Pellet stove as supplemental heat to electric furnace

[Jumpalot]

Hey everyone, new guy here from Wyoming.
As I was Google searching for an answer, this forum kept popping up so I decided to join.
I'm in the process of purchasing a new house and it has an electric forced air furnace. There is no gas line currently to the house. I'm freaking a little anticipating a really high electric bill during the winter. I originally thought about just converting to a gas furnace, but I would have to get the gas company to set a meter and then someone to run the line and hook up the furnace. I'm waiting for quotes to come in now. But, I started thinking that maybe a decent pellet stove would help. I'd basically only run it for a few hours after I get home from work until I went to bed. But as I was pricing pellet stoves yesterday, I was being quoted $4000-$4800 for the stove and an additional $2000 for the install. That's starting to sound as expensive as what I'm anticipating the gas conversion to run. I'm looking for any input and personal experience from you that might be similar. Keep in mind, it can get -40 below here at times. So, cost wise, is it better to convert to gas or get a stove? If this is the wrong forum, I apologize. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[heat seeker]

Much as I like my pellet stove, I think you'd be better off with the gas. No finding, buying, transporting, stacking, etc. pellets. The financial aspects depend on the price of gas, now and in the future. If you want the ambience of a fire, a gas fireplace is an option.
No gas available here, so I didn't have to choose. Right now, oil is cheap, so the stove gets less use these days, but that will probably change in the next couple of years.

 

[jackman]

Welcome to the forum. You're in the right place for your question. Here's a website you can use to compare heating costs: https://www.pelletheat.org/compare-fuel-costs

The quotes you got for a new stove and installation are about right for a high quality stove and pro installation. You could save some money buying a lower cost model and doing a self install if you have some DIY expertise. As heat seeker has suggested you do have some maintenance to do managing the pellet supply and cleaning of the stove. It's a chore.

I would also make sure you have 2 sources of heat for your home in case one fails or is down for maintenance. Pellet stoves require power so if the power is out it will shutdown unlike a fireplace or a wood stove. Good luck and please share your decision making if you feel inclined.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

A high efficiency heatpump system might be a good choice. Some models (Hyper Heat) from Mitsubishi can provide significant heat output even down to some pretty low outside air temperatures (-13F), much better than what heatpumps used to be able to do. These systems also provide air conditioning in the summer, and are availible in multizone systems too.

What is your cost per kilowatthour?

A cheap pellet stove might be a good backup, also for the very cold days.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Think I'd go NG for the convenience. Bio Mass stoves are constant upkeep.

 

[tbear853]

I put my pellet stove in in 1992, it's been great, but I'm 28 years older. When it goes, likely will go gas on same hearth, etc.

 

[zrock]

Depends on what your electricity charge is in your area... I know people with large homes and during the cold months the heat bill is about $300 every 2 months to run a electric furnace... With a electric furnace they are 100% efficient as their is no heat loss up the chimney. I run a pellet stove when im home and up until today have not turned on the furnace darn pellet stove did not light. On the coldest weeks i go through 3 bags a week even less this year as we all have the same days off. Their are lots of good stoves used out their for some great deals.. If i would have had a few extra $$ this year i would have snapped up on them deals and resold... No reason you have to buy new... You should also be able to contact your utility company and see what the usage was for the last few years and get a idea of what you are looking at. Or ask the previous owner to show you previous bills

 

[tlc1976]

At those temperatures I’d want some sort of backup if the power goes out. Kind of hard to heat your house with a generator using electric heat, but you could easily run a pellet stove with a small generator. Or you might be able to tie something in so you could run a gas furnace off the generator.

 

[SidecarFlip]

As reliable as my USSC 6039 is, it will outlast me. All it takes is regular and consistent upkeep, a quality surge protector and some common sense, the last quality seems to be lacking today in a lot of people.

In my situation, my total yearly solid fuel cost is 212 bucks (1 skid of pellets) because my no germ seed corn is free. I now have 7 ton in the bulk bin, and additional 4 ton in supersacks in the barn and an additional 7 ton down the road at the processors I need to go pick up. 18 ton of 10% seed corn is enough for 3 years for me and there will be more. In fact, I run the bags out of the stove 24-7 to attempt to use it at a rate that is maybe close to the rate I get it at. Close maybe... probably not.

I keep the entire house at 72 (with the help of some well placed fans to move the heat around. 2 store 120 year old farmhouse.

Cannot burn it fast enough...

Considering a second one for the shop. Need to peruse the used market I guess.

