PE Pacific Insert - One year after the repair

[Sisu]

Hi Everyone,

Well not really a full year, but close enough. I finally found the time to sweep the chimney and inspect the internals of the insert to assess the integrity of the repairs. For those who are not familiar with the issues I faced last fall, you can search "PE Pacific Insert Not Bullet-Proof" for more details. Against the my own advice and the advice of others, I waited until now to clean the chimney. But as parents with young children will understand, it is hard to find the time, especially during the summer. I also had wood to split and pile etc. etc. etc. We also went to vacation in Europe, which will be another forum post.

So to inspect the internals of the stove and prepare for the sweep, I took out the baffle and side rails of the stove. The rails were fine and the new insulation was in great condition. The baffle was new as of last year and showed some slight sagging in the center.

 

[Sisu]

The baffle looks pretty good. The slight sag is unavoidable I believe.

 

[Sisu]

Now for the inspection of the repair welds. The external crack on the door frame has not changed from last year. It was welded from the inside and is just a cosmetic thing. The internal weld looked to be fine. The firebox was repainted where external repairs were made. However, after a winter of burning, the paint is flaked. This is just a minor cosmetic thing.

Now to the internal welds. I cleaned the repaired areas to remove any ash deposits. The upper left and right corners of the firebox insides show that these welds are starting to come apart again. There is slight cracking on both. I am not sure if this is an issue as these areas are not exposed to the outside. However, if they are structural, could they lead to bigger issues over time? What do you suggest?

Overall the rest of the welds have held.

 

[Sisu]

Okay, now to the chimney sweep. I prepped the stove by covering the baffle connection with duct tape and put a plastic bucket in to collect the swept deposits. The cap and rain-cover looked pretty good. No significant deposits. Last year I added more Roxul insulation around the ss. line at the top and really sealed the cap with high temperature silicon. Once the cap was removed, the interior of the liner had about a 1/4 inch thick of deposits. Sweeping the liner brought back the shine. The rain cap was quickly scrubbed removing any thick creosote deposits. Everything was put back together and the bucket was less than half full of the chimney sweepings.

 

[Sisu]

So in summary, two of the repaired welds have appeared to have not held. Are these areas of concern? Are they integral structural areas? Will they crack further, creating a bigger problem after a couple of winters of burning? It is probably something I should touch base with PE about. What does everyone think?

 

[madrone]

Hard to see. A quick wire brushing might help. Are the cracks running through the new weld itself, through the plate steel of the stove beside the weld, or is the weld pulling away from the plate?

 

[Sisu]

On pictures Sept 2010 (7) and Sept 2010 (9) you can just make out the start of the crack in the corner of the 90 degree connection. These are the top left and right corners of the internal firebox, just as you look from the door. They are not part of the external plates of the firebox, but they are welded to them.

 

[Joey]

How old is your PE stove??? How much wood do you burn over the course of a year????

 

[Sisu]

The stove is five years old and has burned for five winters. I put approximately 5 bush cords through it a season. One Canadian bush cord is about 4'x4'x8'. Search the old thread I mentioned, if you want more details on the repairs. I haven't heard from Hogwildz yet to see how his repairs held up.

 

[BrotherBart]

karl hasn't ever gotten back to us about repairs for his Summit insert either.

 

[Sisu]

Yeah I am curious to see how the others fared. This must be a area of expansion and contraction from heating and cooling, in order to crack the welds like that. It isn't as significant as the cracked welds before. However, it wasn't until after four burn seasons that I initially inspected the original welds.

 

[madrone]

What I was getting at was whether the new cracks are related to the repair, or a design flaw. If the crack is where the weld meets the plate steel, it could be a bad weld, not hot enough. If the crack is near the weld, it could also be a bad weld, too hot. If the crack is running right through the weld, it could be that the original crack wasn't ground out enough. Of course, all those could also be explained by bad design. Too much stress on that point. I'm noticing that your stove has a frame welded to the front of the stove that the door closes against, which is where the cracks are occurring. My stove has no such frame. The door closes right against the front of the firebox body. I'm no engineer, but it looks like a place where a lot of expansion and contraction could put stress on that connection. I haven't seen this stove in person, but I'll have to go take a look in a shop. The PE's have always been on my short list for a possible replacement if I ever go that route.

