Out door furnaces

[wg_bent]

Are there any out door furnaces, preferrable dual fuel, wood with oil backup that don't pollute badly? I'd consider one if the unit fit all the criteria. Wood burner, oil backup, doesn't smoke out the neighbors when running.


Update:
well, I found this one. Any experience out there?

(broken link removed)

 

[elkimmeg]

There are none that meet EPA clean air acts mandates However there are dual fuel outdoor boilers. In my town 5 acre lots are required and they can not be any closer than 750' to the nearest neighbor's home It would have been 7 acres and 1,200', but one of our current selectmen has one and the 750' and 5 acres works for him. Any boiler that can burn green unseasoned wood, polutes and is not too effecient. The most effecient of the lot seems to be Central Boilers if 20 % is effecient. They also burn between 10 to 15 cords a year. It is my hope pressure is applied to this industry to make improvements in effeciency and polution. Basically they are un governed except in NY Wis. and WA. and some local comunities in Ma. Great idea if they would clean up their act

 

[webbie]

Are there any out door furnaces, preferrable dual fuel, wood with oil backup that don't pollute badly? I'd consider one if the unit fit all the criteria. Wood burner, oil backup, doesn't smoke out the neighbors when running.


Update:
well, I found this one. Any experience out there?

(broken link removed to http://www.freedomoutdoorfurnace.com/multifuel.html)

None that I know of, but in any case you should write or call to the manufacturers and ask - of course, they may BS you, but it lets them know they could sell more if they cleaned up their act.

The biggest player is Central Boiler, so it would seem they might be one of the first to update. Make certain you check here before you buy one so we can critique.

Of course, the TARM is the ultimate - but it is indoor. Some people put them in mechanical rooms or outbuildings.

The Greenwood is another nice, clean one, and the New Horizons guys (on our products page) also have clean burning gasifiers - but I think all or most are inside. After all, not too many people want to go out in a blizzard and fuel their stove.

 

[Eric Johnson]

All other considerations aside, it's a balancing act between going indoor and outdoor. Indoor you get a nice boost from the radiant heat coming off the boiler and the chimney, plus the efficiency of not having to circulate your water halfway across your property or go outside to fuel it. On the other hand, it's nice to have all the potential fire danger, smoke, dust, wood, etc., etc., halfway across your property, detatched from your house.

I think most people offset the first point by oversizing the boiler they buy.

Making an efficienct, clean-burning outdoor boiler must be a big challenge, or Central Boiler would have done it by now. I remember a couple of years ago they had one with an oil-fired backup that was supposed to burn the smoke off during start-up, but their promotional efforts evolved into promoting the convenience of having an oil backup, and said very little about the smoke mitigation scheme. Presumably, it didn't work very well.

After Corie gets his stove done, I'm going to try to talk him into tackling a clean-burning boiler.

 

[begreen]

Are there any out door furnaces, preferrable dual fuel, wood with oil backup that don't pollute badly? I'd consider one if the unit fit all the criteria. Wood burner, oil backup, doesn't smoke out the neighbors when running.


Update:
well, I found this one. Any experience out there?

(broken link removed to http://www.freedomoutdoorfurnace.com/multifuel.html)

This company doesn't seem to offer any stats on pollution or efficiency of their unit. What is the price?

I investigated this subject pretty thoroughly last year for a friend that was considering buying one. What I found was that they are expensive, very inefficient, pollute badly, and generally make bad neighbors. I came to the conclusion that Craig stated, if you really want one, by a better quality indoor wood gasification boiler and put it in a small, metal shed, installed with a tall stack.

Here is some useful info with good links to read before deciding. The users' experiences are particularly interesting:
(broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outboiler.htm)

 

[wg_bent]

Thanks guys. This is basically what I found also. None are really up to snuff yet. The question came from my wife who was looking to see if we could reclaim the space in our basement for a bath by putting the furnace outside, plus get the advantage of dual fuel at the same time. Not a bad idea (especially from her since she usually doesn't put that much together at once The Osburn now has her thinking differently). I had already thought of a tarm installed in an outbuilding, but am somewhat afraid of freezing it during a power outage.. Need to think, research, email some more.

