the cast iron Jotuls like the F500 want a stronger draft, so I would cross it off the list. Some of the welded-steel Jotuls might need less draft, I don't know, but might have the boxy look you want to avoid. I think Hampton is a version of Regency, which has a history of quality. The jury is still out on a lot of the design changes the manufacturers made to meet 2020 EPA requirements. I don't recall what webby3650 said about how well the cat was protected in the Rockport hybrid design. I think he said the Manchester is decent, and it sure is a looker!
I think the Enviro Kodiak is the plain-Jane version..don't the Boston and Venice have a more-refined look? I know..the deal is on the Kodiak. Maybe it isn't the new 2020 version, and has more of a track record on the old design? I don't know..
Wow, the info never ends, does it? I don't envy anyone having to make a decision right now..

You have me eyeing the Woodstock now. The Progress looks like a great unit! You're right, decisions, decisions......

On another note, do you think a flue extension would help? They sell the caps that extend by 2'. I figure some extra height can't hurt.

 

[Woody Stover]

You have me eyeing the Woodstock now. The Progress looks like a great unit! You're right, decisions, decisions......
On another note, do you think a flue extension would help? They sell the caps that extend by 2'. I figure some extra height can't hurt.

Yes, extra height is a good thing on a shorter stack, if you are OK with more stack sticking out up there.
I don't quite understand; Were you running the Dutchwest in your current house, or was that somewhere else? Present setup just has the thimble into the chimney, no liner? How big is the clay liner in the chimney?
Now, with a Woodstock PH or one of their steel stoves, a Jotul steel, as well as others, you may be able to rear-vent into the fireplace like I do, and eliminate one of the 90* turns, and that should improve draft. And there's no ugly black pipe visible.
Stove rear-vents into a tee, then liner goes up, so I can take the bottom cap off the tee, attach a plastic bag, and brush down into it from the roof.
My Keystone pulls like crazy on that setup, I think the PH drafts fairly easy but maybe not like this..I can get a draft going when it's pretty warm out if I want. Also, the side-loading stoves seem to prevent smoke roll-out better than if you have to open a giant front door, in marginal draft conditions like warmer outdoor temps..

 

[backinthelab]

Yes, extra height is a good thing on a shorter stack, if you are OK with more stack sticking out up there.
I don't quite understand; Were you running the Dutchwest in your current house, or was that somewhere else? Present setup just has the thimble into the chimney, no liner? How big is the clay liner in the chimney?
Now, with a Woodstock PH or one of their steel stoves, a Jotul steel, as well as others, you may be able to rear-vent into the fireplace like I do, and eliminate one of the 90* turns, and that should improve draft. And there's no ugly black pipe visible.
Stove rear-vents into a tee, then liner goes up, so I can take the bottom cap off the tee, attach a plastic bag, and brush down into it from the roof.
My Keystone pulls like crazy on that setup, I think the PH drafts fairly easy but maybe not like this..I can get a draft going when it's pretty warm out if I want. Also, the side-loading stoves seem to prevent smoke roll-out better than if you have to open a giant front door, in marginal draft conditions like warmer outdoor temps..

I'm still running the Dutchwest, mostly only when the kids aren't there though on account of the smell. The chimney is I guess what you'd call a standard size if there is one, maybe 1.5' x 2.5' in outside dimensions with an 8" clay cap. There is no liner insofar as pipe is concerned. I've ordered the extension cap and we'll see if that extra 2' in height makes a difference.

 

[backinthelab]

Well, the Mansfield is out of stock until they figure out the 2020 emissions thing. Can't get the other two local dealers to return my calls. Looks like Woodstock it is.

 

[chipsoflyin]

PH is a good choice. Our chimney setup is not optimal and PH has no problems running in full cat mode or with secondary's blazin.

 

[backinthelab]

Thanks everyone for all of your help and suggestions. I really appreciate it. I'm having a contractor come out this weekend to quote me a liner. Going to fix the draft issues first, then look at replacing the stove. I know if it pulls well with our Dutchwest then a more modern stove definitely won't have problems.

 

[Woody Stover]

I'm having a contractor come out this weekend to quote me a liner. Going to fix the draft issues first, then look at replacing the stove. I know if it pulls well with our Dutchwest then a more modern stove definitely won't have problems.

Yes, if the "smoke" issue is due to poor draft and smoke roll-out when the stove door is opened, a liner will help..especially if this is an exterior masonry chimney. That said, even "modern" stoves will vary in their draft requirements..some makes and models like a stronger draft, others breathe very easily.