Overdraft

[hamsey]

Mopar, Interesting thought. Spoke to Hearthstone about it and was told no. We have in the past made a tunnel so the air could reach the back. We got secondaries sooner if I remember correctly but in the end same outcome.

Was told to make the reducing cap (6" to 5") removable in case some issues arises. Attached is a photo that shows what happens. This is after about 45 minutes to an hour. If I do not open up the air I get big chucks when I break this apart. Maybe this is how it is suppose to burn. Do not think so from what I was told.

How do I tell if I have a bad MM. Going to check another that I have at room temperature (60*).

My head hurts but for now I will do what the manufacture recommends.

 

[edyit]

When the house gets above 65 she starts to complain that it is too warm.

you're a lucky man....

about the moisture meter though I have a General Meter from Lowes, the cover for it has 2 holes in it that simulate a set moisture %, check your manual (if you still have it) or google it and see if there is an online version in a PDF.

 

[hamsey]

First photo shows the secondaries taken @ 12:21
Second photo shows coaling taken @ 3:32 not putting out much heat
Third photo is what happens when I knock down 2nd photo. They are beginning to glow but as soon as I close the door they start going black again. Soapstone pieces are pretty clean in photo 2 but go black in photo 3.

Is this how it's suppose to be?

 

[hamsey]

edyit,

She is a nurse ans says hospitals are cool for a reason. After last winter I am the one complaining about how cold it is. Use to do winter camping and never thought I would complain about it being 60* I have the same MM. Did not see that before. Will check it out tonight. Thanks for the tip.

 

[mopar440_6]

Quick check for the moisture meter is to lay the pins on the palm of your hand. It should read somewhere around 32-35%. All of those pictures look relatively normal to me. But even with the primary control completely closed on my NC-30 the coals right in front of the "doghouse" air inlet thing are glowing white. If you open the primary all the way when its running like the 3rd photo shows do those coals burn hotter?

 

[edyit]

if you have the same meter the manual says it should read around 18% on the test holes in the cap

 

[hamsey]

If you open the primary all the way when its running like the 3rd photo shows do those coals burn hotter?

That is open all the way. Do you get much heat when it is at this stage?

When I talked to the manufacturer and explained what is happening he said without hesitation that it is overdraft. If this is how it is the Jotul burned completely different. Coals would glow red until they were ash. When I cleaned the Jotul it was mostly ash, when I clean the clyde it is mostly charcoal.

 

[mopar440_6]

That is open all the way. Do you get much heat when it is at this stage?

When I talked to the manufacturer and explained what is happening he said without hesitation that it is overdraft. If this is how it is the Jotul burned completely different. Coals would glow red until they were ash. When I cleaned the Jotul it was mostly ash, when I clean the clyde it is mostly charcoal.

No, the 30 makes the most heat when the secondaries are lit. Once everything turns to coals it will coast for a while in the 200-300*F range but it will burn a trench through the coals from front to back and start working towards the sides.

 

[hamsey]

Not sure if we have the same meter. I have the MMD4E and just read the manual but does not mention anything about the cap test. Will check my hand though. I usually just start raking the coals forward so I can make room to add more splits so am not sure about it going to the back and sides. Maybe I will see what happens this weekend when it warms up a bit.

 

[edyit]

Yup same model, on the cap near the middle of 1 side or the other i have 2 small holes that the metal prongs from the meter slide into.

in my manual it is on page 6 "Checking Calibration"

 

[Knots]

I definitely have an overdraft situation. Straight-up 26' of 6" double-wall.

When I'm closing the door and it gets near the stove, the draft sucks it closed. I get a whistle through the primary air when it is at it's lowest setting. I closed my 4" secondary slot with aluminum tape so that there's only 1/8" left. I run with the flue damper closed.

Once it gets near 500, the stove will run hard with everything at the minimum.

I sometimes end up with a bunch of red coals, but not a charcoal situation. I open the primary up and the pile of coals keeps the stove at 400 or more for another hour.

 

[hamsey]

That is not the meter I have. No calibration on the lid or mention of it in the manual. When I checked my palm it read 23.5 so that could be a problem. Will order a new MM. Dealer is talking to Hearthstone and have not heard back. At the end of the day I still have an overdraft issue and that meter does have a calibration button.

Unfortunately I have no clue where my secondary air inlet is located. If anyone can point it out I would appreciate it. My problem is the wife. She is not going to fuss with the stove. When I got home last PM she had it going for a couple of hours with no increase in temperature. She is a set and forget. She will rake the coals forward on a reload but that is about it and that is all she had to do with the last stove. I am trying to get as close to that as possible. When I took over I had to open up the air almost all the way to excite the charcoal and burn it down. I only added 2 2" splits (one that I split and tested 19.3 MC but based on the above that number is not to be trusted). Burned down the bed until there was a tiny bit left and stuffed it with splits at 10 by 3 it was done. Opened up the air full but still had charcoal in the AM. Raked those up to the doghouse, they started glowing and will see what is left when I get home after work.

I do bang the splits together and get a nice hollow sound. Some I get a thud and I know those are not ready. Combination of wood and draft. But I do have a question about the wood. With it being above 20% MC wouldn't that just effect how long it takes to catch and the heat output? By the time it reaches the coaling stage why would it not burn down to ash? Just trying to understand. I know when I have an outdoor fire and throw in splits that have been exposed to rain/snow and come back the next day there is just ash. Even with me opening the air full there was still charcoal after and hour or so. Again just trying to understand.

 

[DougA]

I definitely have an overdraft situation. Straight-up 26' of 6" double-wall. When I'm closing the door and it gets near the stove, the draft sucks it closed.

