Pacific Energy Super Insert Outside Air

[sigepsb]

I recently purchased a Pacific Energy Super insert and picked it up the other day. I specifically purchased PE due to its outside air capability. I have two Napoleon stoves at our cabin that have outside air and I like the way it works. Also, the house the PE is going into has a very large professional-style range hood nearby that I would worry about causing negative pressure.

The PE manual, which I downloaded and reviewed prior to purchase, states that the ash dump should be used to supply outside air and the surround should be sealed to the front of the fireplace. I called PE to see if the surround should be sealed with insulation or with high-temp silicone. PE stated it should be silicone to ensure it is absolutely air tight and air is not pulled from inside the house. So, it seems they intend for the stove to truly use outside air from the literature and phone conversation, and be airtight otherwise.

I now have the stove in my possession and looked at the back where it takes in outside air. Right next to the OA inlet are huge openings in the outside shell. It appears the double-walled area in which the blower circulates the air around the sides and back of stove is not in any way sealed or even close to air tight. It has just as much access to the outside air as the air inlet for the stove. Why is sealing the surround so tightly such a concern if the stove can just pull air from inside the house through the blower housing? Won't this let cold air come into the house when the stove is off and mix cold outside air with the heated blower air when its on?

It looks like the small seams in the shell could be sealed with flu tape, but the opening in the back is so ill fitting, that it looks like the shell would have to be completely and precisely refabricated to have any chance of making the stove remotely airtight from the outside. Am I missing something? I'll try call PE Monday, but so far I feel a bit ripped off and think their literature was misleading. Thanks. (see photo link below)

(broken link removed to https://picasaweb.google.com/102856565833202429094/PacificEnergy?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPzWk6y8v4qNcg&feat=directlink)

 

[begreen]

I think your observation is correct. From what I have seen PE stoves dump their outside air in the general vicinity of the primary/secondary air intakes. These intakes are separate and not off a common manifold that an OAK could tightly seal to. The advantage is that the stove is an easier breather with less routing of the intake air though long manifolds. That helps notably with shorter chimney setups and during milder weather burning. Sealing the surround should keep the outside air mostly confined to the stove. You've picked a good stove. Feed it dry wood and I think you will be very happy with it's performance.

 

[sigepsb]

Thanks, I'll give it a try as per their instructions. If I get too much of a draft when not in use, I'll pull it back out, seal the firebox up, and run it off inside air. I guess the lesson is there's no substitute for a free-standing wood stove, but it just wouldn't have worked in this application. Great site, wish I had found this place years ago.

 

[begreen]

Take some pictures when it's burning. We love shots of a nice fire.

 

[sigepsb]

Well, I unfortunately found out the answer to my question the hard way. It's not even that cold here yet and you can definitely feel some cold air creeping into the house from the stove in the morning, after the install. We have a lot of no-burn days here and this is going to be undesirable when the stove is off.

The installer used insulation around the surround and I just added some along the bottom where I felt the draft and smelled a faint creosote odor. The installer cleaned the chimney, but there's still a faint smell in the firebox. (The previous owner did not have it cleaned before installing a gas insert) As I was going around trying to seal up the draft, I took the blower door off and realized there is absolutely no way to make this thing even close to airtight. I added pictures to the the album linked above, but essentially, you can reach right back into the firebox from the blower compartment. (broken link removed to https://picasaweb.google.com/102856565833202429094/PacificEnergy?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPzWk6y8v4qNcg&feat=directlink)

I read the manual before purchase and called PE before to research this prior to install. PE tech support even told me not to use insulation on the surround as it wasn't airtight enough, but to use high-temp silicone. They stated the stove would still burn inside air otherwise. Well, that's just ridiculous after seeing the stove installed. It can get air from numerous other points than the surround, so there's certainly no point in getting the surround absolutely airtight.

I'm sure the insert performs very well based on all the reviews here, but the outside air feature seems like a flop. Sure, it burns some outside air, but not much better than if you just opened a nearby window. And, at least you could close that window later, this is open all the time. I love the outside air feature on my two Napoleon stoves. It's piped into the pedestal and then up into the stove. No cold drafts there. Perhaps we will throw a blanket over it when not in use and my neighbor can help me pull it back out in the spring and seal the ash dump up. I just don't have time now. Bummer, since I just paid someone $925 to install it though. Could those real big holes that lead from the blower compartment into the firebox be sealed with flu tape to art least slow the airflow down?

 

[Grisu]

Not sure if it is fair to compare an OAK at a stove with one at an insert. To replicate a stove OAK you would need to drill a hole in the fireplace and run a duct from the outside and directly connect it to the insert.

Is your house that airtight that you require an OAK? Have you tried to close the ash dump and run the insert just with room air? The PE Super is usually a very easy breather and could be working well even without an OAK.

 

[sigepsb]

No, I gotcha. I didn't think it would be as airtight as a freestanding wood stove, but based on the manual and my call to PE I thought it would reasonably weatherproof the house from the ash dump/outside air.

I will have to seal up the ash dump at some point, and burn inside air, but the only way to get to it now will be to remove the insert. My house is not all that tight, but this will only heat a small portion of the house's 3200sq.ft., so I will have to run the furnace zone for the opposite side of the house. Also, I have a very large range hood. I didn't want them to compete for air. Once I can get it sealed up, I'll just open a window if there's a problem. I thought this would be a more efficient solution- I was wrong. I'm just surprised no one at the manufacturer realized that this was going to be an issue.

Anyone see a problem with sealing those real large holes pictured behind the blower compartment with 600 degree flu tape, just to slow the draft down a bit more? They don't appear to have any function. The blower air goes through other channels inside the shell- they just seem to be there.

I will say this about outside air, as I see there's a divide on here whether or not to use it. Obviously, it didn't work in this case, but on my freestanding stoves (at vacation house) with a proper design, I've been very happy. If you put your hand over the OA pipe outside when the stove is running, it's really surprising how much cold air it pulls that would otherwise be getting pulled through cracks into the living area.

I thought I researched this stove very well on here beforehand, but it looks like I actually missed a post with someone that had the same problem with a Summit. Now knowing what to look for, I unfortunately found this: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...he-people-at-pacific-energy.56006/#post-56006