Pellet brands, any differences?

[jparisi]

Hi All,

While I've own a pellet stove for a few years, it was on the porch and only used once in a while.

This year, I got a Harmon insert and dove in for the "whole house" effect.

I had two different brands of pellets delivered, both premium. Not by choice, just turned out that way.

I've been using New England Wood pellets for a few weeks and seem to be getting a lot of ash. The Harmon is supposed to hold a ton's worth of ash but I've had to empty it after about 12 bags. I called the dealer and he suggested switching to the other brand, Ambiance, and giving it a try. After a day I can tell the ash content is already a lot lower.

He offered to take back the New Englands if I want but I already burned about 30 bags.

So, I have a few questions,

1. Should I take him up on the offer? I can live with emptying the ash more a little more often if the option is to haul 20 bags back and swap them out.

2. Seems to me that premium pellets are almost a commodity. All the posts I see just compare price, no brand info. Should I shop by brand? Was this just a fluke?

Thanks,

JP

 

[begreen]

Yes, if you like the other brand better, than trade out. That sounds like a good offer by your dealer. Thank him/her.

This is an earlier thread, I think this may be what you are looking for:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4644/

Who makes Ambience pellets?

 

[jparisi]

Valfei makes the Ambience pellets, Canadian brand.

 

[begreen]

Thanks, I'll add them to the spreadsheet. Can you add the price in your locale to the Pellet wiki?

 

[GVA]

Which NE pellets did you get does the bag have brown or green writing on the bag?
I never had much luck with the valfei ambiance... They may be better this year however.
The up to a ton statement is for the big boys the P-61 and P-68
The accentra insert holds much less than the free standing but it's because it's an insert.
you can gently stir the ash in the ash pan and it will compress quite a bit but with that stove I'd say max of 1/2 a ton before cleaning thats 25 bags.
what is your location you can go to the very top of the page here and up by your login is the fuel price reports you can sort by state and see if any are near you.

 

[jparisi]

I got brown writing. Date stamp on the bag is from 5/06.

What problems have you had with the Valfei?


I'm hesitant to post the price I got as it was a deal with the insert, $250/ton $50 delivery for all.

Also, the manual for the Acentra states the ash pan holds a ton of premium ash. Even if it's wrong like you mention, 12 bags is WAY to few to fill the pan. And really, it was overfilled. I knocked the ash down into the corners of the pan and stirred it up and still had to vac some out before I could slide the pan out to empty it.

And don't worry, I used a small shop vac after the stove cooled and emptied it right away so no chance of hot ash sitting in there and starting a fire.


JP

 

[iceman]

Which NE pellets did you get does the bag have brown or green writing on the bag?
I never had much luck with the valfei ambiance... They may be better this year however.
The up to a ton statement is for the big boys the P-61 and P-68
The accentra insert holds much less than the free standing but it's because it's an insert.
you can gently stir the ash in the ash pan and it will compress quite a bit but with that stove I'd say max of 1/2 a ton before cleaning thats 25 bags.
what is your location you can go to the very top of the page here and up by your login is the fuel price reports you can sort by state and see if any are near you.

i have an accentra freestanding and have burn about 20 bags this season and it isn't half full yet
I am burning a mix of ne.... energex ans homewood (walmart brand)
it could be that his stove is off a little or he just got a bad batch of ne
cause thats crazy i ne is like one of the best pellets around

 

[GVA]

The insert ash pan is smaller than the freestanding I'm hoping Anton Smirnov can chime in here as he has the insert also, I think this was covered by him not to long ago. I'll look for the thread.
found it...
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3992/

 

[HarryBack]

I got brown writing. Date stamp on the bag is from 5/06.

What problems have you had with the Valfei?


I'm hesitant to post the price I got as it was a deal with the insert, $250/ton $50 delivery for all.

Also, the manual for the Acentra states the ash pan holds a ton of premium ash. Even if it's wrong like you mention, 12 bags is WAY to few to fill the pan. And really, it was overfilled. I knocked the ash down into the corners of the pan and stirred it up and still had to vac some out before I could slide the pan out to empty it.

And don't worry, I used a small shop vac after the stove cooled and emptied it right away so no chance of hot ash sitting in there and starting a fire.


