Pacific Energy T5 newb excess smoke

[Thegriz]

Hey everyone! Love this site! I’ve spent hours reading over the years and it’s time for my first post.

I just purchased a 2009 Alderlea t5. I’ve been burning wood for a long time and recently upgraded from a cheap E/W epa stove to the T5

When I’m getting the fire going on reloads I seem to get a lot of smoke out of the chimney for the first 1.5-2 hours. I am following the suggestions to cut primary air gradually and I am seeing secondary burn but probably not as much as I should. Primary is cut over 30 minimum.

Single wall pipe with magnetic thermometer will rise to 800 no problem. Stove top temps cruise at 650-700 and pipe temp will settle around 450. But I still have a solid plume of smoke out the chimney.

Wood is well seasoned. Mixed hardwood C/S for 2-3 years then moved into wood shed. Moisture meter reading 18-20% on fresh splits.

Burns seem to last quite well. I still have plenty of coals to restart after 12 hours on full loads.

It seems like I’m not getting as strong of secondary burn as I should. I’m willing to spend some money on the stove but wondering where I should start to improve secondary burn. Clean secondary supply tube? New insulation blankets? New door gasket?

Chimney is an interior brick chimney with clay liner. Draft is good and reliable. A cold chimney will suck a sheet of paper and hold it across the flue pipe when the stove is disconnected.

 

[Thegriz]

Currently it -15C outside here. Almost no wind. Loaded stove an hour ago. Stove top is almost 750F and single wall pipe is 550F about 24” about the stove.

I have some weak secondaries in the back of the stove but not much towards the front. This picture shows what my chimney looks like. Too grey to be steam IMO.

 

[TomMcDonald]

I would start with the secondary supply tube. You could rig up a narrow hose connected to a vacuum and stick it down there with the baffle removed. I considered doing this on mine but haven't got around to it yet.

 

[moresnow]

What are the inside dimensions of the clay liner? What is the liner length from thimble to top? Is the clean out door sealed well?
How far down is your setting for the long cruise? Just a few general questions to understand your setup. Cool stove!

 

[EbS-P]

I would start with the secondary supply tube. You could rig up a narrow hose connected to a vacuum and stick it down there with the baffle removed. I considered doing this on mine but haven't got around to it yet.

This^^^ get a new gasket to replace the old one after you clean it out.

Your picture looked like a hot burn but not enough secondary flame.

 

[Thegriz]

What are the inside dimensions of the clay liner? What is the liner length from thimble to top? Is the clean out door sealed well?
How far down is your setting for the long cruise? Just a few general questions to understand your setup. Cool stove!

I believe the clay liner is 7” square. Too much snow and ice on the roof this time of year to confirm. It might be smaller but definitely not bigger.

I have 5.5’ of single wall above the stove including 2x45 to the chimney connection. From there it’s about 12’ of interior clay lined chimney to the roofline. About 5’ above the roof. Clean out could maybe be sealed better. I don’t think this is a lack of draft. This chimney drafts even when it’s stone cold.

For the long cruise the draft is closed as far as it will go. I close the draft slowly. I’ve done it over 30 minutes or as long as 60 minutes. Stove top cruises at 650-700 and burns are plenty long. There is a plenty of coals to relight after 12 hours.

I tried leaving the draft open about 10% last night and the stove top got to 900 so I clamped her down. Still had what looked like smoke out of the chimney! This was probably about 1.5-2 hours after reload.

I don’t think the wood is a problem. Everything tests at 20% on fresh splits. I read an info post on here that suggests that converts to 16.5% wet density. So it’s got to be in the right range. Cut split and stacked 2-3 years. Splits light quickly and stove top gets up to 650 in under 30 minutes

 

[EatenByLimestone]

When you measure the water content, is the split room temp and are you splitting it and measuring in the middle of the fresh face?

Try turning the primary down faster so the secondary feeds all the air.

 

[Thegriz]

When you measure the water content, is the split room temp and are you splitting it and measuring in the middle of the fresh face?

Try turning the primary down faster so the secondary feeds all the air.

Checking moisture content on fresh splits. My meter has different settings for different types of wood so I imagine it’s pretty accurate. Amazing the change in reading if I use the wrong setting. Makes me wonder how meters with only one setting can be accurate?

Cleaned the stove out today. No ash down the secondary tube. Baffle gasket was basically non existent so I threw a new one in.

I hate changing more than one variable at once but I noticed some creosote along the bottom gasket mating surface on the face of the firebox. Surprising because it passes the dollar bill test with a strip of news paper and the old gasket appeared to be OEM. Regardless, she’s got a new door gasket now too.

Just waiting for the adhesive to cure so I can fire it back up! Night time temps are between -15 to -20C right now (5 to -5 F) so I hate running the propane furnace!

 

[Woody Stover]

2009 Alderlea t5... get a lot of smoke out of the chimney for the first 1.5-2 hours.,,,New insulation blankets?

get a new gasket to replace the old one after you clean it out.

