PE T6 - not working as expected - Bad decision or just uneducated?

[moosetrek]

To start, we recently bought the T6 after much acclaim here, and sold our Englander 30NC. We wanted a stove that would be more than adequate, and the claim of 3000 sq ft (I know, just numbers...) seemed impressive coupled with the unanimous great reviews. Our house is about 900 sq feet, poorly insulated, with lots of windows and 9' ceilings. So far, I haven't been able to get the stove above 500, as measured on the stove top 3-5" forward and left of the pipe. In understand the radiant/convection concept and don't expect radiant heat, but would expect the stove to get over 500 on a load of either dry pine or dry hardwood, or some combo thereof. Glass stays clean, no visible smoke, chimney is 20'+ straight up with good draft. OAK draws fine, no difference with it hooked up or not. Just wondering, am I missing something? Given how we're heating our small home, I can't imagine heating anything larger with this stove, despite the reviews (and member claims). Any help is appreciated, the stove is great to look at and well-built, but I'm looking for more heat out of it... or did we make a poor choice? Would a Summit have been better?

Thanks all-

 

[begreen]

Something sounds not right. Just to confirm, the temp is being taken directly on the stove top and not the trivet, right? If so, the temp should be higher. I only stay low around 500 with a smaller 2-3 split fire. Normally, with a stoveload of wood, it gets up to at least 600 and often 650. With hardwood we've seen 700 several times.

Was the flue cleaned (including the cap) when the stove was installed?

As for burning, this may be different from the 30NC. Perhaps the air is being cut back too soon? Let good secondary burning start and then try cutting it back say 50%. Let the stove top temp rise to 500 °F then cut back the air all the way or close to it. That should encourage strong secondary burning and temps should continue to rise to about 600 °F or higher.

 

[moosetrek]

Flue was cleaned when we installed about 5 weeks ago- Most probs with these seem to be door seals, ash door, etc. causing too much fire, not too little. And yes, temp is on stove top not trivet. If trivet hits 500, that's some serious heat!

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I bet you're shutting the air down too quickly. . .

 

[begreen]

The ash pan is not a sealed unit. The little door in the floor of the firebox is what some folks have problems with when a piece of charcoal or debris gets stuck in it and holds it slightly open. This is very easy to visually check with the ash pan pulled out. The trap door should be flat flush with the bottom of the stove. I just leave mine filled with ash and don't use it at all. For the door gasket, try the dollar bill test all the way around.

Can you describe the procedure in loading and burning, air control settings etc. and how the fire burns at each stage? Are you getting good response to the air control?

 

[moosetrek]

Maybe that's it then? The 30-NC we could shut down faster I bet, maybe just a different design of the air system or flow, capacities, etc.

 

[moosetrek]

I usually load it with a few small pine splits to burn down coals and get it "prepped", then a load of 75% HW and 25% pine, or so. Loaded N/S and air on full open. When everything gets going, about 15-20 mins later, cut the air back to around 25%. Maybe we should try 50% instead? My understanding is that the air control is full open for the first 1/4-1/3 of the lever's travel, we see no difference in flames until about 1/3 way closed. After that there is a definite response to air adjustment though. I tried the dollar bill test, and the door seals fine. The ash door has never been used since we installed the stove (and probably never will be). No visible smoke from the chimney after it's going and the air is cut back. Thanks!

 

[BrotherBart]

Yea with the 30 you had that blast of unregulated zipper air blasting in the front even with the primary air shut down. From what it looks like with the T6/Summit you can close down primary air farther so that means you need to leave it open longer to come up to temp. Same thing with my 30 after the zipper was eliminated.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I usually load it with a few small pine splits to burn down coals and get it "prepped", then a load of 75% HW and 25% pine, or so. Loaded N/S and air on full open. When everything gets going, about 15-20 mins later, cut the air back to around 25%. Maybe we should try 50% instead? My understanding is that the air control is full open for the first 1/4-1/3 of the lever's travel, we see no difference in flames until about 1/3 way closed. After that there is a definite response to air adjustment though. I tried the dollar bill test, and the door seals fine. The ash door has never been used since we installed the stove (and probably never will be). No visible smoke from the chimney after it's going and the air is cut back. Thanks!

I can't say what you should do other than you should let your fire run a little longer. It took me several months to let my PE Spectrum Classic (which is working great, BTW) really run before shutting her down. Just tinker. Make adjustments. See what happens.

 

[begreen]

I think that is the same for almost all of us. Each stove/flue/fuel setup makes for a new learning experience. It takes a bit to explore all the various options with loading, air supply, wood types, etc.. But that is also part of the fun of it too.

