'nuther question regards distance of CO Monitor from stove?
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Jake (the Fireman) should chime in here, and give you his "Professional" opinion, but..............
Our Co Detector is at the top of the stairs, about 20 feet from the stove, mounted on the ceiling. I figure, it will go off, if it has to. Something inside my pea brain makes me believe that no stove is perfectly free from having leakage; and that being the belief, I'd think that if I put the Co detector really close to the stove, it might go off more often, for minor releases.
It would seem to me that Co in more "regular" and "intense" releases is what I'm trying to monitor, more than an occasional spit or two. Thus the placement near the bedrooms, on the ceiling, and not just above the stove.
There ought to be instructions on the package when you buy one, that tells you the ideal locations for them. I would imagine that there are folks who put "one in every room" ...........when is enough, "enough?"
-Soupy1957
Our Co Detector is at the top of the stairs, about 20 feet from the stove, mounted on the ceiling. I figure, it will go off, if it has to. Something inside my pea brain makes me believe that no stove is perfectly free from having leakage; and that being the belief, I'd think that if I put the Co detector really close to the stove, it might go off more often, for minor releases.
It would seem to me that Co in more "regular" and "intense" releases is what I'm trying to monitor, more than an occasional spit or two. Thus the placement near the bedrooms, on the ceiling, and not just above the stove.
There ought to be instructions on the package when you buy one, that tells you the ideal locations for them. I would imagine that there are folks who put "one in every room" ...........when is enough, "enough?"
-Soupy1957
We have two CO monitors in the house- one is mounted on the side of our lower cabinets at the top of the basement stairs, the second is mounted at the top of the stairs leading to the second floor bedrooms.
Interesting question about CO being up high or down low. CO has a vapor density of .97 (air=1) which means that it is lighter than air, but not by much. This means that CO will tend to stay at the level where it is released or tend to rise slightly. It will also move with the air into which it is released, so hot air rising will potentially move the CO higher, but as the air cools it may drop. My monitors are at waist height with the thought I would split the difference between the two. I also have friends that put them in wall outlets closer to the floor and have had them go off at that level.
I would be interested in anyone else's thoughts on the matter.
Interesting question about CO being up high or down low. CO has a vapor density of .97 (air=1) which means that it is lighter than air, but not by much. This means that CO will tend to stay at the level where it is released or tend to rise slightly. It will also move with the air into which it is released, so hot air rising will potentially move the CO higher, but as the air cools it may drop. My monitors are at waist height with the thought I would split the difference between the two. I also have friends that put them in wall outlets closer to the floor and have had them go off at that level.
I would be interested in anyone else's thoughts on the matter.
In the case of carbon monoxide, the prudent thing to me would be put them at the level that you are going to be breathing. In the bedroom - roughly pillow level. Near the stove - roughly the headrest level on a tilted back recliner. In the bar - the level of the brass foot rail. ;p
I've got one of those detectors that tell you the level CO, but I've never seen it above 0.... Humm makes me think maybe I should test it out. Any ideas?
The local volunteer fire department came out this fall, checked our smoke detectors, and gave us some new ones. They told me the CO detector should be on the ceiling near the bedrooms, not in the room with the stove. In my house, the stove is downstairs, the bedrooms upstairs.
Hankjones said:
Do you have a garage? Is your car parked in it? If so, take the detector out to the garage and start up the car. Your alarm should start screaming in 30 seconds.
We used to have a bathroom that had it's exhaust fan vented out to the garage, and every time we started the car up in winter (just to back out of the garage) enough CO came in through that bathroom vent and into the house to start the alarm.
"The local volunteer fire department came out this fall, checked our smoke detectors, and gave us some new ones. They told me the CO detector should be on the ceiling near the bedrooms........"
Good to know that mine is located properly..........ty.
-Soupy1957
Good to know that mine is located properly..........ty.
-Soupy1957
Hankjones said:
According to the laws of chemistry, one should also be able to make significant amounts of CO by dropping a couple of wet splits on a really hot bed of coals. The steam released reacts with the hot coals in a reaction called "steam gasification": C + H2O --> CO + H2 (carbon plus water vapor produces carbon monoxide plus hydrogen gas).
The hydrogen gas molecules instantly burn off to form more water molecules (that's why you don't hear about people's stoves filling up with hydrogen and exploding when they put some wet wood on top of hot coals
). The carbon monoxide, however, is somewhat less reactive and although many of the carbon monoxide molecules will doubtlessly further oxidize to carbon dioxide, my expectation is that -- with the door of the stove open -- enough CO might escape to set off a nearby CO detector when you expose hot coals to water vapor (whether via wet wood or by directly "misting" some water vapor over the coals witha spray bottle).
Curious to know if anyone has indeed noticed something like that happening?
Henk
Hankjones said:
The monitor should have a test button on it. If you are really interested, you could hold it by the exhaust of your car/snowblower etc. however be careful for you could foul the sensor.
