Non-cat burning with VC Defiant Flex-burn

[Blackjack Dan]

Looking to upgrade my 30 year old woodstove to more efficient unit. I need a rear exhaust, I have a 8 inch flu, have a drafty 3200 SF home the defiant flex-burn seems to fit the specs well. And yes I have read some of the negative comments on VC products.

My question is with this particular stove (Defiant Flex-burn) how do you burn in non-cat mode versus cat mode?

I have read the owners manual twice and I know I'm missing something? It appears there's only two levers on the stove, air control/thermostat and one I would call the internal damper which would engage the cat. Again I am assuming but if you are burning with the damper open how could you get any long burns and decent air control and desired temperature, if this is what they're calling non-cat Mode?

Any comments on pricing for this unit? On the basic stove one dealer quoted a cashing carry price of $2999?

 

[fire245]

Looking to upgrade my 30 year old woodstove to more efficient unit. I need a rear exhaust, I have a 8 inch flu, have a drafty 3200 SF home the defiant flex-burn seems to fit the specs well. And yes I have read some of the negative comments on VC products. Look at the regency 5100. Great unit fits your SF and 30 hr burn at 80 lbs of wood.

My question is with this particular stove (Defiant Flex-burn) how do you burn in non-cat mode versus cat mode?

I have read the owners manual twice and I know I'm missing something? It appears there's only two levers on the stove, air control/thermostat and one I would call the internal damper which would engage the cat. Again I am assuming but if you are burning with the damper open how could you get any long burns and decent air control and desired temperature, if this is what they're calling non-cat Mode?

Any comments on pricing for this unit? On the basic stove one dealer quoted a cashing carry price of $2999?

http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/F5100.aspx look at the 5100 fits your SQ I use one to heat my warehouse. 24hr burn time at 80 lbs of wood

 

[charger4406]

To burn the defiant in non cat mode you simply remove the cat.
The damper is opened only to get the stove up to operating temp and for reloading.
When burning without the cat there is no need to keep the damper open.

 

[charger4406]

As for the price it seems reasonable.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/F5100.aspx look at the 5100 fits your SQ I use one to heat my warehouse. 24hr burn time at 80 lbs of wood

Looks like a great unit however I need rear exhaust and a fairly low profile stove, the top of my 8 inch flue is 32 inches.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

To burn the defiant in non cat mode you simply remove the cat.
The damper is opened only to get the stove up to operating temp and for reloading.
When burning without the cat there is no need to keep the damper open.

Hi Charger4406, how do you like your F 600? I understand the flu is reversible vertical or horizontal? Did you have your Defiant 2n1 in the same application as you're F600 and how do they compare?

 

[charger4406]

You can set it up for rear exhaust,just 4 bolts if a recall, but I think the height
might be an issue, I believe they have shorter legs as an option but I could be mistaken.

 

[charger4406]

I love the Jotul, simple large firebox that is very easy to control
and gets long burn times, puts out a ton of heat.

 

[charger4406]

Two bolts to change flue over, my brother has my Defiant now, I would say the Defiant
throws more heat but very close, the F600 is easier to operate and more forgiving to
firewood with higher moisture, also the F600 is less sensitive to low draft situations
where as the defiant tends to back puff smoke into the room at times.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

Although the Jotul F600 has a 6 inch flue, they say you can burn it with the doors open, just from reading the specifications I think I can get by with my 8 inch flue. My flu is triple wall an has about 14 foot heated and about 16 foot Nonheated.

(broken image removed)

Any recommendations on the Jotul F600 for this application?

 

[weatherguy]

You might be able to get a Kuma Sequoia to work in your set up.

 

[claydogg84]

You can set it up for rear exhaust,just 4 bolts if a recall, but I think the height
might be an issue, I believe they have shorter legs as an option but I could be mistaken.

Jotul doesn't make short legs for the F600, but they do for the Oslo. The height is the reason I ended up getting the Oslo instead of the 600.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

Weatherguy I like half of your dog! Here's my set up I don't want to have to reconfigure my flu and hearth. I really appreciate all the suggestions.

(broken image removed)(broken image removed)

Can someone tell me why this thread is not showing up under new post?

