Once more, with feeling: how big a woodstove?

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davisftaylor

New Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Hi Folks,

New to the forum, thanx to all who put in so much time and effort on this great topic.

I am having a cabin built in mid-coast Maine, trying to decide how big (and what brand) a wood stove to get. Read a lot of posts, but it's clear from what is written that every situation is unique, so I'd like to describe mine and see what you all think. Here are the details:

-My cabin is very small...a 386 sq footprint, with two stories, so 768 square feet...plus a walk-out, cement-lined basement underneath

-We will live in the cabin year-around. It is about 30 minutes in from the coast, and we can expect a handful of nights below zero each winter

-We have back-up propane, but would like to do 80 - 100 percent of heating with wood.

-insulation is excellent; there are quite a few windows on the first floor, a few on the second, all are 10-15 years old (recycled) double-pane.

-the stove will go on the first floor, fairly close to the stairwell that leads up to the 2nd floor

-the floor between 1st and 2nd floor is THIN...2 "one-bys" (so, 3/4 inch thick) pine boards, for a total thickness of 1 1/2 inch...friends have suggested I'll have to be careful that the 2nd floor doesn't get too hot, because it will be so easy for heat to get thru the floor to the 2nd floor

My contractor all the while has been saying that I should go with the smallest stove possible or I'll fry, e.g. Jotul F602. But the local dealers are suggesting going for a larger stove, saying that the manufacturer's square footage recommendations are too high (e.g. said Jotul can't really heat 800 sq ft). For a larger stove, we're looking at an Englander 13. Locally available brands include Jotul, Englander, Lopi, Vermont Castings, and (I'm leaving a few out, can't recall). Folks on this site seem to think Englander is okay, and they're much less expensive; but if we go with the smaller stove, we want glass in the door, doesn't appear Englander has that, so we'll go Jotul.

We're aware of the trade-offs between heat and burn time. Of course we'd like to burn thru the night, but realize that's probably not likely. We're not adverse to restocking the stove in the middle of the night, and/or restarting by building from a few coals. People around here in Maine seem to be more concerned about creosote build-up, relative to the postings on this forum, so I'm also a bit lost on pros and cons of short hot fires versus closing the stove down to achieve a longer burn time. My sort-of hope is that the cabin is so well insulated that we could burn the fire pretty hot right before hitting the sack, and the cabin will still be warm when we wake 7-8 hours later, even if the stove goes out. We should have access to well-seasoned oak, maple, and birch (and, oh, I'll bet some aspen will sneak in).

What would you recommend? Thank you very much!

Davis
 
Go with the castine, F400 I believe is the model. That is if you go with Jotul
 
I don't think Englander even makes a wood stove without a GENEROUS sized door glass. I'd look more closely at the Englander if cash is any concern. LOTS of bang for the buck, though not as pretty as a Jotul. And if you're wood is truly seasoned and you burn properly, creosote shouldn't be a problem. Trust me, you'll want to go for the overnight burn and be as warm as possible in the AM. My first year trying wood as a sole heat source was a disaster for many reasons and it soured the wife on the idea because we woke up cold in the morning.
 
Welcome Davis. If the goal is to heat as much as possible, 24/7 I would get a Woodstock Keystone. It will give you the flexibility and long burns you seek.

This very recent report may be helpful:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/68948/
 
Okay - this sounds pretty straight forward. A couple of thoughts:

Overnight burns equate to somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.0 cuft of firebox or larger.

Being heavily insulated, you will probably want something with a bit "softer" heat and an "even" heat. Maybe think soap stone, if you like those.

The NC13 sounds like a right size stove. The PE super 27 might also be a contender. Maybe take a look at the Woodstock Soapstone stoves, like the Fireview (or a Keystone as BG said)
 
Curious on your floor thickness and why you say it's thin. Normal floor in a modern house is anywhere from 3/4" to 1" OSB or plywood, so 1.5" would be a fairly thick floor. I'm not familiar with any of the stoves listed in this post, but I do know I love my Blaze King. If I only got a 7 or 8 hour burn I'd be doing something seriously wrong!
 
Probably the ideal setup for a small soapstone stove like the Keystone or Palladian from Woodstock.

But yeah, all of the Englanders have a yard of glass in the front of'em.
 
if it were me, i'd be looking at the NC-13, or the 17-VL. I think the both would work, but I'd worry about the 17 being too small to easily be a 24/7 burner. the 13 will get it done, and I think the problem you'll have is that good long burns require a bigger stove, but you are heating a small(ish) space, and you don't want to be roasting in there... Maybe a smaller soapstone stove would be good in this case, but I don't have much experience with that.
 
The NC 13 will do the job in a well insulated home of that size.

Ours heats 550 SF, and the over flow heats another 400 Sf through a side doorway. Fairly good insulation.

Welcome to the forums !
 
What would you recommend? Thank you very much!


