Ovalized Flex liner

[MNtreewood]

Hi all, new forum user. What a great site, I've spent a lot hours today going through many informative posts!

I did a search and didn't find much info pertaining to ovalized flex liners. I just want to see if the one the the supplier sized sounds correct.

Some facts about the stove/chimney. This liner is going in a masonry chimney that sits inside the center of a 1967 rambler. The sweep condemned the original clay basement liner because it has one small crack going down the liner. He didn't recommend using our basement fireplace anymore. So we haven't.

I bought a Summer's Heat Englander stove when it was on clearance, model 50-SFP12LC. I intend to use it with shortened legs as a "poor mans insert" it should slide in nicely into the old masonry fireplace opening.

The bad part is the clay liner ID is 6" x 10" with a slight jog above the smokeshelf. So a 6" flex liner is out. I did find a ovalized liner kit from Rockford chimney supply. They said I need the 5" x 8.15" size to match the 6" round. That seems big but maybe its not. I was wondering if anyone on this site uses an oval liner on their 6" stove and if so what size and does it draft well? Mine would be about 24' long.

The oval liner is quite expensive compared to 6" round so our stove has been sitting unused for many months due to no funds for the liner. I'm getting close to having the $$ to buy the liner soon and hope to get it installed and the stove hooked up before fall this year.

I'm totally new to stoves-I've been burning for years in both our fireplaces so this will be a new experience to look forward to.

 

[summit]

oval liner should work well. sometimes you can oval a 6" liner and get the same result for less (ovalizing a 6" round is highly scientific; take a piece of firewood and lay out liner on the lawn, then tap - tap the liner oval all the way down.. but not too much; just enough to slide down the tile!) we've done this before int he old days, and have never noticed any negative impacts, but the caveat here is you can squash it too much, so be careful

 

[Captain Hornet]

Just went through the very same thing with my liner stove. I had a Fisher fireplace insert that slid in the old fireplace. The only problem was that it was a slammer installation with no connection to the chimney. I also had the 6by9 old tile liner. My stove did not have a flue coller on it so I took the whole stove out and carried it to a welding shop. The vent hole was seven inch so I ordered a seven inch liner that had been ovalized to 5by8. The whole thing came in a box that was 7by10 but 16 foot long. Was shipped UPS freight and I had to pick it up in my pickup. I had a 8 inch pipe coller welded on the stove because there is no such thing as a seven inch thick wall pipe. The liner was easy to beat round where it hooks to the stove but I had to have a connector that hooks to the flex pipe and a adapter to go from eight to seven inch. I cleaned out the old chimney and smoke shelf and got nine five gal pails of creosote out. Than took a air hammer and remover the damper and opened up the neck for pipe clearance. Whole thing went together easy over several weekends. Also installed a metal blockoff plate and packed all of the old open areas in the old smoke shelf and neck with fiberglass. I also had a air plenum welded onto the air jacket of the Fisher with a big Stanley fan. So I have changed a fireplace insert into a air tight free standing stove with blower. I know the Fisher is old and not epa approved but I liked it because it's heavy welded steel with a huge firebox, it can take splits and logs 28 inches long. The stainless flex liner, top covers, and both adapters with shipping came to $800. All of it came from Chimney Liner Depot in Madison TWP, Pa. 1-800-943-1515. They were friendly and helpfull,easy to deal with and they shipped right away. I would use them again. I have had a couple of test fires and this stove is going to be super now and SAFE. I used to have two or three chimney fires every season but I know I wouldn't be saving any money if I burnt the house down. Hope this helps, Captain Hornet.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

sounds like you could easily ovalize std 6" liner to fit. we do it all the time for tight fits. 2x6's and huge c clamps

ovalized pipe drafts nearly as well as round, your liner doesn't need much ovalizing sounds like...

 

[BrotherBart]

Rolling a piece of PVC pipe over it does a good ovalizing job too.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

Rolling a piece of PVC pipe over it does a good ovalizing job too.

please explain, new trick to me....

 

[BrotherBart]

Rolling a piece of PVC pipe over it does a good ovalizing job too.

please explain, new trick to me....

Ya just lay the liner on a flat surface like a driveway, or the lawn for that matter, and apply pressure to the the PVC pipe as you roll it it from where the oval should end toward the end of the liner. It gives you a lot of control over the process and tends to keep the sides of the oval rounder than any other way I have tried.

Pretty much the way the professional ovaling machines work except they have a roller on top and bottom and ya just feed the liner through it.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

Rolling a piece of PVC pipe over it does a good ovalizing job too.

please explain, new trick to me....

Ya just lay the liner on a flat surface like a driveway, or the lawn for that matter, and apply pressure to the the PVC pipe as you roll it it from where the oval should end toward the end of the liner. It gives you a lot of control over the process and tends to keep the sides of the oval rounder than any other way I have tried.

Pretty much the way the professional ovaling machines work except they have a roller on top and bottom and ya just feed the liner through it.

Thanks!
i'll pass that one on to my installers

 

[MNtreewood]

Wow this is great info! I had no idea you could ovalize the round flex yourself. The supplier made the stuff sound like it was lightweight and bulky but stiff and not the most flexible.

A few more questions about this-when you ovalize the pipe yourself then slide it down the clay liner how easy is it to make the ends go back to the 6" round to make your connections?

Also does the chimney cap clamp to the flex liner above the cap? I'm guessing it does-since you need to immediately oval it for the clay liner beneath the cap. It's hard to tell from vendor websites how the flex connection works at the cap/cover on top?

Thanks to all-the input is great.

