PE pacific getting away

[i3bpvh]

Does anyone else have trouble with their pacific getting too hot. When I get it going from a cold start I have to turn the primary all the way down at about 250 deg. stove front temp, then it climbs to about 400-500 and levels off, which it ok. The trouble I have is when I reload from coals, usually around 200 deg, I have to leave the primary open enough to get the new load going and when I turn the air down, round 250-300 deg the temp keeps rising, usually to around 800 deg, then drops slowly. I have done the dollar bill test on the door - seems tight, no ash drawer, checked for cracks. Not sure what to do. BTW burning yellow birch, oak and maple. Any thoughts?

 

[Hogwildz]

Sounds like there is a leak in there somewhere.
How tall is the stack?
when you cut the air down, do you see any flames developing around the door anywhere?
what size splits are you using? Check the door glass seal also.

 

[madison]

Ditto Hog's comments, plus if the pacific has an ash chute, consider that as a leak source as well. Search dollar bill test for testing your door gasket, which would be the first thing I would check.

 

[summit]

If you are reloading onto a good base of hot coals (1-2" thick, still glowing) then there is usually no need to crank her up... just leave it set on low (or a little bit above low)and she'll work a nice slow burn for you very well...

 

[i3bpvh]

Sounds like there is a leak in there somewhere.
How tall is the stack?
when you cut the air down, do you see any flames developing around the door anywhere?
what size splits are you using? Check the door glass seal also.

Chimney is outside brick - SS liner 20ft. I get great draft with a window open to start out with. No flames near the door, but the secondaries fire like crazy. I usually use 4-6 in splits, the birch to take the chill off, the oak and maple for longer burns. There is no ash drawer/ chute. Is there a way to test the glass seal other than just visual inspection?

 

[i3bpvh]

If you are reloading onto a good base of hot coals (1-2" thick, still glowing) then there is usually no need to crank her up... just leave it set on low (or a little bit above low)and she'll work a nice slow burn for you very well...

Good point, I'll have to try that. I didn't want the wood to just sit there and smolder, so I figured I had to give it some air at first.

 

[Dix]

Hi I3 !!

How big of a load are you burning? Full, 1/2?

Have you tried backing off the air to 1/2 at a lower temp?

I've found that backing off when the temp hits 400 °F that my insert will rise up to 550-600 °F , then cruise for an hour or 2 there before needing a few more splits, and even then, if the temp is over 300 °F , it usually takes right off.

Ofcourse this morning, I was at 400 °F , added a few splits to keep the house warm for the day and to have coals to start up tonight, backed it off, and watched it go up to 700 °F . All I heard in my head was BB saying "it's going to get real interesting in your house for an hour or two" :smirk:

 

[Hogwildz]

Hell at 250, my stove would stall & smolder.
Are you taking the air lever all the way down to low as far as it can go?

 

[i3bpvh]

Hell at 250, my stove would stall & smolder.
Are you taking the air lever all the way down to low as far as it can go?

Yup, full open til 250 then all the way down. Like I said this works great from a cold start because it will cont to climb to 500 and then run for around 3 hours before it starts to drop off.

 

[i3bpvh]

Hi I3 !!

How big of a load are you burning? Full, 1/2?

Have you tried backing off the air to 1/2 at a lower temp?

I've found that backing off when the temp hits 400 °F that my insert will rise up to 550-600 °F , then cruise for an hour or 2 there before needing a few more splits, and even then, if the temp is over 300 °F , it usually takes right off.

Of course this morning, I was at 400 °F , added a few splits to keep the house warm for the day and to have coals to start up tonight, backed it off, and watched it go up to 700 °F . All I heard in my head was BB saying "it's going to get real interesting in your house for an hour or two" :smirk:

I usually just take the chill off with 3 splits. From a cold start: add 3 medium splits, kindling, in 20 min I've usually hit 200- 250 and the fan comes on, that's my que to close the air down. Within 30 min from that stove front temp will usually rise to around 500 and hold there. If I reload after temps drop to around 200 with a full load for the overnight I leave the air open the get the load going, but after I close the air the temps just keep climbing, usually within the hour I'm at 800.

I've tried backing off at a lower temp, but it just ends up smoldering and dieing out

 

[Hogwildz]

Should have asked this earlier......... where on the insert are you taking the temp reading from?

 

[Sisu]

I run a Pacific insert too, which is now on its 5th winter. For those who mentioned an ash chute, this insert does not have one. This is the first year I have operated using Hog's configuration of thermometers (two that are left and right over the door).

Mine too does edit: occassionally reach at peak into 800 Farenheit zone with a full or half load, even though the damper fully closed, and then slowly cools down. Sometimes on a full load, the baffle and side rails will get a bit red. This is not during a cold start, but when it is running 24/7. The insert is connected to a >20' 5" diameter ss liner in a internal masonry chimney. I have done the dollar bill test (tight as a drum) and the stove has just been repaired for some cracked welds.

Since I purchased the stove, I questioned the dealer about it over-firing. To me it seemed like the damper did not have full control over the fire. However, I was used to pre-EPA air tight stoves, where you could kill the fire by closing the dampers completely. I was told by the dealer that I my observations were normal and I was running the stove properly.