 

[BrianH]

my no germ seed corn is free. I now have 7 ton in the bulk bin, and additional 4 ton in supersacks in the barn and an additional 7 ton down the road at the processors I need to go pick up. 18 ton of 10% seed corn is enough for 3 years for me and there will be more. In fact, I run the bags out of the stove 24-7 to attempt to use it at a rate that is maybe close to the rate I get it at. Close maybe... probably not.

Cannot burn it fast enough...

I wish you were closer, I'd help you burn some off.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I wish you were closer, I'd help you burn some off.

Clinton, Indiana isn't that far away actually. I'm 16 miles north of Toledo. Problem is, the skids are about 2700 pounds each so it's a trailer or pickup truck load. I can load it if you want some but only by the skid load. 50-55 pound bags. The super sacks weigh about 3000 each. Got it coming out my ears so to speak. have to return the super sacks so that is out.

 

[BrianH]

That's still 5 hours away from me. I appreciate the offer though.

 

[tbear853]

That's still 5 hours away from me. I appreciate the offer though.

Road Trip, and adventure even.

 

[BrianH]

Road Trip, and adventure even.

I wish I had that kind of time. I work 6 days a week and with winter coming on to the homestead and the holidays, it'll be spring before I'll be able to breathe again.

 

[Jumpalot]

I appreciate all the help. It sure gives me something to think about. I got the quotes back yesterday to get gas. I was told $950 for the gas company to set a meter and pull a line to the house, then $850 for the plumber to pull the gas into the house and hook up the furnace, then add in the price of the furnace. For a couple hundred more, I can have a line pulled to my garage as well. Any thoughts on just going ahead and converting to gas?

 

[BrianH]

I guess the best advice I have is look for a used wood furnace. I bought mine for $500 on Craigslist about an hour away from me. I had to fix a few things, but I've got less than $1k in a $4k furnace. I don't know what your gas rates look like, but I ran gas one winter here in West Central Indiana and my bill was over $350 each month. That's almost double what I pay for pellets. I have mine set up with a whole house humidifier and at 72 in the house, I'm roasting. The only other heating fuel that I've found that comes close to the "warm you to the bones" heat that wood provides is fuel oil and those are getting tough to find these days. I guess it's just a matter of preference, but know that when you get into wood burning, you get immersed in the culture of it. It's almost like a hobby.

 

[BrianH]

BTW, I heat 100% with my pellet furnace. I have an electric backup in cases of emergency(like the pellet shortage that plagued my area last winter), but my pellet burner is my main go to.

 

[ABMax24]

I appreciate all the help. It sure gives me something to think about. I got the quotes back yesterday to get gas. I was told $950 for the gas company to set a meter and pull a line to the house, then $850 for the plumber to pull the gas into the house and hook up the furnace, then add in the price of the furnace. For a couple hundred more, I can have a line pulled to my garage as well. Any thoughts on just going ahead and converting to gas?

What's the local cost for natural gas? My thoughts are natural gas is cheaper for energy.

I pay about $8 per thousand cuft for natural gas. Given that I can't afford to even think about heating with pellets, pellets would have to fall to $150/ton to break even with natural gas, right now pellets are a little over $350/ton here.

I supplement my heat with cord wood, but it's also a hobby, I need to get wood for less than $155/cord to break even with natural gas, which I can do cutting and processing my own, but I could never buy it for that price.

Electric is the worst option here, all the above options are cheaper, for me it's consistently 5 times the cost of natural gas for the same unit of heat. Air source heat pumps also aren't an effective option, it's far to cold most of the winter for them to work.

Natural gas is by far the most convenient, and depending on your local pricing probably cheaper as well. The prices you were quoted to setup and install natural gas seem reasonable as well. Also look at home resale value, an essentially maintenances free heating system appeals to a lot of people, the average person doesn't know how to run a wood or pellet stove.

The one thing I suggest with natural gas is spend a little extra and get an efficient furnace, the 90%+ efficient condensing models are best. If you want to get real fancy go multi-stage variable speed, it's nicer having a furnace that basically runs more consistently at low output instead of cycling on and off at full output.

This also brings up the question of how the hot water is heated, it may be worth switching that to natural gas as well.

 

[Jumpalot]

What's the local cost for natural gas? My thoughts are natural gas is cheaper for energy.

I pay about $8 per thousand cuft for natural gas. Given that I can't afford to even think about heating with pellets, pellets would have to fall to $150/ton to break even with natural gas, right now pellets are a little over $350/ton here.

I supplement my heat with cord wood, but it's also a hobby, I need to get wood for less than $155/cord to break even with natural gas, which I can do cutting and processing my own, but I could never buy it for that price.

Electric is the worst option here, all the above options are cheaper, for me it's consistently 5 times the cost of natural gas for the same unit of heat. Air source heat pumps also aren't an effective option, it's far to cold most of the winter for them to work.

