PE Pacific Insert - One year after the repair
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Hogwildz said:
Hi Hogz,
Sorry to hear that the face cracks have returned. In my case the internal cracks are very slight, compared with the previous cracks. However, the previous cracks had four winters of burning to form before I inspected those areas.
Yeah I hope it is just the case of buying a bad apple from the bushel. But I remember Cory from PE telling me last year that some of the internal cracking has been observed by PE in other stoves that were run pretty hard (he made a point to say that running hard did not mean they were over-fired). He also stated that the internal cracks were not worrisome and will settle out. But in my opinion if these internal cracks weaken the overall structure, contraction and expansion from heating and cooling could lead to external cracking too. That is something which we have experienced first hand I think.
I was also not expecting as many of PE owners on this forum to report back that they were experiencing similar issues. As you, I love my stove too, because it does perform very well. However, if cracking is an reoccurring problem our particular stoves, I would want PE to back their warranty fully and get a replacement.
I would not be surprised if there were some design modifications (or QC lapses or tolerance changes) that were made that created some of these issues. The stove metal gets hot, it expands and contracts, if a body part dimension was changed or ignored in QC it could lead to stress fractures at the weakest points.
I had a conversation with a technical rep at PE when I had the manifold baffle warp issues with my T6, and the person did casually mentioned, as an explanation, that they had changed the dimensions of the manifold baffle, ran into the problems of manifold warpage and subsequently changed the dimensions again. They then shipped me free of charge a new manifold baffle with significantly different dimensions, and it has not warped.
IMHO, and this applies to pretty much any warranty, but especially in my understanding of the process of the PE warranty. That the dealer, who is responsible for the warranty remediation with the customer, has to deal with the issues-- knowing that they are not paid upfront to repair/replace, but reimbursed after the remediation. So, when you have a 600 pound object that needs to be replaced, it is physically and financially a tough situation for the dealer.
I had a conversation with a technical rep at PE when I had the manifold baffle warp issues with my T6, and the person did casually mentioned, as an explanation, that they had changed the dimensions of the manifold baffle, ran into the problems of manifold warpage and subsequently changed the dimensions again. They then shipped me free of charge a new manifold baffle with significantly different dimensions, and it has not warped.
IMHO, and this applies to pretty much any warranty, but especially in my understanding of the process of the PE warranty. That the dealer, who is responsible for the warranty remediation with the customer, has to deal with the issues-- knowing that they are not paid upfront to repair/replace, but reimbursed after the remediation. So, when you have a 600 pound object that needs to be replaced, it is physically and financially a tough situation for the dealer.
madison said:
Yeah I haven't approached my dealer yet in regard to the problem. I wanted to touch base with PE first, just to see what they had to say and avoid the middle-man. However, if I don't hear back from PE, I will go through the dealer, and make the process official.
madison said:
Wait a minute.....The baffle warpage it not normal?? Mine warped after the first hot fire I had. Has not gotten any worse. But I was told that the warpage was to be expected. So if I call PE they would possibly replace it with a different one? Other than that, the stove is not cracking that I can see. But there was some creosote on top of the baffle when I removed to clean, in a cone about 2-3" high, along with about 3/4 inch of ash spread out evenly across the baffle. The chimney only had a small amount of creosote that extended about 12" from the top down.
As far as I know, baffle warpage is normal and does not impact upon performance. From everything I have heard from other PE owners, the baffles will sag in the middle. I had mine changed last year because my baffle, after burning for four winters, developed a crack in it. The new baffle has warped a bit after one burn season.
I still haven't heard back from Cory at PE in regard to my cracked repair welds. I will call him after work and go from there.
I still haven't heard back from Cory at PE in regard to my cracked repair welds. I will call him after work and go from there.
Wacky, I was referring to the boost manifold baffle, which is in the front bottom of the the stove, NOT the secondary baffle inside top of stove.
Just an update: No news is not always good news.