I think that the EPA rated stoves operate differently. If you take off your boost manifold (just at the bottom inside of the firebox, near the door, you should see a hole that goes completely through the firebox. This is allowing air to enter into the firebox, even with the damper fully closed.

I think this is the nature of the beast for PE inserts. The Summits runs at similar operating temperatures. Although the Pacific is smaller than the Summit and does not have the EBT, the design of the firebox is the same and will generate similar internal operating temperatures. It just unfortunately doesn't maintain the same burn time as the Summit.

 

[Jake Weaver]

I have a PE Pacific too. I have my temp gauge on the right side above the door hinges. With a bed of coals and the temp at 400 I will put in two splits of oak and move the air control to the middle pointing straight out. In 15 minutes it will be at 475 I will move the air control to the far right then come back to the left 1 inch. It will go up to 475 -500 then hold for about 2.5 hours then slowly come down.

For yours to gain 300 degrees with the air control to the far right it has to be getting air from somewhere.

 

[Sisu]

Triple A: If you remove your boost manifold, do you see a hole drilled through the firebox? If you check Post #70 and #71 on this thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42141/ you will see what I mean. That is the only other spot that I can think of where air is getting in.

Can you kill the fire if you put your damper all the closed?

 

[Jake Weaver]

Sisu: I will check when I get home. The fire will be out and the stove cooled down.

If the temp is below 300 and I close the air control it will go out.
If the temp is above 300 and I close the air control it will stay close to that temp.

 

[jqgs214]

Same insert here, If I pack my firebull full and loose I can get it to 800 when reloading, if I pack it tight if tops out around 700 and burns longer.

 

[i3bpvh]

Should have asked this earlier......... where on the insert are you taking the temp reading from?

I have a magnetic thermometer above the door to the right.

 

[i3bpvh]

I run a Pacific insert too, which is now on its 5th winter. For those who mentioned an ash chute, this insert does not have one. This is the first year I have operated using Hog's configuration of thermometers (two that are left and right over the door).

Mine too does edit: occassionally reach at peak into 800 Farenheit zone with a full or half load, even though the damper fully closed, and then slowly cools down. Sometimes on a full load, the baffle and side rails will get a bit red. This is not during a cold start, but when it is running 24/7. The insert is connected to a >20' 5" diameter ss liner in a internal masonry chimney. I have done the dollar bill test (tight as a drum) and the stove has just been repaired for some cracked welds.

BINGO!! I have never seen the baffle or side rails get red, but it still make me question my operation.

 

[Sisu]

Sisu: I will check when I get home. The fire will be out and the stove cooled down.

If the temp is below 300 and I close the air control it will go out.
If the temp is above 300 and I close the air control it will stay close to that temp.

Are you able to maintain 500F with the firebox filled? Has your baffle and/or side rails ever become red? I will document my burn tonight, just to see the temps vs time.

i3bpvh: How long have you had your stove? Did you always have a thermometer on it?

 

[i3bpvh]

i3bpvh: How long have you had your stove? Did you always have a thermometer on it?

Purchased just in Oct. this is my first year burning. I've had the thermometer on it since day one. It's been kinda warm here, so I'm just starting to burn more now. At first I thought I just didn't have the right technique, but it keeps happening. Also, I checked and I do have the some hole under the boost manifold. How do you run yours to prevent this?

 

[madison]

How about dbl checking the thermometer at various temps in the oven on a pizza stone or something, or IR if you could get your hands on one?

 

[Hogwildz]

That is why I run 2 thermos. They run pretty much the same temp. Once in a while if one side of the load start and burns a bit faster then the other it may differ by 50 degrees or so, until the load burns evenly then they run the same. Keep in mind. with thermo on the face of the insert, your actual stove top temp is about 100 degrees higher than what the reading is. Thanks to Brother Bart for his testing and reports on this.

 

[summit]

If you are reloading onto a good base of hot coals (1-2" thick, still glowing) then there is usually no need to crank her up... just leave it set on low (or a little bit above low)and she'll work a nice slow burn for you very well...

Good point, I'll have to try that. I didn't want the wood to just sit there and smolder, so I figured I had to give it some air at first.

It won't.. If you watch it, it'll give a good flame (mostly 2ndy burn) w/ in 5 mins of you closing the door on it and leaving the air control turned down. stack temp will run @ 300-350 for hours.

 

[Sisu]

I had a bit of time to record the evening burn last night. The insert was running all day (wife and kids were home). When I first arrived home, the stove thermometers were reading at around 375F. I waited until it went to 350F and added three rounds and one split of Manitoba maple. It doesn't have a huge heat output and burns as fast or faster than poplar. I am just using it until the temps dip below 0C. Then I will break out the sugar maple, oak and ash.

After adding the wood, I opened the air control fully to get things going for about 15 minutes and then closed it fully.

After 1 hour - Reading 425F
30 minutes later - 550F
30 minutes later - Reading just over 650F
8 minutes later just under 700F
47 minutes later 600
25 minutes later 575F
44 minutes later 450F

I am sure that if I had filled the firebox and/or used sugar maple, the temps would have peaked higher. There also would have been a longer duration of hotter temperatures.

 

[Sisu]

The pictures are out of order in the previous post. Here are the final ones.