Norwegian Style Efficiency

[Jordan]

What do you think of efficiency regarding early Norwegian style stoves? The ones in question are the tiered style.

I was told years ago that this style allowed for secondary burns by holding the gasses longer. Although I was also told that only happened when burned hot.

From my sources the Jotul 606 was discontinued because Americans over filled and dampened there stoves too much building too much creosote. Apparently the Norwegians build smaller hot fires.

 

[bholler]

What do you think of efficiency regarding early Norwegian style stoves? The ones in question are the teared style.

I was told years ago that this style allowed for secondary burns by holding the gasses longer. Although I was also told that only happened when burned hot.

From my sources the Jotul 606 was discontinued because Americans over filled and dampened there stoves too much building too much creosote. Apparently the Norwegians build smaller hot fires.

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They were more efficient than many others at the time. But are absolutely nowhere near modern stoves.

 

[peakbagger]

I have a 606 sitting in storage. It was used 30 plus years ago to heat a small house. It was a truly impressive heater for its time. It also could be a major creosote producer if someone loaded it up and then cranked the air back. If its dry wood and run properly I would expect it would even give a modern stove a run for its money on efficiency. With dry wood and a hot fire the combustion will be a fairly efficient and the extended heat exchanger area is going to extract a lot of heat out of a small fire.

 

[fbelec]

nice looking stoves. with my old defiant in horizontal mode there is advertised 5 feet of smoke path before the smoke hits the chimney and that takes out so much heat from the smoke that if your not careful and run it low it makes creosote so fast it's not funny. i'd hate to see that one that looks like it has 3 stoves on top of the one with the fire running even at a medium burn

 

[Jordan]

Its intriguing to see others views on the topic. In Scandinavia these stoves are still heavily used and still being produced for purchase. There are many versions and even masonry heaters that work on same principle.

Most in Scandinavia burn narrow splits and usually birch. Although spruce is also common but usually avoided.

 

[Alpine1]

As far as I know that kind of stove was common in Norway and Denmark. Today only one model (with 2 or 3 stages) is still made by a Norwegian manufacturer (Ulefoss) and installation is allowed only because etasjeovn is considered a cultural heritage. You need a special permission to sell one outside Norway because it’s not clean burning (tried to buy one!). The other is the Mørso 2b Classic which is smaller but with tube secondary burn technology. Easily available here.

 

[Jordan]

As far as I know that kind of stove was common in Norway and Denmark. Today only one model (with 2 or 3 stages) is still made by a Norwegian manufacturer (Ulefoss) and installation is allowed only because etasjeovn is considered a cultural heritage. You need a special permission to sell one outside Norway because it’s not clean burning (tried to buy one!). The other is the Mørso 2b Classic which is smaller but with tube secondary burn technology. Easily available here.

The key to purchasing is through the UK. The exchange is usually better anyway.

Most modern stoves I don't care to look at or want in my home. The exceptions are the Morso 2B, Jotul 118, and Jotul 602. Otherwise I stick with the older stoves. There's always the smaller producers that are void of enforcement that still make new/old designs for sale in the USA.

 

[bholler]

The key to purchasing is through the UK. The exchange is usually better anyway.

Most modern stoves I don't care to look at or want in my home. The exceptions are the Morso 2B, Jotul 118, and Jotul 602. Otherwise I stick with the older stoves. There's always the smaller producers that are void of enforcement that still make new/old designs for sale in the USA.

Have you ever used a modern stove? They really are allot better.

As far as aesthetics go there are lots of more traditional looking cast iron stoves being made.

 

[bholler]

And no the old jotuls do not come close to the efficency of modern ones

 

[peakbagger]

The "Russian fireplace" (closer to masonry heater than a fireplace) designs probably had the record for long flame path. Built right they really pulled the heat out of the fire. Built wrong and they plugged solid fairly quickly. The smart designs had clean out ports so the interior passages could be cleaned, the dumb ones didn't. Definitely two different approaches, the Norwegian stoves were designed for hot quick fires matched to the current heating load while the Russian "fireplaces" where designed for a hot fire every few days and enough mass so the heat took awhile to make it out to the room. Similar in concept to boiler with storage.