 

[Blackjack Dan]

Jotul doesn't make short legs for the F600, but they do for the Oslo. The height is the reason I ended up getting the Oslo instead of the 600.

According to the owners manual the F600 set up with rear exhaust should have a top OD exhaust flue of 30 1/2 inches?
(broken image removed)

 

[charger4406]

The height of the flue for rear exhaust would workout to same center line height
as you have there, my F600 is on an 8 inch flue.
The top would be 30 1/2.
I have the screen for open door operation.

 

[claydogg84]

It looks like it should be pretty close if you get the F600. If the top of your current flue measures 32" it would be 31" with a 8" to 6" adapter. You may have to shim the feet, but it will be close enough to make something work I think.

 

[Toploader]

I agree with claydogg, the height of the F600 should work for you, the Defiant vents a couple inches lower. The Defiant can be a very finicky, someone I know had one and he got rid of it after one season, out of control burns in cold weather, back puffing in warmer weather and just too much babysitting in general. The F600 will be simple and reliable and a real good low maintenance stove.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

Is this a misprint:

back-puffing

"Back-puffing results when the fire produces volatile gases faster than the chimney draft pulls them out of the firebox. The gases back up in the firebox until they are concentrated enough and hot enough to ignite. If your stove back-puffs, the stove needs to cool down. You should open the damper to let the smoke rise to the flue more quickly, allow more air into the firebox, avoid big loads of firewood and check that the wood moisture is not too low."

Low moisture content in wood creates back puffing?

 

[begreen]

The definition is not the best. It is usually the lack of fire or flame that causes backpuffing. High moisture content wood often smolders if the flame goes out when the air is insufficient. When this happens the firebox starts filling up with smoke, aka unburnt wood gas. When a flame finally does appear it ignites the unburnt wood gases with a small explosion. This is a backpuff.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

High moisture content wood often smolders if the flame goes out when the air is insufficient.

Yes what you're stating makes sense, the above quote is from the Vermont castings Defiant owners manual it states "MAKE SURE THE WOOD MOISTURE IS NOT TOO LOW" How does low wood moisture create back puffing?

 

[begreen]

Hard to say. Sounds like they are talking about two different problems. Maybe they had a customer that overloaded the stove with 2x4s?

 

[branchburner]

How does low wood moisture create back puffing?

My experience is that it is low MC in combination with small size, like a load full of small branch wood or pallet cuts, can cause excessive outgassing if the air supply is shut back too far / too quick. It is the excessive surface area of all that small stuff that is the real issue.

VC is doing a disservice by not fully explaining this, because it is the choking off of primary air or poor draft that is typically the primary problem here, and NOT that the wood is "TOO DRY." By suggesting low MC is a problem they may be leading folks to think less-seasoned wood is better than more-seasoned wood. NOOOO!!

I think "too dry" never really happens, but "too small" easily does. And if VC ever designed a stove that wouldn't burn fully seasoned wood without backpuffing issues, it's because of crappy design, not because of dry wood.

 

[Blackjack Dan]

Jotul.com says (F600) a popular option is the leg bracket kit the owner manual only discuss a floor bracket kit is that the same thing?

Looks like I'm going to pull the trigger this week on either a F600 or a Oslo what's the opinions out there as to the longest Burns? Easiest to operate & maintenance issues? In general overall performance?

Leaning toward the F 600 right now I do want good overnight burns but I also live in an area that doesn't have extremely cold temperatures. So my thinking is the amount of splits directly relates to burn times, so is one of these stoves loaded at 50% going to Outperform the other one based on its air control or general design?

 

[Ashful]

According to the owners manual the F600 set up with rear exhaust should have a top OD exhaust flue of 30 1/2 inches?

The way I read that drawing, it's 27-1/2" for rear exit, which pretty much seems to match his existing stove.

 

[Ashful]

Looks like I'm going to pull the trigger this week on either a F600 or a Oslo what's the opinions out there as to the longest Burns?

F600 has longer burn time than Oslo.

Easiest to operate & maintenance issues? In general overall performance?

Will have to defer to actual owners of these models, although there are very few here who have owned both, for an unbiased comparison. Both stoves have excellent reputations for quality and performance. Jotul is one of the absolute best quality manufacturers in business today.