JP

The freestanding Accentra MIGHT hold a ton's worth of ash, but I say slightly less. With the insert. most folks around here (MA) seem to change out the ash pan about once a week. Back in may, $250/ton was a fair deal, but right now you can get the Premium hardwood New Englands for $249 or so. Beware that New England makes several types of pellets-

1. Premium Hardwood Pellets
2. Premium Canadian Softwood Pellets
3. Standard Grade Hardwood Pellets (more ash)
You can tell by reading the bags closely what they are.

I really dont think theres a whole lot of difference between any premium pellet. Roughly the same btu/lb, ash content, etc, and in practice they all burn about the same, and Ive got a huge litany of pellets Ive burned...lets see...trip down memory lane here...

Energex
New England Premium Hardwood
New England Premium softwood
New England Standard
Phoenix Standard
Cubex Premium
Pinnacle Premium
Narragansett premium
Quality Premium
Wood Pellet Company Premium
Allegheny Premium

Different grade, a few of them, but the premiums all seemed to burn ok, with one or two edging out the others.

 

[iceman]

I got brown writing. Date stamp on the bag is from 5/06.

What problems have you had with the Valfei?


I'm hesitant to post the price I got as it was a deal with the insert, $250/ton $50 delivery for all.

Also, the manual for the Acentra states the ash pan holds a ton of premium ash. Even if it's wrong like you mention, 12 bags is WAY to few to fill the pan. And really, it was overfilled. I knocked the ash down into the corners of the pan and stirred it up and still had to vac some out before I could slide the pan out to empty it.

And don't worry, I used a small shop vac after the stove cooled and emptied it right away so no chance of hot ash sitting in there and starting a fire.


JP

The freestanding Accentra MIGHT hold a ton's worth of ash, but I say slightly less. With the insert. most folks around here (MA) seem to change out the ash pan about once a week. Back in may, $250/ton was a fair deal, but right now you can get the Premium hardwood New Englands for $249 or so. Beware that New England makes several types of pellets-

1. Premium Hardwood Pellets
2. Premium Canadian Softwood Pellets
3. Standard Grade Hardwood Pellets (more ash)
You can tell by reading the bags closely what they are.

I really dont think theres a whole lot of difference between any premium pellet. Roughly the same btu/lb, ash content, etc, and in practice they all burn about the same, and Ive got a huge litany of pellets Ive burned...lets see...trip down memory lane here...

Energex
New England Premium Hardwood
New England Premium softwood
New England Standard
Phoenix Standard
Cubex Premium
Pinnacle Premium
Narragansett premium
Quality Premium
Wood Pellet Company Premium
Allegheny Premium

Different grade, a few of them, but the premiums all seemed to burn ok, with one or two edging out the others.

cmon harry give us your opinion of which one was the best for you and what stove you used rank them 1-2-3 please.......
also due to the mild winter have you seen prices for pellets start to drop?

 

[Kenny1]

Heh.

Maybe its just me, but even with the same brand (Lauzon Northern brand) I have noticed a difference.

We just started our second pallet of pellets, and I noticed that the the second pallet pellets seem a little lighter in color and smell a bit different.

No biggie I guess. I would assume that it would depend on the type of wood being processed into the pellets. If the pellet mill gets sawdust from different sources, there could be a difference in the pellets.

Which (I think) is the whole point of having standards. If the pellets qualify as being premium, then any differences (brand to brand or batch to batch) should not make a great difference to stove performance.

 

[GVA]

Harry that's quite a list, but most if not all of those are members of the PFI yes?

Valfei is not and I noticed quite a bit of difference on my stove when I switched to a better brand..... With the Valfei my stove never went out of high burn I guess the Btu's just weren't there.

I threw a thread out months ago about PFI but did not really got the response I was expecting.

I think that the pellet companies should be forced to follow The PFI guidelines and not just put on the bag what the guidelines are, as this leads the consumer to believe that these pellets are within the guidelines (ash, fines, size,etc) of the PFI.

 

[HarryBack]

Yea, GVA, most are PFI, far as I know.

As for stoves, I burn a Harman P61, Advance, P68, XXV, Accentra FS, and Accentra Insert (at least THIS year).