REPLY:
The blaze king princess may be the one! It is one of the few stoves that has a thermostat so you can shut it way down and still be efficient. I am leaning toward the blaze king ultra for our alaskan home...
 
hotprinter said:
What would you recommend? Thank you very much!


REPLY:
The blaze king princess may be the one! It is one of the few stoves that has a thermostat so you can shut it way down and still be efficient. I am leaning toward the blaze king ultra for our alaskan home...


The Blaze King would be overkill in this situation. Which, coming from me, says a lot as I am a big fan of over-sizing.
 
Restocking in the middle of the night isn't what it is cracked up to be once you have done it for a few years. One reason is having to get the fire going and then cut the air back after 10-15 min. Ends up being a 20 min exercise unless you have automated controls.

I still am amazed that the woodstove guy quoted the right size for my house. Maybe 800sq ft over two stories (open design) with all glass on the two story open part. He cautioned me to go not small because of the tall space, but not to oversize to get long burn time because I would get burned out. The compromise was a QuadraFire 3100 with a 1.8 cu ft box. The burntime is about 8 hours at lowest air and larger sized wood.

I'm not familiar with soapstone stoves - I think they run longer than mine. Maybe someone can point this newcomer to a treatise on the differences between my iron/firebrick stove and others.
 
Pacific Energy True North maybe? Looks to be a great cabin heater. Less than 1k and built by a top of the line company. I think the way to go is bigger is better.

(broken image removed)
 
Another vote here for one of the smaller Soapstone stoves....little more even heat and a longer burn time....maybe a small soapstone cat model would be the best aproach.
 
I have a house that is electric heat plus a wood stove in the finished basement. I don't have to rely on wood, just try to use it to the fullest to reduce electric use. My basement room is about 500 sq. ft, with only moderate air movement to the rest of the house. I have a Lopi Republic 1250 woodstove with a 1.6 cubic ft firebox. Manufacturer says it will heat, I think, 800 to 1200 sq ft, so it is slightly oversized for the space according to the manufacturer, but manufacturers tend to overstate this it seems.

On cold nights (single digits) I start thinking my stove is too small. However, most of the time we have moderate winter weather here - days are at least in the 20s or low 30s for a high, and nights tend to be not lower than the 20s or teens, so it isn't bad by some standards. During typical weather, I tend to think my stove is just the right size. I can have a clean, hot fire without overheating downstairs, and I still get some heat from the stove upstairs. My point is that I wouldn't necessarily go for a stove you think is way oversized. It is nice to have a slightly oversized stove, but I don't think it would be great to have a big stove and always have to have small fires in it.

I like my stove and would recommend it to anyone, but on the other hand I haven't tried any other modern stoves. Maybe mine is really lame and I just don't know it.
 
DavisF said:
Hi Folks,

New to the forum, thanx to all who put in so much time and effort on this great topic.

I am having a cabin built in mid-coast Maine, trying to decide how big (and what brand) a wood stove to get. Very cool . . . which town/city if you don't mind me asking? Read a lot of posts, but it's clear from what is written that every situation is unique, so I'd like to describe mine and see what you all think. Here are the details:

-My cabin is very small...a 386 sq footprint, with two stories, so 768 square feet...plus a walk-out, cement-lined basement underneath

-We will live in the cabin year-around. It is about 30 minutes in from the coast, and we can expect a handful of nights below zero each winter

-We have back-up propane, but would like to do 80 - 100 percent of heating with wood.

-insulation is excellent; there are quite a few windows on the first floor, a few on the second, all are 10-15 years old (recycled) double-pane.

-the stove will go on the first floor, fairly close to the stairwell that leads up to the 2nd floor

-the floor between 1st and 2nd floor is THIN...2 "one-bys" (so, 3/4 inch thick) pine boards, for a total thickness of 1 1/2 inch...friends have suggested I'll have to be careful that the 2nd floor doesn't get too hot, because it will be so easy for heat to get thru the floor to the 2nd floor. Egads . . . I'm guessing you guys don't have any baby grand pianos or heavy safes on the second floor . . . I'm thinking that floor would be bouncing every time I walked across it.

My contractor all the while has been saying that I should go with the smallest stove possible or I'll fry, e.g. Jotul F602. But the local dealers are suggesting going for a larger stove, saying that the manufacturer's square footage recommendations are too high (e.g. said Jotul can't really heat 800 sq ft). For a larger stove, we're looking at an Englander 13. Locally available brands include Jotul, Englander, Lopi, Vermont Castings, and (I'm leaving a few out, can't recall). Folks on this site seem to think Englander is okay, and they're much less expensive; but if we go with the smaller stove, we want glass in the door, doesn't appear Englander has that, so we'll go Jotul. If I had a question about framing up a wall I would ask the contractor . . . if I had a question about heating my house with a stove I would ask the stove guy . . . and personally I agree with them . . . most folks who do what I did (some great advice I took away from here when I was looking at stoves) and figure out your spacing needs and then buy a stove just a little bit bigger than what they think they will need tend to be quite happy . . . especially when the temps do dip below zero and the winds are just a-howling. As I've said a few times -- when you're really cold it's a lot easier to build a bigger fire in a bigger firebox than it is to do so in a small firebox already filled to capacity . . . plus you avoid running a stove that is too small too hot and risk overfiring.

