PE Summit Info gathering

[Mr. Kelly]

Hi all… This is for anyone who owns a PE Summit, or a similar box…. Mine is around 10 years old.

Is anyone on here really good at the science regarding how these things work?

For example, what exactly is the function of the baffle?

With the baffle in place, how do the gases get up into the flue?

What is the air flow from flame to flue, and how does air circulate around the inside of the box?

What is the purpose of the insulation along the rails of the baffle? And the baffle itself has insulation inside?

Anyone who knows the inner workings of this… I would really appreciate to know the finer scientific points of how this all works.

Thanks all!

 

[Prof]

I posted a crude drawing of the smoke path. It is my understanding that the insulation on the side keeps the smoke heading toward the front of the stove. This gives it more exposure to the air introduced and better secondary combustion (i.e. burning the gases). Insulation also helps keep some heat in the fire box to improve efficiency.

 

[EbS-P]

Basics are keep as much heat in the firebox to support complete combustion. Baffle introduces more oxygen at the hottest part of the box to promote complete combustion and the longer the combustion gasses stay in the stove the more heat the stove is able to extract (to a point exhaust gasses need to stay hot enough to exit the flue above creosote condensation temp of 260F.

 

[Mr. Kelly]

Great… This all helps!

So, some follow-up questions…

It seems that the baffle is filled with insulation, as well… Which makes me wonder what the function of the holes are at the front of the baffle, which seem to help produce the desired “secondary burn“ that everyone keeps talking about… If the baffle is filled with insulation, how does that actually happen?

Also… The metal plate that fits length wise across the front of the box, with holes… I presume that these are air input holes, but where exactly does the air come from? I have no outside source of air connected to the stove, unless there is an open portal in the back that I don’t remember ever seeing… where the outside air intake post/pipe would typically be installed, which I never did.

Plus, I suspect that there are occasions when ash falls into the holes and down into stove oblivion. I suspect that it might fall down into the optional ashtray at the bottom, which I don’t have. How would one clean out what has likely fallen down though those holes?

Lastly… I’ve heard many people say that it is helpful to keep a window next to the stove open a crack, to help airflow. Do you guys typically do this? How much and far do you keep the window open? I would worry that my house would freeze quickly even with the thing cracked a quarter of an inch… 😤🤣

So many questions!

Thanks for all of your great help and thoughts!

 

[begreen]

Time to do a search on the Summit. All these topics are covered in detail in previous threads. Look for Summit threads by hogwildz. He has some that show the baffle disassemble. Also search on Summit boost air.

The bottom of the baffle is a hollow plenum. The upper section has the insulation.

 

[MongoMongoson]

Take a look at this cross section view.

(broken image removed)

Secondary air comes in at the front, runs under the firebox, then up the air riser tube in the back, where it is preheated as it travels. It then enters the baffle, where it gets even hotter. Hot air exits the baffle through holes in the bottom and front, mixing with the vaporized wood gases and burning them. Note in this cross section of the baffle, the insulation on top and the open plenum begreen mentions underneath. That insulation helps to keep the baffle (and the air in it) hot.

Every so often, you should remove that boost air piece of stainless steel angle with holes in it that you mentioned and clean under it. If you haven't, you probably have a bunch of ash under it. Remember the holes point in towards the firebox, not up at the glass.

My stove is about 10 years newer than yours. I do not have the ash dump on mine. Under the stove is a sheet metal box that looks like it should have an ash dump in it (my wife calls it the saggy diaper, and she is right... it really detracts from the look of the stove). If I take that apart, I can see the air intake holes.

The boost air hole is the one that has the weld around it. That goes straight up into the firebox but is covered by that stainless piece of angle in the front of the stove. It has the weld around it on the top, too. You have no control over the boost air.

The smaller round hole in the middle is the minimum allowable air intake and is also not controllable. When you shut down the primary air control, you still have air entering through this hole. This air travels under the firebox towards the back of the stove, through the EBT (which yours may not have) and then up the air riser tube shown in the cross section.

The hole on the left is the primary air intake. The primary air lever moves the plate with the numbers written on it to open or close the primary air intake.

 

[MongoMongoson]

Plus, I suspect that there are occasions when ash falls into the holes and down into stove oblivion. I suspect that it might fall down into the optional ashtray at the bottom, which I don’t have. How would one clean out what has likely fallen down though those holes?

Lastly… I’ve heard many people say that it is helpful to keep a window next to the stove open a crack, to help airflow. Do you guys typically do this? How much and far do you keep the window open? I would worry that my house would freeze quickly even with the thing cracked a quarter of an inch… 😤🤣

On mine, I need to remove two screws on the front of the saggy diaper to get to the inside of that sheet metal box. One is on the front left, the other the front right. You may have some ash accumulated in there, or not. Probably not much if any. The only way for it to get down in there (on my stove) is through the small boost air tube which is something close to the diameter of a pencil. Maybe a little bigger.

I included an image below indicating the saggy diaper, and the right side screw that I'm talking about. There is a corresponding screw on the left side. Take those screws out and you'll have access to the inside of the sheet metal box to see if it has any ash in it.

Keep in mind I have the 2020 model. Yours might be different.

Whether you need to crack a window or not depends on your house. Mine is leaky enough that I don't need to worry about it. If your house is new and tight/well sealed you might need to crack a window. If you don't have any problems with your draft, then your house is leaky enough and you don't have to worry about it.

 

[begreen]

Take a look at this cross section view.

(broken image removed)

Secondary air comes in at the front, runs under the firebox, then up the air riser tube in the back, where it is preheated as it travels. It then enters the baffle, where it gets even hotter. Hot air exits the baffle through holes in the bottom and front, mixing with the vaporized wood gases and burning them. Note in this cross section of the baffle, the insulation on top and the open plenum begreen mentions underneath. That insulation helps to keep the baffle (and the air in it) hot.

Every so often, you should remove that boost air piece of stainless steel angle with holes in it that you mentioned and clean under it. If you haven't, you probably have a bunch of ash under it. Remember the holes point in towards the firebox, not up at the glass.

My stove is about 10 years newer than yours. I do not have the ash dump on mine. Under the stove is a sheet metal box that looks like it should have an ash dump in it (my wife calls it the saggy diaper, and she is right... it really detracts from the look of the stove). If I take that apart, I can see the air intake holes.

The boost air hole is the one that has the weld around it. That goes straight up into the firebox but is covered by that stainless piece of angle in the front of the stove. It has the weld around it on the top, too. You have no control over the boost air.

The smaller round hole in the middle is the minimum allowable air intake and is also not controllable. When you shut down the primary air control, you still have air entering through this hole. This air travels under the firebox towards the back of the stove, through the EBT (which yours may not have) and then up the air riser tube shown in the cross section.

The hole on the left is the primary air intake. The primary air lever moves the plate with the numbers written on it to open or close the primary air intake.


View attachment 286831

View attachment 286830

That's a different air control system than on the older models.

 

[planner steve]

Hi all… This is for anyone who owns a PE Summit, or a similar box…. Mine is around 10 years old.

Is anyone on here really good at the science regarding how these things work?

For example, what exactly is the function of the baffle?

With the baffle in place, how do the gases get up into the flue?

What is the air flow from flame to flue, and how does air circulate around the inside of the box?

What is the purpose of the insulation along the rails of the baffle? And the baffle itself has insulation inside?

Anyone who knows the inner workings of this… I would really appreciate to know the finer scientific points of how this all works.

Thanks all!

Another picture of PE firebox.