Outdoor boiler

[Bwhunter85]

I am having a hard time getting any information out of dealers that I've contacted. Any words of advice? I've contacted Central Boiler, Heatmor, Natures Comfort, and Woodmasters dealers in/around west Michigan to no avail. Just looking for a dealer to come out and take a look at my setup to see where to place boiler and possibly help with install/parts.

 

[jebatty]

Talk to dealers of genuine wood gasification boilers, generally intended for indoor installation, but install the wood gasification boiler outdoors in a small outdoor building with additional storage in the shed or your heated space, and I think you will end up with a superior system. Regardless of the boiler you choose, give careful attentive to the design of the system to make sure it can perform as desired.

 

[flyingcow]

I agree with jebatty. usually you'll find the price of an indoor gasser, plus the cost of an out building to put it in, will be about the same dollars as a typical OWB. And be far more efficient and basically no smoke issues.

Also look at these? (broken link removed to http://www.econoburn.com/index.php/products/outside-ebw-150-o)
Or maybe this? (broken link removed)

heard some good things about these two co's.

 

[flyingcow]

Also, be a little weary of the typical salesman of OWB;s when it comes to properly sizing a unit for your house. Some have less knowledge of hydronics than me, which is not good.

 

[maple1]

Talk to dealers of genuine wood gasification boilers, generally intended for indoor installation, but install the wood gasification boiler outdoors in a small outdoor building with additional storage in the shed or your heated space, and I think you will end up with a superior system.

And if you can make enough room in your boiler shed for your entire winters wood too, you'll be even more superior.

 

[Whitepine2]

I agree with jebatty. usually you'll find the price of an indoor gasser, plus the cost of an out building to put it in, will be about the same dollars as a typical OWB. And be far more efficient and basically no smoke issues.

Also look at these? (broken link removed to http://www.econoburn.com/index.php/products/outside-ebw-150-o)
Or maybe this? (broken link removed)

heard some good things about these two co's.

Cant say enough about my Optimizer 250 good support have had mine for 4 years good luck.

 

[duramaxman05]

Cant say enough about my Optimizer 250 good support have had mine for 4 years good luck.

Same with my bl28-40. Excellent service and robert has called me a few time through the winter and late spring to see how everything was going and if i had any questions. I cant say enough about there products and service. They may be a little more expensive but the service knowing if i ever have a question or anything, is well worth it in my book. How many of the other companies sell you the product and then you never hear from them again? I didnt want that. So i couldnt be happier

 

[jasonh]

What's the cost of a P&M 250?

 

[Whitepine2]

What's the cost of a P&M 250?

Don't know but I would guess 11 to 14K. You can google P&M and get onto their sight
and call and inquire they will give you the cost,like most stuff price is higher as time goes on.

 

[jasonh]

I was looking at Obadiah's site and it was around 12k. Since its a gasification boiler, does it need storage? That seems to be the concensus on this site, gasification=storage, to be as efficient as the boiler can be.

 

[maple1]

It's not so much gasification = storage, as it is boiler = storage.

Storage is used to eliminate idling - the boiler burns wide open & excess heat above heat demand goes to storage to be used later. Gasification or not. That leads to batch burning, or burning wide open until the fuel is all gone, and not burning again until you need the heat again. That means there will be periods of time that your boiler will not be burning, or will go cold. Which may or may not prove to be a challenge for an OWB. Which is why an IWB in an outbuilding is a good alternative choice, as opposed to an OWB.

 

[jasonh]

Yes I understand the concept of batch burning, but no where have I read that the P&M 250 needs/uses storage. Does it idle like an owb except that it gasifies when it is burning? All the brochure explains is the concept of gasification.

Thanks maple. How did the varm do this winter?

 

[maple1]

It did great - 3rd winter is now in the books. I still haven't swept my chimney in those 3 years, and aside from a quick tube brushing very weekend and cleaning ash out of the smoke pipe twice a year it has had no maintenance or repairs. Should be all ready to go for winter 4.

I don't think the 250, or any OWB, NEEDS storage, and is designed to work without it. The same thing would apply to most indoor boilers, also - there are very few that actually need it (mine is one, as there is no draft control on it so it needs the storage to take the heat until the fire goes out). But most all boilers would benefit from it to eliminate idling. So consider it an option, I guess. Yes, it would idle like an ordinary OWB. And burn cleaner than one when not idling. I have no experience with one, but have read postings from others that the period when coming out of idle & getting going again can be just as smokey as an ordinary OWB, until the creosote that accumulated when idling burns off & the fire gets going good again.

 

[jasonh]

That's good maple! Glad to hear it's doing what's it's supposed too. I see dean has a few scratch and dent and showroom models available which is tempting. I talked to a guy from P&M this morning and he said it does idle when the house doesn't call for heat. It sounds to me like a glorified owb but way way more efficient. The guy I talked to (can't remember his name now) basically compared it to (actually I did) a hot water heater. The boiler will let it cool down to 170 then heat it back up to 185 or so. It pretty much cycles on and off like a water heater.