My meter has different settings for different types of wood so I imagine it’s pretty accurate. Amazing the change in reading if I use the wrong setting. Makes me wonder how meters with only one setting can be accurate?
she’s got a new door gasket now too.
Just waiting for the adhesive to cure so I can fire it back up!

Did you put in a stock secondary tube-to-baffle gasket? They seem kinda flimsy to me. I've seen a little downward bowing in the bottom of the stainless baffle in my SIL's 2019 T5. I made my own gasket for that juncture out of some flat gasket. You may have seen in some of the T5/Super threads where other guys came up with that idea. That's gotta be sealing better than the stock gasket I think, and getting more air to the baffle holes toward the front of the box.
The other thing you might check is the insulation along the sides of the baffle, from front to back. If those aren't sealing well, the smoke can be escaping around the baffle further back, instead of being routed all the way to the front, under the baffle and past the holes, where the smoke can be burned. I'm assuming that your older T5 similar insulation there, to what the 2019 has..
Looking forward to hear what the results are from what you've done so far, when you fire it back up! 🤞
Interesting about the meter differences between the wood settings; I figured that difference would be small, maybe a couple percent at the most. Regardless, it sounds to me like your wood must be dry..

 

[begreen]

Single wall pipe with magnetic thermometer will rise to 800 no problem

If this is the surface temp reading on the single wall, that is crazy hot. If the thermometer was accurate the stove pipe would be glowing.

30% open is too much for a fully engaged fire. The air control is not linear. Most of the final action occurs in the last 10-20% of travel. The draft is strong, so the air can be closed all the way if need be. You want to get the surface temp on the single-wall down to about 300-350º when the stove is cruising. First, verify that the thermometer is accurate. You will find that with less primary air, the secondary combustion will be stronger. Typically these stoves run with the air 15% to 0% open when cruising.

With a strong draft, there are two options: reduce the air feeding the fire, or restrict the exhaust flow. With very strong draft it sometimes takes a combo of both. Fortunately, on this stove, both options are fairly easy. The boost air port can be closed off without ill effect. And a key damper can be added to the stove pipe.

 

[Thegriz]

If this is the surface temp reading on the single wall, that is crazy hot. If the thermometer was accurate the stove pipe would be glowing.

30% open is too much for a fully engaged fire. The air control is not linear. Most of the final action occurs in the last 10-20% of travel. The draft is strong, so the air can be closed all the way if need be. You want to get the surface temp on the single-wall down to about 300-350º when the stove is cruising. First, verify that the thermometer is accurate. You will find that with less primary air, the secondary combustion will be stronger. Typically these stoves run with the air 15% to 0% open when cruising.

With a strong draft, there are two options: reduce the air feeding the fire, or restrict the exhaust flow. With very strong draft it sometimes takes a combo of both. Fortunately, on this stove, both options are fairly easy. The boost air port can be closed off without ill effect. And a key damper can be added to the stove pipe.

I always run my long cruises with the damper closed all the way. Yesterday I pulled it just slightly off closed to see if it would reduce smoke out the chimney. Not 30%. Maybe 1/4 or 1/2” back from closed.

The 800 surface temp was stove top. Pipe temp was between 500-600.

Usually with the stove cruising it’s 650-700 stove top and like 450 pipe. My concern is that even with these temps I’m getting nice long burns but weak secondaries and smoke out the chimney.

Seems to be getting the right amount of air, maybe just the wrong primary/secondary balance for my house.

If the new baffle gasket and door gasket don’t improve things I will start modding to cut primary air.

 

[begreen]

The 800 surface temp was stove top. Pipe temp was between 500-600.

It's really critical to call out correctly. 5-600 on the stovepipe is still too hot, but much better. Try blocking off the boost air. It is simple and quickly reversible.

STT = stovetop temp, SPS = stovepipe single (or surface), SPP = stovepipe probe

 

[Woody Stover]

If this is the surface temp reading on the single wall, that is crazy hot .... You will find that with less primary air, the secondary combustion will be stronger.

Pipe temp was between 500-600....If the new baffle gasket and door gasket don’t improve things I will start modding to cut primary air.

I'm guessing his vintage has the same primary/secondary link as ours, using the steel rod so that as the primary is cut, so is the secondary. In that case, blocking the boost air hole would appear the only way of altering the proportion of the two...other than separating the air controls into two separate rods, which I have considered. Probably too nerdy for my SIL to deal with though, so I'll leave it as is. 😏

 

[begreen]

The 800 surface temp was stove top. Pipe temp was between 500-600.

BTW - 800º STT is pushing overfire temp. It is exceptionally hot. I would not take the SST over 750º. As Scotty would put it -Cap'n she's giving it all she's got.

 

[Woody Stover]

As Scotty would put it -Cap'n she's giving it all she's got.

"She con't take much more o' this!"

 

[Thegriz]

BTW - 800º STT is pushing overfire temp. It is exceptionally hot. I would not take the SST over 750º. As Scotty would put it -Cap'n she's giving it all she's got.