As for pellet prices, all you have to do is look at

http://www.woodpelletprice.com/

fairly frequently, and youll see a slight trend downward. Most retailers will follow suit of the manufacturers will lower their cost. Somewhere I pointed this out a couple of months ago, but Im not the type to say "I told you so"... ;-P
Im not sure how far the manufacturers can afford to let it go down, as they have to contract and set prices for raw material in the spring, but if the pellets arent selling, theyve got to find some way of moving product of the warehouse floor to make room for contracted raw material. Downward? Yes, slightly.....how far? I dont know.
The pellet business radically changes every year, as a dealer we are always guessing.

 

[iceman]

Yea, GVA, most are PFI, far as I know.

As for stoves, I burn a Harman P61, Advance, P68, XXV, Accentra FS, and Accentra Insert (at least THIS year).

As for pellet prices, all you have to do is look at

http://www.woodpelletprice.com/

fairly frequently, and youll see a slight trend downward. Most retailers will follow suit of the manufacturers will lower their cost. Somewhere I pointed this out a couple of months ago, but Im not the type to say "I told you so"... ;-P
Im not sure how far the manufacturers can afford to let it go down, as they have to contract and set prices for raw material in the spring, but if the pellets arent selling, theyve got to find some way of moving product of the warehouse floor to make room for contracted raw material. Downward? Yes, slightly.....how far? I dont know.
The pellet business radically changes every year, as a dealer we are always guessing.

harry, depot dropped 50 bucks i couldn't believe a suck a sharp drop so quickly

 

[GVA]

Yea, GVA, most are PFI, far as I know.

As for stoves, I burn a Harman P61, Advance, P68, XXV, Accentra FS, and Accentra Insert (at least THIS year).

As for pellet prices, all you have to do is look at

http://www.woodpelletprice.com/

fairly frequently, and youll see a slight trend downward. Most retailers will follow suit of the manufacturers will lower their cost. Somewhere I pointed this out a couple of months ago, but Im not the type to say "I told you so"... ;-P
Im not sure how far the manufacturers can afford to let it go down, as they have to contract and set prices for raw material in the spring, but if the pellets arent selling, theyve got to find some way of moving product of the warehouse floor to make room for contracted raw material. Downward? Yes, slightly.....how far? I dont know.
The pellet business radically changes every year, as a dealer we are always guessing.

Which stove is the most noisey? ;-)
Nah I just kidding here Harry

Well price is one thing, but if I have to pay $250 a ton and had a choice between PFI or non.......... I'd take the PFI hands down... At least I know there is someone that I could post a complaint about those 3" long pellets that I'm getting......
I posted before about those Ambiance pellets but most was the dealer letting some bags get wet, but the other most was the heat output , and the other other most, there was a funky smell outside when the stove was going :sick:

 

[HarryBack]

Yea, GVA, most are PFI, far as I know.

As for stoves, I burn a Harman P61, Advance, P68, XXV, Accentra FS, and Accentra Insert (at least THIS year).

As for pellet prices, all you have to do is look at

http://www.woodpelletprice.com/

fairly frequently, and youll see a slight trend downward. Most retailers will follow suit of the manufacturers will lower their cost. Somewhere I pointed this out a couple of months ago, but Im not the type to say "I told you so"... ;-P
Im not sure how far the manufacturers can afford to let it go down, as they have to contract and set prices for raw material in the spring, but if the pellets arent selling, theyve got to find some way of moving product of the warehouse floor to make room for contracted raw material. Downward? Yes, slightly.....how far? I dont know.
The pellet business radically changes every year, as a dealer we are always guessing.

harry, depot dropped 50 bucks i couldn't believe a suck a sharp drop so quickly

yep, Iceman, but their pellets were quite overpriced in the first place. They were leading the pack in price, so to speak, with the highest prices on Seth's webpage, by the way. A good example of why its important to know your prices and what you are buying when buying from the big orange box.

 

[iceman]

Yea, GVA, most are PFI, far as I know.

As for stoves, I burn a Harman P61, Advance, P68, XXV, Accentra FS, and Accentra Insert (at least THIS year).