I sent Cory from PE an email with pictures of the new cracks in September and never got a reply. I tried calling in the middle of September and the receptionist said he was out until the end of the month. I left a voice mail and sent another email. Still no response. I phoned again on October 29 and spoke to the receptionist. She asked who is calling when I asked to speak to Cory. Once I gave my name she said he is out of the office and will be on the road for two weeks. I sort of get the feeling he is avoiding me.
I haven't gone through the dealer, because right now I am not going to pursue a warranty claim. I am going to wait until the end of these season to see if the cracks get worse and then decide on the course of action. Any way I not as happy with PE this time around. I expected a reply to the email or a phone call from Cory or from someone else at PE. In my email and my voice mail, I just asked for his professional opinion about the cracks.
What does everyone think?
I sent Cory from PE an email with pictures of the new cracks in September and never got a reply. I tried calling in the middle of September and the receptionist said he was out until the end of the month. I left a voice mail and sent another email. Still no response. I phoned again on October 29 and spoke to the receptionist. She asked who is calling when I asked to speak to Cory. Once I gave my name she said he is out of the office and will be on the road for two weeks. I sort of get the feeling he is avoiding me.
I haven't gone through the dealer, because right now I am not going to pursue a warranty claim. I am going to wait until the end of these season to see if the cracks get worse and then decide on the course of action. Any way I not as happy with PE this time around. I expected a reply to the email or a phone call from Cory or from someone else at PE. In my email and my voice mail, I just asked for his professional opinion about the cracks.
What does everyone think?
Oh man- I wish I would have read this before I lit my first fire this morning.
Now I want to let everything cool so I can inspect it.
I mean I have it inspected by my dealer every spring, but now I want to crawl in there and look around myself.
Best of luck to you guys!
Now I want to let everything cool so I can inspect it.
I mean I have it inspected by my dealer every spring, but now I want to crawl in there and look around myself.
Best of luck to you guys!
I think the biggest issue with the warrantee (as I found with my Lopi) is that you might be responsible for shipping the unit to the factory for repair, and then the ship back to your home....Not sure where you are, but I bet its going to be a lot of $$$.
Please let us know how you make out.
Please let us know how you make out.
Still no update. After my initial email sent on September 08, 2010, a follow up email on October 07, 2010 and a few voice mails, I still have not received any form of contact from Cory at PE.
My original email was this:
"I hope all is well with you. During my annual chimney sweep this year, I inspected the repaired welds in my Pacific Energy Pacific insert. All have held up, except for two areas at the top right and left 90 degree corners inside the firebox near the opening. There appear to be cracks forming in the corners of each area. I have attached the pictures of the affected areas, along with the pictures taken just after the repairs were completed (in 2009) for comparison.
My concern is that these cracks could increase with each burn season, potentially causing other cracks to form. However, I am not the expert which is why I have sent my concerns to you. What do you think?"
Any way, I don't want to pee pee on PE, but I think the customer service has hit the toilet bowl on this one. It might be sort of like the individual who was trying to get the answer in regard to the OAK. Maybe if they don't have an answer, playing turtle becomes the strategy. I would be curious to see what their customer service policy is.
Where I work, I am required to give the maximum time-line of one business day to reply to inquires etc. It has been 55 business days, since my original email. What does everyone think?
My original email was this:
"I hope all is well with you. During my annual chimney sweep this year, I inspected the repaired welds in my Pacific Energy Pacific insert. All have held up, except for two areas at the top right and left 90 degree corners inside the firebox near the opening. There appear to be cracks forming in the corners of each area. I have attached the pictures of the affected areas, along with the pictures taken just after the repairs were completed (in 2009) for comparison.
My concern is that these cracks could increase with each burn season, potentially causing other cracks to form. However, I am not the expert which is why I have sent my concerns to you. What do you think?"
Any way, I don't want to pee pee on PE, but I think the customer service has hit the toilet bowl on this one. It might be sort of like the individual who was trying to get the answer in regard to the OAK. Maybe if they don't have an answer, playing turtle becomes the strategy. I would be curious to see what their customer service policy is.
Where I work, I am required to give the maximum time-line of one business day to reply to inquires etc. It has been 55 business days, since my original email. What does everyone think?