 

[summit]

call it in... lifetime wtty

 

[Sisu]

What I was getting at was whether the new cracks are related to the repair, or a design flaw. If the crack is where the weld meets the plate steel, it could be a bad weld, not hot enough. If the crack is near the weld, it could also be a bad weld, too hot. If the crack is running right through the weld, it could be that the original crack wasn't ground out enough. Of course, all those could also be explained by bad design. Too much stress on that point. I'm noticing that your stove has a frame welded to the front of the stove that the door closes against, which is where the cracks are occurring. My stove has no such frame. The door closes right against the front of the firebox body. I'm no engineer, but it looks like a place where a lot of expansion and contraction could put stress on that connection. I haven't seen this stove in person, but I'll have to go take a look in a shop. The PE's have always been on my short list for a possible replacement if I ever go that route.

I believe the two welds are cracked right on the weld. They would have been pretty tight spots to reweld. It is likely, as you stated, the original crack wasn't ground enough. The next step for me is to contact PE to get their opinion. I will let you know once I find out. Also, whoever had their stoves repaired last year, let us know how they held up.

 

[albertj03]

Is it normal for the inside of the stove to look so rusty? It looks like it's been sitting in the ocean for 5 years. My cheap CFM stove never looked like that, I hope my new PE doesn't get rusty.

 

[Sisu]

Yours probably will. It is mostly from oxidation during the burn vs moisture. High burn temps + steel + oxygen = iron oxides and EPA rated PE stoves tend to burn hot. Also I burn continuously from October to April-May usually.

The baffle is stainless steel and as you can see it has also oxidized. I wouldn't worry about the aesthetics of the interior of a firebox. You won't even notice it during a burn.

 

[Wacky1]

Just cleaned my PE Summit too. I know what you mean by having a boat load of other chores. I inspected mine for cracks and found none. I only have had mine for one burning season. Ran it continuously.

 

[albertj03]

Just cleaned my PE Summit too. I know what you mean by having a boat load of other chores. I inspected mine for cracks and found none. I only have had mine for one burning season. Ran it continuously.

Is the inside of the firebox rusty after one season?

 

[Wacky1]

Just cleaned my PE Summit too. I know what you mean by having a boat load of other chores. I inspected mine for cracks and found none. I only have had mine for one burning season. Ran it continuously.

Is the inside of the firebox rusty after one season?

Yes, and I believe it is normal.

 

[Sisu]

Hey Everyone,

I sent an email to Cory at PE this past Wednesday, complete with the pictures of affected areas. I still haven't heard from him and will call next week if I don't get a response. I will keep you updated. In the meantime, for those who had their PE stoves repaired last year, let us know how the repairs held out.

 

[Hogwildz]

I haven't even cleaned mine yet. Got way to hot out, to quickly this summer, before I could get to it, and just blew it off.
I already knew the face cracks returned, end of last season. The inner cracks at the upper corners of the the opening held up fine, at a glance.
I have a feeling, no matter how many times it is repaired, that with the way the inner parts are put together inside, it will continue to crack.
My opinion is it is either the design and more of this is happening than we know, or inferior batch of steel.
I love the insert, it does a great job, but of course if I would have found this issue in my initial research, I would probably have chosen another brand.
I still love it though, and I am not that afraid of the issues it is having. If PE wants to step up to the plate and replace it if they know there is an issue for certain year models, I would be accepting of that, and give them a chance to prove to me it is a few certain incidence, and not a widespread problem. Maybe even take the old stoves/inserts back and do some testing to find the problem and rectify it.
My faith in any corporation these days is just not one that high. Things just are not made the way they once were.
When I get a chance, I will post some photos.

 

[BrotherBart]

For all of the good natured banter I have enjoyed with PE owners picking on each others' stoves, I am really hating that this stuff is happening to you guys. And scratching my head that it is the insert model that seems to be the one doing it.

 

[iceman]

For all of the good natured banter I have enjoyed with PE owners picking on each others' stoves, I am really hating that this stuff is happening to you guys. And scratching my head that it is the insert model that seems to be the one doing it.

Good point!
I gotta check mine

 

[albertj03]

Seems like you guys should both get replacements to me. There is obviously a flaw somewhere. I'll be checking my new stove often throughout the burning season.

 

[crazy_dan]

It is not only inserts mine is a free standing stove and it it cracking too, looks like in the same places.