As for pellet prices, all you have to do is look at

http://www.woodpelletprice.com/

fairly frequently, and youll see a slight trend downward. Most retailers will follow suit of the manufacturers will lower their cost. Somewhere I pointed this out a couple of months ago, but Im not the type to say "I told you so"... ;-P
Im not sure how far the manufacturers can afford to let it go down, as they have to contract and set prices for raw material in the spring, but if the pellets arent selling, theyve got to find some way of moving product of the warehouse floor to make room for contracted raw material. Downward? Yes, slightly.....how far? I dont know.
The pellet business radically changes every year, as a dealer we are always guessing.

harry, depot dropped 50 bucks i couldn't believe a suck a sharp drop so quickly

yep, Iceman, but their pellets were quite overpriced in the first place. They were leading the pack in price, so to speak, with the highest prices on Seth's webpage, by the way. A good example of why its important to know your prices and what you are buying when buying from the big orange box.

exactly, i laugh everytime i go in there i told the guy that now their price is more reasonable... and he says what do you mean?
so i told him that everyone else was at least 30 bucks lower than them and when i told him that that brand was made by energex and every store was selling enerx for less his mouth dropped


off topic everytime my accentra s auger goes it sounds like a rattiling noise inside of it when i turn it up past 4 it doesn't make it
i have took it apart and cleaned it out and still makes the noise what could rattle in it?

 

[HarryBack]

pellets rattle in when they fall down off the slide plate and land on the back of the auger

 

[GVA]

Oh boy.....
Step one Scrape that burnpot real good
Step two What's the date code on the gearmotor
Did you say you took the Gearmotor apart??????????? Was there grease in there?
As far as feed rate it doesn't matter it shouldn't affect the GM as it's not a speed control....
Are we sure it's the Gearmotor making the noise?

 

[HarryBack]

I think hes talking abt the auger, GVA. I did take a gearmotor apart once....what a mess! Fulla grease and gears! Would you beleive the primary gear is nylon? I imagine its a safety in case something jams the auger. There's date codes on gearmotors?!

 

[iceman]

pellets rattle in when they fall down off the slide plate and land on the back of the auger

lol its not that noise it almost sounds as if the big plates on the inside of it are loose but i checked and they are not
now its been quiet for about ten minutes

 

[GVA]

I think hes talking abt the auger, GVA. I did take a gearmotor apart once....what a mess! Fulla grease and gears! Would you beleive the primary gear is nylon? I imagine its a safety in case something jams the auger. There's date codes on gearmotors?!

Yes there is. You remember my old problems with the gearmotors.... I was in contact with GA and the engineers said that the motor problem was fixed the motors dated around the end of 2005 have a better gear in place as the same one seemed to always fail.
My spare here I just checked the sticker:
Date 04-11-24
As you can tell I still don't have one of the newer models.

I have taken a couple apart and the grease on one of them was nearly non existant.
I can't remember the #s exactly but it's around 120 inch pounds and about 800 to 1 ratio :wow:

 

[HarryBack]

pellets rattle in when they fall down off the slide plate and land on the back of the auger

lol its not that noise it almost sounds as if the big plates on the inside of it are loose but i checked and they are not
now its been quiet for about ten minutes

I guess it could be one of the heat exchanger plate covers, but ive never seen them do that. Are they unlatched? Like GVA says, could also be crap adhered to the burnpot....scrape it good. Is your flame guide seated correctly as well?

 

[iceman]

pellets rattle in when they fall down off the slide plate and land on the back of the auger

lol its not that noise it almost sounds as if the big plates on the inside of it are loose but i checked and they are not
now its been quiet for about ten minutes

I guess it could be one of the heat exchanger plate covers, but ive never seen them do that. Are they unlatched? Like GVA says, could also be crap adhered to the burnpot....scrape it good. Is your flame guide seated correctly as well?

the flame guide is okay the burn pot i scrape before starting it everytime it sounds like its coming from inside the stove however if i push down on the top it goes away i put a level on it and its good !! so wtfreak

 

[GVA]

pellets rattle in when they fall down off the slide plate and land on the back of the auger

lol its not that noise it almost sounds as if the big plates on the inside of it are loose but i checked and they are not
now its been quiet for about ten minutes

I guess it could be one of the heat exchanger plate covers, but ive never seen them do that. Are they unlatched? Like GVA says, could also be crap adhered to the burnpot....scrape it good. Is your flame guide seated correctly as well?

the flame guide is okay the burn pot i scrape before starting it everytime it sounds like its coming from inside the stove however if i push down on the top it goes away i put a level on it and its good !! so wtfreak

What kinda noise
is it vibration a whirring a grinding