Non Pressurized Storage...

[GENECOP]

Finally adding some storage.....after reading and researching, and considering the space I have to work with, and cost considerations, I have decided to build my own. 3x4x 5' tall.....400 or so gallons, wood framed, reinforced with steel corners and edges..Concrete interior, skinned with a cementious waterproof liner..Still deciding on the heat exchangers.....Coil exchangers all good to go run around $600, not sure if I can save some money making my own.....Was considering adding copper fins to 1" copper pipe, just not sure if all that labor will make a significant difference, will post photos, any thoughts on the heat exchangers will be welcomed...thanks.

 

[GENECOP]

Ok, made a little progress, got the box built, the grooves will accept Steel C channel running horizontally. The corners will then have 3x3 steel corners overlapping the C...inside will be covered in Hardi board, then 1-1/2" concrete panels, I am planning to embed pex in the concrete with a feed and return out the top for a possible future heat exchanger..The main heat exchangers will be two copper systems, top and bottom, here are a few photos...

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

The heat exchanger on the bottom will have 4 levels, 1" manifolds with 1/2" in the field, I also will attach some flat sheet stock, hopefully these (fins) will add the the heat exchange...The tank will be about 400 gallons, the exchangers will sit about 3" off the bottom and the dimensions place it about 3" off the side concrete walls. I could have purchased the Heat exchangers, but what fun would that have been...There will be many levels of insulation around the tank, it will be built in my shop, and reassembled in my basement...

 

[GENECOP]

Today in Long Island close to 50 Deg, mini fire only, Oil Burner in service, just for today....

 

[GENECOP]

 

[GENECOP]

 

[perchin]

Nice... Is the copper for inside the tank? I'm a newb. I'm guessing though that the water from the boiler runs through the copper, heating the water in the tank???

 

[GENECOP]

Yes, my tank will have two sets of coils, one set installed low in the tank to transfer heat to the water, the top coil will draw the heat off for heating needs...

 

[Pat53]

Wow, that's a lot of sweat soldering ! Make sure you pressure test it first for leaks. I see you have a Greenwood. I have a Seton and since adding 500 gallons storage it runs MUCH cleaner. Good luck, hope it works out well.

Pat

 

[GENECOP]

Wow, that's a lot of sweat soldering ! Make sure you pressure test it first for leaks. I see you have a Greenwood. I have a Seton and since adding 500 gallons storage it runs MUCH cleaner. Good luck, hope it works out well.

Pat

Yea Pat, I am looking forward to adding storage, I had some, but this additional will get me longer times between loads, I hope...it took me one season to figure out the best way to run the Greenwood, I have had it about 3 years now and my HX is still nice and clean, I run it flat out with very little idle time....some, but not much. I started reading about true indoor gasifiers after I purchased the Greenwood, and after much research I think I am happy I went with the Greenwood...The biggest advantage to me is the abilty to burn LARGE rounds, and even higher moisture content wood...it takes a lot less time to process wood and wood selection is greater when you are not so picky...When the ceramic heats up, no smoke, no creo, and it will burn just about anything...I am sure you know all this, thanks.

 

[Pat53]

Yea Pat, I am looking forward to adding storage, I had some, but this additional will get me longer times between loads, I hope...it took me one season to figure out the best way to run the Greenwood, I have had it about 3 years now and my HX is still nice and clean, I run it flat out with very little idle time....some, but not much. I started reading about true indoor gasifiers after I purchased the Greenwood, and after much research I think I am happy I went with the Greenwood...The biggest advantage to me is the abilty to burn LARGE rounds, and even higher moisture content wood...it takes a lot less time to process wood and wood selection is greater when you are not so picky...When the ceramic heats up, no smoke, no creo, and it will burn just about anything...I am sure you know all this, thanks.

I'm surprised your HX is staying clean considering you evidently burn some larger, and wetter, rounds. I no longer burn any big rounds and all my wood is 3 years seasoned, mostly red oak. My HX was getting gunked up bad after only 1-2 months burning before adding storage, now it stays pretty clean. I'm sure I would have gotten rid of my Seton by now without the storage, it would have been too much of a hassle to take the back off and clean that HX 2-3x a season. I will have to take the top panel off mine this summer and replace it, it is rotting out in a few places. I modified my HX location 2 years ago by lowering and moving it forward about 2-3", and I might move it even lower and a bit more forward again so the tubes are even more in the exhaust/flame path.