I know someone that is planning a Russian Fireplace, I think he is going the smart way where he buys a set of proven interior components like a Temp Cast and then supplied the mass around it. He has massive concrete block coming up out a granite ledge for a base.

 

[Alpine1]

That’s called a Finnish fireplace in Europe. We have something similar here in the eastern alps, my father in law had one. Took two weeks to build and several tons of fire resistant bricks and concrete. Very efficient and very costly!

 

[Sawset]

This is a stove from Bergen, Norway. The story that goes with it is about a city wide fire some time around 1702, and afterwards a concerted effort to "upgrade" from open fireplaces to something like this.

 

[Jordan]

Its interesting to read peoples views on Modern verses Traditional stoves. Its hard to believe a traditional stove is a poor choice in many circumstances.

Home efficiency always trumps stove efficiency. Additionally most aren't attentive enough to maintain traditional stove efficiently. This leads to most taking the new stove path.

I know folks in Vermont heating there entire house(1500sq.ft) on less then 2 cords a winter. That includes there hot water and with a non-epa certified cook stove. I heat my 1000sq.ft home with a Jotul 404 on less then 2 cords and my home has an open loft and single pain windows.

Its all very intriguing because I think theres a divide in how stoves are used, wood care, and home construction in other countries. My methods and abilities have greatly improved looking abroad.

 

[bholler]

Its interesting to read peoples views on Modern verses Traditional stoves. Its hard to believe a traditional stove is a poor choice in many circumstances.

Home efficiency always trumps stove efficiency. Additionally most aren't attentive enough to maintain traditional stove efficiently. This leads to most taking the new stove path.

I know folks in Vermont heating there entire house(1500sq.ft) on less then 2 cords a winter. That includes there hot water and with a non-epa certified cook stove. I heat my 1000sq.ft home with a Jotul 404 on less then 2 cords and my home has an open loft and single pain windows.

Its all very intriguing because I think theres a divide in how stoves are used, wood care, and home construction in other countries. My methods and abilities have greatly improved looking abroad.

Have you ever used a modern stove to heat your house?

 

[Jordan]

Have you ever used a modern stove to heat your house?

Only in other homes. Not one I built and live in.

Some new stoves really are very efficient but I'm not convinced the only solution. I would always recommend a properly sized Traditional stove over not having one at all. In some cases Traditional are just as well suited to modern.

 

[SpaceBus]

We just picked thia stove up Thursday morning! It's 10 or less outside and our 1975 Salt box is 70+ inside. This stove punches well above its weight and the radiant heat is amazing. We considered many stoves, including antique, but this was the best stove we could both agree on.

 

[Jordan]

Thats a great stove @SpaceBus. The Morso 2B is a lot like the Jotul 118. A real performer and true classic.

 

[bholler]

Thats a great stove @SpaceBus. The Morso 2B is a lot like the Jotul 118. A real performer and true classic.

No it is actually a modern stove in a classic case. And stoves like it can actually be to good at extracting heat which can lead to excessive creosote buildup. They are good stoves but they are nowhere near as easy to run as many other modern stoves.

 

[Jordan]

No it is actually a modern stove in a classic case. And stoves like it can actually be to good at extracting heat which can lead to excessive creosote buildup. They are good stoves but they are nowhere near as easy to run as many other modern stoves.

I know its a modern Morso but so is the Jotul 118. They are proven designs and you aren't forced to look at something modern.

If its about ease turn the thermostat and forget wood entirely. Could get a pellet or LP if one wanted to fake it. Or better yet just move to Florida and you don't need a heat source at all. Thats even easier. No thermostat to adjust.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. Its just ridiculous to think of heating with wood as a form of ease. The process of burning wood is innate to the human character. It feeds something deep within the human psyche. Thats why everyone is drawn to the flame and its irreplaceable to the human mind and experience.