 

[begreen]

I usually load it with a few small pine splits to burn down coals and get it "prepped", then a load of 75% HW and 25% pine, or so. Loaded N/S and air on full open. When everything gets going, about 15-20 mins later, cut the air back to around 25%. Maybe we should try 50% instead? My understanding is that the air control is full open for the first 1/4-1/3 of the lever's travel, we see no difference in flames until about 1/3 way closed. After that there is a definite response to air adjustment though. I tried the dollar bill test, and the door seals fine. The ash door has never been used since we installed the stove (and probably never will be). No visible smoke from the chimney after it's going and the air is cut back. Thanks!

If could be the fire is getting too much air and that is what is cooling it down. Even with the air all the way closed, there is still a generous feed going to the fire. Try 50% reduction as the first step. Let the fire get hot with good secondary burning, then close it all the way or until the flames get lazy. Secondary burning should increase as the wood outgases and as it increases, the stovetop temp should top 600 °F.

 

[moosetrek]

I'll give it a shot - thanks for all the suggestions. We love the stove, just want to get the heat out of it I know it's capable of. We're looking forward to taking it with us to the next (larger) home too. BRING ON THE SNOW! (It's 3 degrees, -20 wind chill, and snow coming down about horizontal).

 

[snowtime]

Check the window gasket. Mine came with a large part not even installed. As stated check the door gasket but also check the door to be sure its closing evenly. Theres lots of posts on adjusting door. One thing I noticed that makes us all submit different numbers is whether you use a blower or not. In my case wood is my only source of heat and I have no blower. My home is a little over 3600' but i do not heat the basement so 2400' is what is heated by the T6. If I can keep this house at 70f when its -40 outside then you should have no problem. If I load up on a bed of coals this stove will go to 800 every time and the only way to stop it is to not put many splits in. My gage is on the steel top. I am thinking you do not have the draft I do if for no other reason the temps around here make for some serious drafting.

Try this get a bed of coals at least 4" deep and fill with 4" splits NS. Leave the air on high until the stove reaches 500 then damper down in 2 steps. If that does not get you a big rise in temp after an hour then I am a t a loss.
This stove works well with NS loading. You better believe there is a big difference in heat output. The first year I had this stove I cut for both NS and EW and I could not believe how much more heat I got out of NS. Hope some of this helps.
Just to add I am burning pine if your hardwood then let the stove get to 600 before slowly damping down.

 

[moosetrek]

Snowtime,

I'll try that tonight. We're supposed to be about -2 or so, with a clean 20'+ chimney draft should be no prob but -2 isn't -40; I'll report back later after a few beverages, er, experiments. We don't have a blower either, I'm almost ready to buy one for a 30NC and add it on (same blower body I think, different mount but $100 cheaper). Maybe tomorrow's project. Coming in from throwing hay to a toasty stove is a great feeling- thanks again.

 

[begreen]

Temps I posted are for non-blower operation. FWIW, I find that the temp of the stove goes up faster once a robust secondary combustion is established. If I let the top get to 600 before starting to close her down, I would be looking at 700 on the stove top and shorter burn times, but a lot more heat!

 

[madison]

A couple of suggestions and questions.... Slap me if I am off base, you did not mention that the home was actually uncomfortably cold, only the stove top temp not being what you expected. I really think the type of heat put off by the convection Alderlea's if different, especially if you are used to the steel radiant stove. There is no sunburn type of heat unless you are looking into the window from a few feet away. What are the room temps?

If you have a blower on the back of the T6, our stove top temps are 75 - 100F less with the fan on vs fan off. I think the fan does help with heat output.

Loose gaskets and ashpan traps would generally result in an over burn not under burn. If the ash trap is leaking, you can see it as a nuclear glow in the ash/coals on top of it.

1. Disconnect and Plug the OAK with insulation, no need for more cold air in your home.

I would alsot take that thermometer off and check to see if it is close to what your oven registers at various temps. If you have a pizza stone, or some heavy cast iron skillet, put the thermometer on that for a while in the oven. Keep in mind, that ovens are typically not the most accurate, but it will give you a hint if the stove top thermometer is way off.

Split a bunch of small stuff, couple inches max, open the air (to the LEFT) and put a bunch of that in the stove and see what happens with the burn and stove temp.

Curious to find out what the issues are. our house is 3300 sq ft, leaky, and pretty much all glass on one side of the house, 20ft ceilings in the great rooms. The t6 heats the house if the outside temps are 20 or greater. Less than that, the furnace is coming on. Dead of winter, I think we would need a T12, haven't seen one of them yet.