I don't own a Jotul but on my stoves, with a good fire burning, the fire will always suck the door shut if you close it most of the way. I know other people on this forum that have the same thing. AFAIK, that is NORMAL.

Unfortunately I have no clue where my secondary air inlet is located. If anyone can point it out I would appreciate it.

As I posted to you before, if your stove is like mine, there is NO secondary inlet.

I do bang the splits together and get a nice hollow sound. Some I get a thud and I know those are not ready.

I didn't get a reply about the comment I made about the wood. A nice hollow sound seems like the wood may be spunky.

Just trying to understand. I know when I have an outdoor fire and throw in splits that have been exposed to rain/snow and come back the next day there is just ash. Even with me opening the air full there was still charcoal after and hour or so. Again just trying to understand.

Two different scenarios. An open fire with lots of oxygen and a day later - compare that to a sealed box with limited air supply a few hours later. What is there to understand? Lots of posts about excess coaling from many, many different stoves lately on this forum. If it is that big a deal, open the door a crack, open the air control all the way and they will turn to ash within a day. On my 2 stoves, it's been the same. What most of us do is just use those coals to get the next load going but if you aren't loading again, it really should not be a big deal.

See my post on overfiring last night. It was MY FAULT.

 

[hamsey]

I didn't get a reply about the comment I made about the wood. A nice hollow sound seems like the wood may be spunky.

Not sure what spunky means. This wood is ash and has some heft to it. I did have a bunch of wood that weighted next to nothing and burned that in the shoulder season if that is what spunky is. I thought it is called punky. Had lots of that from some wood i bought.

I do try to burn 24/7 but with this below average cold we are having at the moment there is no way the stove can keep up so I only burn nights and weekends when it is below 20*. I would be wasting wood with the morning fires.

 

[velvetfoot]

I only burn nights and weekends when it is below 20*. I would be wasting wood with the morning fires.

I don't understand. Why would it be wasted? It'd be supplemental, not replacement.

 

[mstoelton]

You may have an overdraft but that should not cause the charcoaling you are seeing. Overdraft would more likely cause excessive heat, runaway, and short burn times.

I think you have a wood issue. either species, or moisture issue or maybe both.

Can you get any known to be dry wood to test?

 

[hamsey]

I don't understand. Why would it be wasted? It'd be supplemental, not replacement.

It would not budge the thermostat. I know Sophie wanted one this AM. She was on her bed by the stove waiting. With my coal bed I have plenty to get a fire going ofter work and the way this winter has been going in the Northeast I do not want to run out of my somewhat dry wood. Only other wood I have was c/s/s Oct./Nov 2014 so that is not going to burn.

 

[DougA]

We call it spunky but lots of people call it punky -same thing. I personally find my ash burns much faster than any other hardwood I have. Not sure why.

 

[hamsey]

How it was explained to me was the short burn times and that after the off gassing stage the chimney is still pulling hard but the wood has nothing to give and that creates an issue with this stove and installation. I talked to Hearthstone about a week after I got the stove and immediately was told I have overdraft. Shrugged it off. Been trying all different things and decided to call again and was told the exact same thing. He explained it better I just do not remember. As far as excessive heat that could explain why we are getting more heat out of this stove. I was told that it would not make a difference going from the Rockland to the Clydesdale because they are similar size stoves. My wife commented about the heat output of the Clydesdale.

I am glad about the runaway not being an issue(knock on wood). That was a concern every time we reloaded the Rockland.

 

[hamsey]

First time burning ash so I do not know what to expect.

Can anyone tell me or point me to drying my wood with the oven. I need to take the wood out of the equation. I want to dry it in the oven. Not sure how to go about it but do not want to risk buying the gas/grocery wood. Just going to grab a bunch of pieces and bake it then burn it and see if it makes a difference.

 

[DougA]

I would not put wood in a gas oven that is turned on but I honestly can't explain a valid reason if the heat is at 200. To be safe, why don't you put some into the oven after the oven has been used for baking/roasting, etc. It will still be hot enough after it is turned off. Leave the wood in overnight and then split it and measure it. I have no idea how long it would take to dry enough and that will depend a lot upon the species and size.

The best advice I can give you is to shout out to hearth.com readers who live near you that have a lot of experience. Buy them a coffee (or a beer) and have them check your wood and your stove. There has to be lots of people in CT near you with vast experience. You really deserve proper answers and none of us on the forum or Ray on the phone can see exactly what is going on in your house.

I'd do it myself if you let me drive away in the BX2350.

 

[hamsey]

Going to take you a long time to get back home on the 23. Getting a new MM see how mine is way off. Got an electric oven at work I might use so I can check on it during the day. Little off topic but the 2350 cannot be much different from the 2200. Do you have a cab and snow blower on that thing?

 

[hamsey]

This is what my MM looks like.

 

[DougA]

Little off topic but the 2350 cannot be much different from the 2200. Do you have a cab and snow blower on that thing?

No, I actually drove to Kentucky to buy it used on ebay. I'm super cheap - frugal. Around here, the used ones are selling for what they had paid new - just crazy. The 2350 is the same as the 2200, just newer with a few extra gadgets. I don't have separate hydraulic outlets for a splitter or FEL on mine. I've got an old 6' blade on the back to do an 850' driveway. I really want a B series TLB w/MMM at least 35 horse. I need 35 to run a half decent chipper off the back. Right now I have to rent one to get rid of all the brush, my 8hp chipper is junk. This is all Kubota speak for those who don't understand.

 

[edyit]

odd hamsey mine says mmd4e right on it but is nothing like the one you pictured and when i google the manual for it it isnt the one i have either, just bought mine around christmas this year so dunno if yours is the new and improved version or if mine is?