Perhaps thats what intrigues me about the older Scandinavian stoves. I think there's forgotten value in that design.

 

[Fiddler]

I know its a modern Morso but so is the Jotul 118. They are proven designs and you aren't forced to look at something modern.

If its about ease turn the thermostat and forget wood entirely. Could get a pellet or LP if one wanted to fake it. Or better yet just move to Florida and you don't need a heat source at all. Thats even easier. No thermostat to adjust.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. Its just ridiculous to think of heating with wood as a form of ease. The process of burning wood is innate to the human character. It feeds something deep within the human psyche. Thats why everyone is drawn to the flame and its irreplaceable to the human mind and experience.

Perhaps thats what intrigues me about the older Scandinavian stoves. I think there's forgotten value in that design.

I don't really have an opinion about the new vs. old debate. I just think my Morso 2B is a cool little stove.

 

[bholler]

Only in other homes. Not one I built and live in.

Some new stoves really are very efficient but I'm not convinced the only solution. I would always recommend a properly sized Traditional stove over not having one at all. In some cases Traditional are just as well suited to modern.

I never said modern stoves were the only choice. Classics can still work very well. But as someone who switched from a very good classic the cawley lemay 600 to a modern stove 2 different ones now. There is no way i would ever go back. And there are very few who would.

 

[bholler]

I know its a modern Morso but so is the Jotul 118. They are proven designs and you aren't forced to look at something modern.

If its about ease turn the thermostat and forget wood entirely. Could get a pellet or LP if one wanted to fake it. Or better yet just move to Florida and you don't need a heat source at all. Thats even easier. No thermostat to adjust.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. Its just ridiculous to think of heating with wood as a form of ease. The process of burning wood is innate to the human character. It feeds something deep within the human psyche. Thats why everyone is drawn to the flame and its irreplaceable to the human mind and experience.

Perhaps thats what intrigues me about the older Scandinavian stoves. I think there's forgotten value in that design.

Of course heating with wood will never be as easy as an automatic central heating system. But with many modern stoves it is much easier to run them correctly with much longer clean burns and more heat from your wood.

As far as aesthetics there are lots of stoves available with a classic look. There are the vermont castings stoves (which i dont like the functionality or reliability of). There are hamptons blazeking ashfords quadrafire makes some cast stoves as does pe. Napoleon enviro and others i am sure. And of course there are the more modern jotuls and morosos.

 

[bholler]

I don't really have an opinion about the new vs. old debate. I just think my Morso 2B is a cool little stove.

I agree they are

 

[SpaceBus]

Thats a great stove @SpaceBus. The Morso 2B is a lot like the Jotul 118. A real performer and true classic.

Thank you!

I was very torn between the two, but the EPA F118 has a lot of issues. I would have preferred the longer burn time of the F118, but the durability was very questionable, and also no longer has a true N/S cigar style burn. The 2B definitely punches well above our weight and got a real workout with 10 f for the first night after we installed it. Another thing about the 2B that separates it from the Jotul is the way air is directed. The Jotul has an intake on the back of the stove like the 2B, but it also provides primary air to the rear of the firebox. The 2B only gets secondary air at the back of the stove, and this makes the 2B a real cigar burn stove. The secondaries on the Morso are also built into the top of the firebox instead of tubes. This robs a bit of firebox space, but it is very unlikely to have an issues. Many F118 owners report issues, I haven't seen a single complaint about a 2B online anywhere.

We have a small home with a rectangular open floor plan. Our stove is pointed at the exterior wall and this makes the large radiant sides pointed at us rather than our windows. The previous owners of our home had a 1975 defiant, but much heat was wasted since the larges surface of the stove pointed at the windows. It was too big of a stove and had a lot of issues. Even if it were in perfect condition, my wife still wouldn't have liked it due to the complexity. The Morso is dead simple.

We absolutely love it!

 

[SpaceBus]

I don't really have an opinion about the new vs. old debate. I just think my Morso 2B is a cool little stove.

They look great, perform well, low emissions, and dead reliable. It even looks good in the summer!