BTW, when you said "ceramic" did you mean refractory?

Pat

 

[GENECOP]

Pat, I think I read about you moving the HX, unless someone else did it...My HX are staying clean, a few things I do that might be helping....about three times a week I throw in a couple of scoops of Rutland Creosote remover...Once every 5-6 weeks I let the fire die down and do a good chimney sweep , brush the HX, and blow compressed air with a wand in through the exhaust, over the back wall, and run the vacuum at the same time....Also I have a temp gauge , wireless, monitoring water temp in and out, when it hits around 130 out and 120 return, I add wood, there is always a good bed of coals at these temps..I have a draft inducer fan installed, if the damper is open, the fan is on...Lastly the green wood, or wet wood gets mixed in, if a piece is real wet or green, I only add it to a full blast fire....If I do ever have to start cold, I build slow, bringing the firebox up to temp...I always had about 150 gallons of storage, so I am sure it helped, this additional 400 should make a nice difference...One thing I was thinking about Pat, even though everything runs fine, I am always thinking of ways to improve...if the Seton is the same, what do you think about adding a steel panel as a cieling across the top. Maybe stop it 6-8 from the front, this would force the gas forward then back toward the exhaust..This could be done easily by gluing up a few firebricks to the ceramic, creating a ledge, then just drop a piece of heavy gauge sheet goods in place...just a thought...

 

[GENECOP]

Yes I meant refractory...

 

[Pat53]

Pat, I think I read about you moving the HX, unless someone else did it...My HX are staying clean, a few things I do that might be helping....about three times a week I throw in a couple of scoops of Rutland Creosote remover...Once every 5-6 weeks I let the fire die down and do a good chimney sweep , brush the HX, and blow compressed air with a wand in through the exhaust, over the back wall, and run the vacuum at the same time....Also I have a temp gauge , wireless, monitoring water temp in and out, when it hits around 130 out and 120 return, I add wood, there is always a good bed of coals at these temps..I have a draft inducer fan installed, if the damper is open, the fan is on...Lastly the green wood, or wet wood gets mixed in, if a piece is real wet or green, I only add it to a full blast fire....If I do ever have to start cold, I build slow, bringing the firebox up to temp...I always had about 150 gallons of storage, so I am sure it helped, this additional 400 should make a nice difference...One thing I was thinking about Pat, even though everything runs fine, I am always thinking of ways to improve...if the Seton is the same, what do you think about adding a steel panel as a cieling across the top. Maybe stop it 6-8 from the front, this would force the gas forward then back toward the exhaust..This could be done easily by gluing up a few firebricks to the ceramic, creating a ledge, then just drop a piece of heavy gauge sheet goods in place...just a thought...

I don't see any reason why that would not work as long as the baffle (panel) wasn't too restrictive in allowing the exhaust to exit. I moved my HX down and forward after watching the flame path go quickly over the top of the back refractory wall. The outer row of tubes were not even close to being in the flame/exhaust path and then were basically laying right up against the kaowool. Anything that directs the flame path more directly on the tubes should increase efficiency and also help to keep those tubes clean I would think.

I tried the Rutlands several years ago before I had storage and didn't really notice any improvement so I stopped using it.

Pat

 

[Eric Johnson]

Nice work on the hx. Looks beautiful.

 

[Pat53]

Is this what you meant with the baffle? The green part in the drawing.

 

[kopeck]

I like it, nice work.

I have 820 gallons of unpressurized storage, works well for me!

K

 

[Willman]

Did you pull the tees on the manifold or hole saw them?

 

[GENECOP]

Is this what you meant with the baffle? The green part in the drawing.View attachment 151401

Exactly......do you think it would be worth it? I have some refractory brick, if I glued a couple to the refractory creating a ledge, then I can get a sheet of 3/8" steel, lay it on the brick ledge, and there is the baffle....I think it might improve efficiency , if nothing else, I should create a nice jet stream close to the HE.....G

 

[GENECOP]

Did you pull the tees on the manifold or hole saw them?

Set up a jig on my Drill press, 1/2"-----4" centers, the 1/2" flex copper slid right in, nice and tight after flux...