 

[BrotherBart]

To round it back out you just smack it hard between your hands on the wide sides of the oval a few time. Just like you used to be able to box a kids ears back before Child Protective Services came along. :coolsmirk:

 

[jtp10181]

The one thing we have run into problems with on those 6x10 ID clay flues is yeah you can ovalize the liner and make it fit down.... but can you wrap insulation on it and still have it fit? Thats a bit of a trick. That's why we stick to the rigid oval duraliner (double wall with built in insulation) for the oval flues.

 

[BrotherBart]

The one thing we have run into problems with on those 6x10 ID clay flues is yeah you can ovalize the liner and make it fit down.... but can you wrap insulation on it and still have it fit? Thats a bit of a trick. That's why we stick to the rigid oval duraliner (double wall with built in insulation) for the oval flues.

Smart way to do it. Even if the insulation wrapped stuff finally makes it down a lot of tearing of the insulation happens on the way.

A much more peaceful easy feeling burning into two layers of steel with insulation between them than the average flex liner. And the stuff does not "snake" like flex in the flue.

 

[MNtreewood]

Good point about the insulation. Its a gamble I'm sure maintaing its integrity to the bottom.

With our old clay liner and burning wood in the fireplace we would have about a 1/4" thickness of the flaky black pellets stuck to the clay in the spring after burning from fall to spring, the densest portion was always the last 3-4 feet of chimney at the top, the part that was above the roof line. At least it always cleaned out nice. If there is any spot that I want the insulation to stay intact on the new liner it would be in that region.

 

[BrotherBart]

The problem you have is the condemnation of the existing chimney. That means it has to be lined with insulated liner top to bottom. Either solid or wrapped flex.

If you only had that much accumulation before, you will have just a little dust with a liner. I know. Been there, done that and would never burn into a masonry chimney again with out a liner.

 

[MNtreewood]

Just an update... I ended up calling around and FlexKing would ovalize the 6" flex into the dimensions that would still give me some room after wrapping the 1/2" foil insulation around for just a little bit more than the round liner cost. Plus they will make the top cap sized to fit over my clay liner. Its supposed to arrive next week.

I can't wait to get this stove hooked up. Its been sitting around for so long it was more like an extra piece of furniture to run into in the basement. Interesting to see how it will compare this winter after just burning in the fireplace all these years.

Thanks for all your input everybody-I'm sure I'll have more questions later on.

 

[BuckeyeWilly]

MNtreewood, how did you make out with your liner? I'm in the same situation as you with a clay liner that has inside dimensions of 6-1/2 x 10-1/4.

 

[MNtreewood]

Buckeye, The oval liner arrived just like I wanted, but the 25' box it came in was torn to shreds! The liner held up fine thankfully and the insert connector stayed attached during its travel. It can't be coiled so it gets shipped straight just like it likes to stay.

It took me and a helper about 6 hours just to get it insulated and pushed down the chimney. Not sure if that's average or not? The first 15-20' is a straight shot and that went pretty fast it was the last bend and into the smoke shelf that was the PITA. My helper curled up in the fireplace with some 1x3's of various lengths and an assortment of hooks and bent over nails to coax the liner down. It took a long time at and inch per pull but we got it. I cut a plywood oval and screwed it to the liner with an eye hook and that helped until the bend got to severe for the rope to do any good. The oval came down with the long dimension wanting to go through the narrow 5.5" damper and the oval liner is not very flexible so you can't twist it 90 degrees to fit through. I ended up cutting the back of damper and it just slid through.

The next day we pushed the stove in only to find it wouldn't connect to the liner-couldn't push it far enough back, stove was hitting the firebricks in back(bricks arched forward as they went up). Had an adjustable elbow on hand but it's height was so darn tall I'd have to cut the liner real high and making a good tight connection to the liner seemed questionable. So we called it quits and I just let the options gell in my head for a while.

I finally just decided to start pulling out firebricks under the cut damper. They came out quit easy-the mortar was shot. The are very thick compared to the bricks in the stove. I was able to gain a few more inches of room. Behind the firebricks is an 8" thick block wall. I now have more than enough room to hook the stove up. The crummy part is that the stove will sit completely inside the old fireplace, so I don't know how much heat I will get out of it? I haven't put the stove back in yet because I'm filling the side walls of firebricks back in with the ones I took out of the back. It looked ugly and unfinished to leave the sides with a 4" gap in the back on each side. I've got one side left to mortar and then the stove can go back and the roof cap can go on. Had I know the bricks would need to come out it would of made a lot more room for coaxing that liner down. My helper is skinny and might of been able to stand up in their now. I also will finish cutting the damper back to each side when I'm done with the firebricks.

I love the roof cap they gave me, it fits my clay tile nice and the cover is hinged so I can just take the one hex bolt out and swing it over to run a brush down for sweeping. I ordered it over the phone so I had no idea what I was going to get other than by description. I had seen caps on other websites that were different but I like looks and function this one.

 

[BuckeyeWilly]

Ok, Mntreewood, I called and order mine. George said I should have it by next monday. I'll let you know how mine goes.

 

[MNtreewood]

Sounds good. Its not terrible work just slow paced if you don't have a straight clay liner the whole way down. As much cussing as we did the end result is hopefully a liner that will be in there for many years to come.

 

[jtp10181]

Those flues where the oval goes the opposite way as the damper are the worst to try and get liners down, especially if they have a good bend in them. Nice work.

My Pro crew can usually be in an out in a few hours for a wood insert, 6 hrs is not too bad doing it the first time with no training.