 

[Whitepine2]

I was looking at Obadiah's site and it was around 12k. Since its a gasification boiler, does it need storage? That seems to be the concensus on this site, gasification=storage, to be as efficient as the boiler can be.

Been running my 250 for 4 years w/o storage no trouble what so ever. I did try storage at
first but found it to be more trouble than worth,used an old bulk milk tank,one with direct-
expansion just run hot water where the coolant went and heated water that way.It worked
but I didn't like it as good as using a HX has worked fine for me for 4 years.

 

[jasonh]

I don't know what I want to do. So many options and scenarios. I could get the idm 100, which is all I "think" I would need for 8500......roughly. or go with a varm, attack, eko, biomass, etc and put storage in for roughly or a little more. Apparently I have alot more research to do.

I'm not counting the pipe or shed to put it in because that would be needed for either one. So to me that's a wash.

I haven't seen to many posts about P&M but that's good. To me that means it's working as it should.

I haven't been on here for awhile. I forgot how much I enjoyed this site!

 

[flyingcow]

There are a lot of options. Just for a hobby, check out online classifieds. You might stumble across someone that has had a change of heart with burning wood. Now you've done some research, you got a decent idea of boiler choices.

 

[heaterman]

First thing to do is figure out what your heating load actually is in terms of maximum btu's per hour. This is going to tell you what size boiler you need, what pump(s) you have to get and, of utmost importance, what size underground tubing you'll have to invest in.
And I do mean invest! Underground tube is the one thing that I see make or break projects for people most frequently. There simply are no shortcuts with it.

As Master Yoda put it, "Shortcuts there are not, Works or it does not"!

If you're going to put up a shed outside for the boiler anyway, put a Garn Jr on your short list of boilers to look at. It's a very clean burning boiler, efficient and holds 1,000 gallons of internal storage. Very simple to operate, maintain and use. Price will be in the $12,000 range and they are a tried and true 20 year+ unit with decent care and maintenance.

http://www.garn.com/products/

 

[jasonh]

Heaterman I agree with all you say. I emailed you a couple years ago about a garn. It is a nice unit but it's a lot of money, not counting the underground pipe. We'll see what happens. I'm not going to jump into anything. I'm the kind of person that has everything planned out prior to laying any money out.

 

[heaterman]

Heaterman I agree with all you say. I emailed you a couple years ago about a garn. It is a nice unit but it's a lot of money, not counting the underground pipe. We'll see what happens. I'm not going to jump into anything. I'm the kind of person that has everything planned out prior to laying any money out.

So what is your budget? .....Other than "as little as possible", like the rest of us...

 

[jasonh]

Hopefully no more than 10k for the boiler, storage and piping. Hopefully no more than 12k including the underground pipe. Not sure if this is feasible or not.

 

[jasonh]

And as little as possible.

 

[duramaxman05]

Thats about what i have in buying my bl28-40 and everything to install. I did everything myself. I would say $10,000 should cover it, but that depends on how far away you put the boiler from the house. The insulated pex makes up most of the cost of the install. I had to run 50' of at $6 a foot. So $300 just for that. I would shol around for the rest of the stuff. Local dealers are expensive. And i found home depot is the cheapest i have found for sharkbite fittings as wells the rest of the fittings, clamps and pex tubing

 

[jasonh]

Thanks duramax. I'm really thinking of a varm 37. They have a couple boilers that were showroom pieces so their discounted. I would look around and find an old propane tank or tanks for 500+ of storage. I could sell my chimney liner (maybe) and blaze king and recoup some of my money for the underground pipe. I would get thermopex or logstor for piping. Probably thermo. I would say it's no more than 175' from the house. I bought an 18'x20 carport and plan on siding 10' in for a shed, 10' for the dump trailer I want to get and other miscellaneous things. I split another one with my dad so I have another 18'x10' for wood storage. I plan on picking up another 18'x20' for another 10' of wood storage and the remaining 10'x20' would be my "boiler shed". So I don't count the carports in my calcs cause I need them for storage anyway.
The wood, fire and mess will be away from the house and detached garage so the misses should be happy.

Maybe I should start my own thread and not hijack the OP.

Sorry bwhunter.

 

[duramaxman05]

Also before you buy your tubing and pump, there is a pump sizing chart that you use to figure out what you use. The size of pex, length of runs of pex, fitting, heat exchangers all play a major factor in this. I did not know any of this until i already had my system installed. I learned all this from this place. This is one awesome place and some awesome people on here to get info from. They do the pump sizing calculation to get the most out of your system. I wish i would have went with 1 1/4" pex after doing the formula.