We're aware of the trade-offs between heat and burn time. Of course we'd like to burn thru the night, but realize that's probably not likely. We're not adverse to restocking the stove in the middle of the night, and/or restarting by building from a few coals. With the larger fireboxes you can actually run most if not all of the night -- depending on the temps, fuel and when you go to sleep and wake up . . . that said . . . having a long, overnight burn in a relatively small space which will require a stove with a smaller firebox than say the Oslo or Firelight could be a challenge. On the other hand . . . as much as I love Jotul . . . have you considered looking at a cat stove -- a Woodstock cat stove might be perfect for this application -- sized right, long and low burn so you don't get driven out of the home.

People around here in Maine seem to be more concerned about creosote build-up, relative to the postings on this forum, so I'm also a bit lost on pros and cons of short hot fires versus closing the stove down to achieve a longer burn time. Non-issue . . . you can do a short, hot burn or a long burn . . . creosote build up is most often found in my experience from folks who are burning unseasoned wood, not cleaning their chimney on a regular basis and do not know how to properly operate their stove in terms of air management and running at the proper temps. In my own case I can run either a quick, hot fire or a long-burning fire and do so cleanly . . . having good fuel helps. My sort-of hope is that the cabin is so well insulated that we could burn the fire pretty hot right before hitting the sack, and the cabin will still be warm when we wake 7-8 hours later, even if the stove goes out. Another reason to strongly consider a soapstone stove . . . and as much as I like the look of the Hearthstone models I might suggest the Woodstocks with their cats. We should have access to well-seasoned oak, maple, and birch (and, oh, I'll bet some aspen will sneak in). HehHeh . . . are you from around here originally? No one calls poplars aspens -- in fact most folks call it popple. Oh yeah, how do you define "well seasoned" -- are we talking moisture levels (i.e. moisture meter reading below X number) or time (i.e. cut, split and stacked for __months?)
What would you recommend? Thank you very much!

Davis
 
Another vote for Pacific Energy! I've been running a "Vista" for 5 years or so. I find it's compact, has short clearances, is very rugged, AND seems to have a slightly larger firebox, 1.5 cubic feet, than many other "small" stoves I looked at. I love the stainless baffle thing too, instead of the usual baffle/insulating blanket/air tubes/bricks etc. So that's what I think, anyway...
 
NATE379 said:
Curious on your floor thickness and why you say it's thin. Normal floor in a modern house is anywhere from 3/4" to 1" OSB or plywood, so 1.5" would be a fairly thick floor. I'm not familiar with any of the stoves listed in this post, but I do know I love my Blaze King. If I only got a 7 or 8 hour burn I'd be doing something seriously wrong!

Maybe I read it wrong . . . but it sounded as though they don't have normal 2 x 6 or 2 x 8 construction for the stringers . . . and may not have drywall on the ceilings which would provide an insulating air gap between the ceilings.
 
When making a stove choice I guess you would first need to narrow the field by deciding against steel, cast iron, or soap stone. I can only speak of the steel. The US Stove Magnolia is almost never mentioned here but after using and looking at the PEs and Englanders I don't see any reason to pay more. They aren't built any better and I can't imagine nor have I read where they perform any different. And at 700.00 it's one of the best bargains out there.
 
There are significant construction differences between the Magnolia and PE stoves. Though for this application, the Magnolia would be overkill.
 
Englander 30. Then sell the windows and insulation to pay for it, you won't be needing them. Seriously, how about a PE Alderlea T4-5?
 
Your living in this house year round so you need to be sure your prepared for the coldest temps. You can always load less wood or open window on warm day. Last night it was only -10c here and I let the T6 go out at 9pm. Just had to run it good in morning to catch up.

My vote is for a T5 you can cook on it in a pinch and those trivets are great for warming and drying things. This is a very soft heat stove so you can sit near it and not get blown away.
 
Thank you VERY much to everyone with the fantastic information! What I am taking away:

-should definitely go with something the size of an Englander 13, or maybe even a touch larger. Thanx, that might have been a costly error to go small
-should take a good hard look at soapstone.
-if I have good wood, I can burn hot and fast or long/slow.

For my neighbor in Bangor/Unity, the cabin is in Washington, Maine. Yeah, no pianos on the 2nd floor. And yeah, I almost wrote "popple," but no one out west knows what that means...

Thanx also for the info on creosote and hot/fast versus slow fires. I've never measured moisture content, but would consider wood that has dried in a dry shed to be well-seasoned. Is that the case? And also in the context of creosote (a question for anyone), I've heard of "proper operation of the stove" as another key to avoiding creosote...what constitutes proper operation, what are some key do's and don'ts in regard to creosote and stove operation?

Thanx again to all!

Davis
 
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