 

[Eric Johnson]

You can take care of the freeze problem by using heating system glycol. A better (but not necessarily cheaper) solution would be to have a generator or battery pack on standby to keep the pump running during a power outage. Do it right, and you can heat your house in the process. Having some way to dissipate the hot water around the firebox in the event of a power failure is necessary anyway, so you don't overheat it. That hot water has go to go somewhere.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, you might want to consider getting a bigger boiler than your house would normally require, since you will have some inefficiency between the outbuilding and your house.

 

[elkimmeg]

Thinking your situation threw: Have you given and consideration to what low temps does to # 2 fuel oil stored outside?

1> The lower sulfer fuel start congealing at about 10 degrees.

2> tankless hot water system could freeze up not recomended a separate zone valve or circulator to a boiler buddy would solve it provided it is antifreezed.

3.> common oil boilers are equiped with a variable supply valve tied into your domestic water. The pressure in your existing domestic system fills or replaces recharges the system as water is depleated. One way around that, is to setup up a pressurized tank filled with antifreeze that will feed the variable supply valve/

4> The feed and return lines will need some serious insulation to prevent heat loss in transmission to your home.

A boiler can be located outside but as Eric pointed out, the need to circulate water during a power outage has to be considered. A well though out approach need to be implemented. Have you seen the whole house boilers that are wall mounted and direct vented?
That could free up the space in your cellar for your other needs. then let your wood stove run which would lessen your heating demands. I think you will find this economically your best solution.

 

[wg_bent]

Thinking your situation threw: Have you given and consideration to what low temps does to # 2 fuel oil stored outside?

1> The lower sulfer fuel start congealing at about 10 degrees.

2> tankless hot water system could freeze up not recomended a separate zone valve or circulator to a boiler buddy would solve it provided it is antifreezed.

3.> common oil boilers are equiped with a variable supply valve tied into your domestic water. The pressure in your existing domestic system fills or replaces recharges the system as water is depleated. One way around that, is to setup up a pressurized tank filled with antifreeze that will feed the variable supply valve/

4> The feed and return lines will need some serious insulation to prevent heat loss in transmission to your home.

A boiler can be located outside but as Eric pointed out, the need to circulate water during a power outage has to be considered. A well though out approach need to be implemented. Have you seen the whole house boilers that are wall mounted and direct vented?
That could free up the space in your cellar for your other needs. then let your wood stove run which would lessen your heating demands. I think you will find this economically your best solution.

Wall mount whole house boilers? I think a friend of mine has one...you got a link Elk...Good suggestion!!

 

[begreen]

My research led me to the same conclusion. We covered this in another thread. Monitor and Dunkirk are reported to make good condensing oil boilers at 95% efficiency. They are compact and could easily handle your house.

Here's a helpful listing:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/boilers_prod_list.pdf

 

[wg_bent]

My research led me to the same conclusion. We covered this in another thread. Monitor and Dunkirk are reported to make good condensing oil boilers at 95% efficiency. They are compact and could easily handle your house.

Here's a helpful listing:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/boilers_prod_list.pdf

Hey Green, I poked a bit, didn't see the other thread you mentioned (and I don't remember it). You remember the title of it?
I'll go read that.

 

[begreen]

Here ya go:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2201/

 

[beefalocows]

My research led me to the same conclusion. We covered this in another thread. Monitor and Dunkirk are reported to make good condensing oil boilers at 95% efficiency. They are compact and could easily handle your house.

Here's a helpful listing:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/boilers_prod_list.pdf

Hey Green, I poked a bit, didn't see the other thread you mentioned (and I don't remember it). You remember the title of it?
I'll go read that.

 

[beefalocows]

Has anyone heard about the Econoburn made in New York state wood boiler or have one running