Treacherous said:
I don't think they are the same company. I am not too worried at the moment. If the cracks get worse, or more develop, I will go through my dealer via a warranty claim in the spring.
I am just more disappointed that there has been no response to my email or voice mails. In this day and age, it would have taken ten minutes to send an email response etc.
Sisu said:
Agreed. And in this day and age, wise companies know that their responsiveness gets reported on forums like this, and may affect sales.
Thanks for educating all of us, and I hope you get your problem resolved well and soon.
You have more patients than me. I would have PEE PEE'd all over them and gone to the dealer to pursue the warranty claim. They should return your money or give you a new stove! What if you don't notice it getting worse in the middle of Winter and something fails and burns down your house?
I think you've been very fair with the company. If it were up to me, a new insert would have been installed in your house by now. I am baffled that PE may not fully realize the power of the internet in this day and age. That aside, your dilema last year combined with this re-occurrence and your level headedness attempting to deal with them should have put you in a position to be rewarded with a new unit.
You may have to adopt a new mode of attack. Hell hath no wrath like a stove owner scorned.
You may have to adopt a new mode of attack. Hell hath no wrath like a stove owner scorned.
Thanks for the support fellow Hearth members! I just sent an tech support question/comment via their website with my information and asked what their customer service policy was. I also included a link to this thread. Hopefully, I will hear back soon!?
What is your dealer's perspective on this? It seems like that is where the main dialog should be happening.
1 question regarding your repair welds. Was or were the areas to be repaired pre-heated prior to the welding repair. If not I would fully expect them to crack when the stove/insert was placed back in operation due to thermal expansion. The welds and surrounding area should also be annealed after the repair process.
Sisu,
Sorry about your experience, but, I was informed that warranty issues are with the original dealer, not the company.
I believe if/when you ever hear from the home office, they will tell you to contact the dealer. Then they will have to determine how to handle the situation, the dealer would then remediate/fix the issue, then they have to "apply" for reimbursement from the mfg., and if what I was told is true, the dealers are reimbursed for parts, labor is not reimbursed.
Warranties are IMHO, often misrepresented in the sales pitch of any item.
Sorry about your experience, but, I was informed that warranty issues are with the original dealer, not the company.
I believe if/when you ever hear from the home office, they will tell you to contact the dealer. Then they will have to determine how to handle the situation, the dealer would then remediate/fix the issue, then they have to "apply" for reimbursement from the mfg., and if what I was told is true, the dealers are reimbursed for parts, labor is not reimbursed.
Warranties are IMHO, often misrepresented in the sales pitch of any item.
BeGreen said:
Yeah I realize that the dealer is the route via a warranty claim. Currently, I am not seeking another warranty claim. I was just trying to get PE perspective about the cracks reforming. I just wanted to get a "professional" opinion as to whether or not it is wise to ride out the winter the way it is etc. Which is why I emailed and left voice mails to the PE technical service contact. He was the one I dealt with during the original warranty claim.
I didn't think that contacting the dealer would help for this. Most of my dialogue for the original warranty was with PE. The dealer was the middleman who would transfer my information to PE and wait for PE's response. Since this was a technical question and I wanted to let PE know about the condition of the repairs, I thought it was wise to contact them directly. I am pretty sure my dealers response would have been to put in a warranty claim.
blades said:
The dealer took the stove to be repaired via PE's local repair people. I wasn't present during the rewelding, so I don't know if they were preheated and annealed. The original welder who the dealer took the stove to, said that it couldn't be done properly.
madison said:
Thanks Madison. At this point I was just seeking a technical opinion via the PE technical service. I haven't gone the warranty route yet. I am aware of what that entails via time etc. and I would rather be using my stove now during the burn season. I was hoping to ride out until spring and then contact the dealer.
I dealt with Cory at PE for the original warranty claim, so I thought that I would let him know the current status of the repair and try to get his opinion on the cracks. Either way I haven't received an response from him yet. The least he could do is to tell me to talk to the dealer. Also, he is the technical service manager for PE. Therefore, he should be able to handle my technical service question or forward me to someone else who can.
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