Natural gas is by far the most convenient, and depending on your local pricing probably cheaper as well. The prices you were quoted to setup and install natural gas seem reasonable as well. Also look at home resale value, an essentially maintenances free heating system appeals to a lot of people, the average person doesn't know how to run a wood or pellet stove.

The one thing I suggest with natural gas is spend a little extra and get an efficient furnace, the 90%+ efficient condensing models are best. If you want to get real fancy go multi-stage variable speed, it's nicer having a furnace that basically runs more consistently at low output instead of cycling on and off at full output.

This also brings up the question of how the hot water is heated, it may be worth switching that to natural gas as well.

I just looked it up and natural gas is $0.399 per Therm, whatever that means. Hot water heater is electric as well.

 

[ABMax24]

I just looked it up and natural gas is $0.399 per Therm, whatever that means. Hot water heater is electric as well.

A therm is 100,000 BTU, which is roughly equivalent to 100cuft of natural gas. So roughly $4 per thousand cuft.

Just be sure you check on distribution fees, my $8 cost includes those, over half my per cuft cost is made up in distribution fees, transmission fees, and carbon tax.

But if $4 per 1000cuft is your actual cost you would need to see sub $100/ton pellets to even keep pellets in the running.

 

[railfanron]

If I could have natural gas for that the pellet stove would be gone. I have Propane and pellets but with natural gas I would change my fireplace to gas. That would take care of 2 separate heating systems as I'm on stand by power. Don't get me wrong I like wood heat but at my age even moving pellets is a chore.
Ron

 

[Lordtimothy200]

If you are a DIY guy, you can pick up a good used Corn/Pellet stove for 800-1k. Depending on the layout of your house it could only be another few hundred to install it. Then if the power goes out a small inverter generator could keep you in heat. It is nice to have several different sources for heat. While the prices are cheap right now for gas/propane, 5 years down the road it could be drastically different.

You have to pencil out the cost to get where you want to end up.

My house is all electric. It is nice to have the option when the power goes out to crank up the small generator and not worry about frozen pipes or irritating the wife with my complaining it is cold.

 

[bill3rail]

There are other brands that are well below the cost you were quoted.

If you are handy, installation is very simple!

We are extremely happy with our England's Stove Works Pellet burner!

Bill

 

[03Jarhead]

This is the exact reason I installed a pellet stove. I’ve used a heat pump/ electric furnace for the last 7 years at 19.97 cents per kWh. Was tired of huge electric bills in January and February, and was still cold in the house.

 

[UpStateNY]

Short answer I recommend the Condensing gas hot air furnace. The only thing cheaper than natural gas is coal. I would also consider a high efficiency electric heat pump that can operate down to -15F if you also want AC in summer. To compare fuel costs per BTU use this link. Note electric heat pumps operate somewhere around 150% efficiency in 30F degrees or warmer. Seriously research both Condensing gas hot air furnaces and high efficiency electric condensing heat pumps. Get many quotes from HVAC companies in your area. You will get a wide range of prices that very by over 50%. The small HVAC guys that don't advertise and have good recommendtions are usually the best.

Compare Fuel Costs

www.pelletheat.org

(broken link removed to https://www.rbincorporated.com/3-things-to-know-about-condensing-furnaces)

My story,
I purchased a Pellet stove in 2008 when I could get pellets for under $200 a ton. The pellet savings more than paid for the pellet stove. Now that it costs over $300 a ton for quality pellets, I stopped burning my pellet stove. My hot water baseboard fuel oil boiler died a few years ago. I replaced it with Propane boiler with on demand domestic hot water. No hot water tank to heat when you are not using domestic hot water. My new Navien Condensing Combi-Boilersen boiler takes up little space and hangs on my wall. The old fuel oil boiler and 250 gallon tank in garage were removed giving more space. I pay $1.45 a gallon of propane.

This summer I got a little crazy. My electric company was offering a huge rebate. This summer I had my friend in HVAC business install two Fujitsui 24K BTU multi head compressors with 5 heads. I am still trying to get my $6500 rebate check from electric company. I should get it soon. Now I got air conditioning for the entire house which was amazingly cheap to cool the entire house this summer. Wife is very happy. Now I am running the electric heat pumps and comparing cost to running Propane boiler. At 15 cents a Kwh here, the heat pumps are VERY competitive. When outside temp is 30F or warmer I am using the electric heat pump compressors. One thing for sure. Both propane boiler and electric heat pumps are cheaper than $300 a ton Pellets. It’s a little confusing having three sources of heat. I will figure this out this winter.