Just last week I purchased new set of wired smoke detectors to replace the ones I had that have been going off with temperature changes. On the level with the stove, I got a dual detector, smoke / CO, $47 compared $14 for the smoke only. Why not it can't be a bad thing to have CO. But we never had a CO based on my non scientific, uncorroborated theory that we don't need one. My theory, the heat is electric base board, no odorless CO from them. The wood stove, if any of the exhaust gasses escapes into the house you know it, far from odorless. So where does the odorless CO come from. Maybe I'm missing something here, what do you guys think, are we lucky to be alive.
Tom
Tom
!
xman23 said:
I think there is a certain logic to that, especially if you don't run that stove or fireplace overnight. Many (most?) combustion-related CO-poisoning cases occur while people sleep. They simply don't wake up anymore. Not much to smell if you're sleeping well. Perhaps a dog or other pet might wake up and sound the alarm, if you're very lucky.
Also, if your stove suddenly starts smoking/smelling a lot (for whatever reason) are you immediately gonna evacuate the house? Probably you'll simply tough it out, at least for an hour or so, while trying to figure out what's going on and then fix it. Most likely, you'll rationalize it by saying to yourself: "that dam last load must have been a lot wetter than I thought", or whatever comes up in your mind.
Now play that same scenario but with the monitor going off as well and showing you're being exposed too very dangerous levels of CO. Are you going to ignore that too, and tough it out till you have things fixed or do you get everyone out of the house until levels are safe again??
So, yes even when you think there is a problem, knowing the CO levels is going to enable you to make better, safer decisions.
Henk
Boozie said:
Standard answer: Check the manual.
Real answer: Most manufacturers and experts suggest that the CO detector be placed at least 15 feet from any potential CO source to avoid false alarms . . . quite honestly while anything that burns can produce CO I would suggest that the most likely CO source would not be a woodstove in most homes, but would be the gas- or oil-fueled appliances (hot water heater, dryer, stove, etc.) . . . well that and the dummies who insist on bringing the gasoline powered generators into their home during a power outage.
High or low . . . doesn't matter so much . . . CO rises when heated, but very quickly reaches room temp and can be found at every level in the air. In addition, in most cases CO poisonings work on a time/exposure amount deal . . . i.e. most of the cases I have seen were low to moderate levels, but the levels were inhaled over a matter of many, many minutes (sometimes hours) . . . don't get me wrong though . . . there can be bad CO calls when there is a limited exposure to high amounts of CO.
Remkel said:
My opinion . . . height in the room doesn't matter so much . . . having them vs. not having them . . . well that matters.
Hankjones said:
I would think it is probably working as it should . . . and I would not intentionally expose it to CO less you ruin the sensor. Just guessing here . . . probably a Nighthawk . . . maybe First Alert . . . good brands . . . ideally you should never hear your CO detector (or smoke detector) for that matter go off . . . unless it is the real deal.
colebrookman said:
Good to see that my info jives with the professionals . . . and that it hasn't changed much over the years. Of course this is what I do for a living . . . teach fire and life safety.
Thanks for the link Colebrookman.
Wood Duck said:
No offense to the local brigade, but line firefighters (volunteer, paid call or career) don't always know or offer the best advice . . . much in the same way that I don't have the best EMS skills since I don't routinely ride on the ambulance.
As for the location in terms of height . . . I stand by my previous statements . . . it doesn't matter. As for specific room location . . . they were close. Most experts suggest that if you just get one CO detector you install it in the hallway outside the bedrooms . . . if you get other CO detectors you can install them "near" any likely CO source, every level of the house or bedroom.
xman23 said:
About the only time I tell folks that they probably don't need a CO detector is if they have an all-electric home -- no oil appliances, no gas appliances and no woodstove. The chances of CO issues arising from a woodstove are pretty slim . . . in terms of everyday, normal occurences (i.e. calls not involving folks with the gasoline generators) I mostly see issues with gas and oil furnaces -- especially with cracked heat exchangers. With the cracked oil furnace heat exchanger you may smell the oil . . . with gas . . . it's more of an issue. Fumes from cars idling in an attached garage could be an issue . . . but I don't see or hear this very often.
In fact my brother had a propane furnace malfunction on him . . . never smelled gas or CO . . . but the CO detector did its job. I'm a big believer of CO detectors . . .
earlll said:
Yes. The molecular weight of CO (28 amu) is similar to that of N2 (nitrogen gas) with just a few thousandths of 1 amu difference. If it were to separate out on the basis of this minuscule difference from N2, O2 (oxygen gas; 32 amu) would be separating out from N2 much much faster....
Alas, you can't get more oxygen by just laying on the floor.
In very cold conditions (i.e. minimizing spontaneous convective air movementa), however, and in the absence of external air disturbances (wind, fans, people walking through, etc.), layers from any of these gases that are carefully released at different heights might take quite awhile to fully mix
Henk
PyMS said:
WTF (Win the Future) !
Webmaster: how do I remove a screwed up double posting like this?
Henk
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