I agree! That was way too hot. The baffle was looking pretty cherry! Luckily I didn’t warp it.

However, I think my initial question is getting lost in the weeds here.

Full load of wood. Damper completely closed. Stove will cruise with STT 650-700 and SPS 450. These temps are a little high but my question is, why do I still have weak secondaries and smoke out the chimney?

 

[TomMcDonald]

How did you verify there was no ash or creosote down the secondary tube?

 

[Woody Stover]

I think my initial question is getting lost in the weeds here....Stove will cruise with STT 650-700 and SPS 450. These temps are a little high but my question is, why do I still have weak secondaries and smoke out the chimney?

Did you check the items I mentioned above, and begreen's suggestion to block the boost air or install a flue damper? 450 on a connector pipe (single-wall) is high, depending where the meter is. My SIL's T5, surface meter about 12" above the flue exit, runs about 300-350, lazy flame coming off the wood, decent secondary burn.

 

[Thegriz]

How did you verify there was no ash or creosote down the secondary tube?

I stuck a piece of 1/2” tubing connected to a shop vac down the tube. Nothing came out of it.

 

[Thegriz]

Did you check the items I mentioned above, and begreen's suggestion to block the boost air or install a flue damper? 450 on a connector pipe (single-wall) is high, depending where the meter is. My SIL's T5, surface meter about 12" above the flue exit, runs about 300-350, lazy flame coming off the wood, decent secondary burn.

Yes it’s got a new stock gasket. Baffle is nice and flat. I don’t want to put too thick of a gasket in there. This could lift the baffle off the back rail and create a massive air leak.

I checked the baffle blankets as good as I could. They seem to be ok. They are well down into the brick rails and against the baffle. I was going to buy new ones but for some reason you can’t buy the side blankets separately and my dealer wants $140 for side and top blankets. I might buy the summit side blankets which are $40 and cut them down to fit if needed. Will be over a week for them to get the blankets.

I think I will have to try blocking the boost air. But that doesn’t make sense to me. SPS is cruising at 350 @24” above the stove and STT is 600. I’m running two loads a day and not overheating the house. Maybe I’m being too picky???

 

[Woody Stover]

Yes it’s got a new stock gasket. Baffle is nice and flat. I don’t want to put too thick of a gasket in there. This could lift the baffle off the back rail and create a massive air leak.

I checked the baffle blankets as good as I could. They seem to be ok. They are well down into the brick rails and against the baffle. I was going to buy new ones but for some reason you can’t buy the side blankets separately and my dealer wants $140 for side and top blankets. I might buy the summit side blankets which are $40 and cut them down to fit if needed. Will be over a week for them to get the blankets.

I think I will have to try blocking the boost air. But that doesn’t make sense to me. SPS is cruising at 350 @24” above the stove and STT is 600. I’m running two loads a day and not overheating the house. Maybe I’m being too picky???

I don't think you're too picky to want decent secondary, lower flue temps and a clean plume. I'm with begreen, thinking you might have too strong draft. You have 22' of chimney. These stoves breathe very easily. I'm wanting to slow the fire down on the T5, and it's only a 16' chimney. Try a flue damper; Might be overkill, I haven't run the stove enough to know, but I put two dampers in her pipe over there. But now you report 350 SPS, so something has changed..?

 

[Woody Stover]

You may be able to find ceramic blanket, or whatever it's called, online for a lot cheaper. Search the forum..I seem to recall folks talking about alternatives to OEM.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes it’s got a new stock gasket. Baffle is nice and flat. I don’t want to put too thick of a gasket in there. This could lift the baffle off the back rail and create a massive air leak.

I checked the baffle blankets as good as I could. They seem to be ok. They are well down into the brick rails and against the baffle. I was going to buy new ones but for some reason you can’t buy the side blankets separately and my dealer wants $140 for side and top blankets. I might buy the summit side blankets which are $40 and cut them down to fit if needed. Will be over a week for them to get the blankets.

I think I will have to try blocking the boost air. But that doesn’t make sense to me. SPS is cruising at 350 @24” above the stove and STT is 600. I’m running two loads a day and not overheating the house. Maybe I’m being too picky???

That last paragraph sounds good.

 

[Thegriz]

BTW - 800º STT is pushing overfire temp. It is exceptionally hot. I would not take the SST over 750º. As Scotty would put it -Cap'n she's giving it all she's got.

Safe to say I’ve got good draft on this chimney. Was nice and quiet in the house and my boost air intake was whistling! Threw a piece of fridge magnet over the boost hole to shut her up! Lol

Is a flexible fridge magnet the way to go or what do others use?

Any advantages to covering the boost vs part of the primary air intake? Or should I stay away from all that and just throw in a key damper?

Thanks!!

 

[Highbeam]

The rigid fridge magnet would be better than a flexible one since they are often made of plastic with a magnetic skin. Why not start with that? Both blocking that boost air and a key damper may be needed.