 

[moosetrek]

I'm curious about BeGreen posted - even full open I can't hit 600 on the stovetop, never mind cut back then. I tried this evening loading (small load, admittedly as there is a huge pile of coals and DW had already filled it when I got home), dropping back only 50%, and waiting. I think I hit 535 or so. Heating a combined area of 500 sq ft immediately around the stove (LR, DR, and part of the kitchen) we started at 54 degrees and are up to maybe 64 after 3 hrs. This just don't seem right? I understand it's a different kind of heat, but even so, a T6 should be able to heat at least that amount of space easily. Temps are -2 outside, and iut's an old house, but still, any suggestions for possible mechanical issues? We occasionally get smoke in the house when reloading, but as mentioned chimney is clean (removed ember screen on chimney cap prior to stove install, and swept chimney, etc.) 5 wks ago and there's no way we have enough green wood or low burns to get significant buildup. Ideas? Thanks as always-

 

[moosetrek]

Update - cleaned out most of the coals and tried it again. Same result. It won't hit over 530 no matter what - including some small split pine and punky stull that burns really fast but hot. Even if the thermometer is way off, sumthin' just ain't right- this beast stove is unable to heat a 500 sq ft area. Admittedly, temps are -4, but still I expect that Snowtime has much colder temps than that. All I can think of is the wood, we've never had a prob with the last stove, also EPA, heating us out of house and home on the same wood supply. And this issue's been consistenc ascross teh entire wood supply, some of which is really really seasoned pine. We've got 55 F in the kitchen, about 40 in the bathroom and 65 in the living room with the stove. About ready to fire up the furnace... Any other ideas? Hope all are warm and cozy out there!

 

[BrowningBAR]

Update - cleaned out most of the coals and tried it again. Same result. It won't hit over 530 no matter what - including some small split pine and punky stull that burns really fast but hot. Even if the thermometer is way off, sumthin' just ain't right- this beast stove is unable to heat a 500 sq ft area. Admittedly, temps are -4, but still I expect that Snowtime has much colder temps than that. All I can think of is the wood, we've never had a prob with the last stove, also EPA, heating us out of house and home on the same wood supply. And this issue's been consistenc ascross teh entire wood supply, some of which is really really seasoned pine. We've got 55 F in the kitchen, about 40 in the bathroom and 65 in the living room with the stove. About ready to fire up the furnace... Any other ideas? Hope all are warm and cozy out there!

I completely understand your frustration, except your problem is a lot worse than what I am dealing with (Intrepid issues).

There HAS to be something wrong here. The T6 has been praised by many here and I've never heard a bad thing about it. Have you tried running to the store and getting some kiln dried wood? If you can't get it over 530 with that there is something wrong with your set up and/or stove.

Unfortunately I have never used one, so I am really quite useless.

 

[snowtime]

One last thought. You said that you got some smoke on reloading. When you have coals and its cold out with a tall straight chimney you should not have a smoke problem. COULD IT BE THAT YOU HAVE NOT REMOVED THE KNOCKOUT UNDER THE STOVE. Its the air supply and it should have given you lots of trouble unless you have really bad air leaks that let the stove kind of work. If you have than I say your wood is not as good as last years. If so really small splits will still burn hot.

 

[begreen]

Agreed this doesn't sound right. I'm wondering a bit about the stove installation. Kill the oak, it sounds like this place is as leaky as a sieve already.

I am wondering if the baffle is in correctly. Was it removed at any point? When the stove was installed, was it all intact or were parts pulled out to make it easier, lighter?

I'm assuming that the previous stove was the 30NC and that worked ok with the current fuel, correct? If so, I have to eliminate that as a possibility, though the word punky disturbed me. I never burn punky wood in a stove when I want heat. Punky wood is better for smoke.

 

[moosetrek]

I didn't know of any knockout, I'll check... although the air control has a pretty active effect on the fire, would that still be the case if the heat was all from leaks? BG - no parts were removed, it was installed from the crate onto the hearth; baffle looked good, door seems to seal well. Punky was simply some of the beetle killed pine that is dry on the outside, and the inner 70% is loosely fibrous and soft, burns fine and not wet at all; just goes quick like compressed tinder. Still showing just over 500 on the dial... We love this stove except for this minor inconvenience!

 

[Nic36]

If you didn't remove the knockout, then that's probably it. If the T6 is anything like mine, you have one of two knockout plates you can remove for the stove to get air and to hook up an optional outside air kit.

It will be round and 4 inches in diameter. One will probably be under the stove and another will be on the back side of the stove. Easy to see.

Nevermind. Once again I didn't read everything. I see you have an OAK hooked up already.

 

[snowtime]

One last try then powers off here. Your description of the wood sounds bad to me. The word punk comes to mind but the fact is wood that is too old will burn great but not have much heat in it. The fibers have broken down to the point that I will not burn this wood for it burns like paper. Try getting some commercial wood maybe some fire logs at the nearest homebuilding spot or some scrap lumber. This is just for a test to see if its your wood.

 

[Hogwildz]

Instead of shutting the air all the way down, leave the leave open a bit even up to 25% open.
After fixing my EBT, I can no longer just shut my stove all the way down. Now I leave the air cracked.
But now have much more precise & better control over the burn & temp.