Pellet stove losing heat through the vent

[msinnes]

I am new here and am hoping for some ideas as to what is wrong with our pellet stove.
My husband and I purchased, (and had installed by a certified WETT technician), a Pelpro Home Heater 120. This is not our only source of heat (we also have electric baseboard). Our home is a 4 level side split with each level measuring 650sq feet. We had the stove installed in the very bottom basement level (8' concrete foundation walls all around). Our plan was to have the pellet stove heat that level, the next basement level and the heat would rise through the floor to the main living level (kitchen/diningroom and livingroom). We are not concerned with the stove heating the very top level of the house.
Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove to heat the house. Last winter it melted a huge spot in the snow where the vent comes out of the house and even burned some of the grass underneath (now in the Fall you can still see the spot on the grass).
The vent kit we used is a 3" insulated kit we purchased from Home Depot (where we also purchased the stove).

Any and all advice welcomed!

(My Dad can't figure out what's wrong with it because his large Quadrafire - with 4" venting kit - is cool to the touch on the outside vent even when the stove is burning at full capacity).

Thank you!

 

[Souzafone]

A pellet stove in the basement is a poor way to heat, the stove will work hard to heat the walls which doesn't help heat the air in the house. Regardless, the vent pipe should not be hot. What does this stove use as a heat exchanger, and has it and any covers, been cleaned? Is the heat exchanger broken, or not seated properly?

 

[imacman]

As Souzafone mentions, putting a stove n the basement (ESPECIALLY a non-insulated, non-finished one) is about the worst way to try to heat the rest of the house. You are basically burning pellets to warm the concrete walls of the basement, and that's about it.

To heat the upstairs, you need to PUT THE STOVE UPSTAIRS in the area you want to heat..

As for the hot exhaust melting the snow, how far is the outlet above the ground, and is it pointed down?

Not sure what you mean by pipe is "hot"....that is subjective. My Englander pipe is hot, but I get great heat from the stove.

BTW, this is direct from the PelPro website:

"Ready to heat your family room or cottage"

Even the manufacturer admits it won't heat a very big space.

 

[jtakeman]

(My Dad can't figure out what's wrong with it because his large Quadrafire - with 4" venting kit - is cool to the touch on the outside vent even when the stove is burning at full capacity).

This has to do with stove efficiency. The more efficient the heat exchanger on the stove is the less heat is lost out the vent. If the heat exchanger transfers the heat into the room/Exhaust is cooler. If the heat exchanger can't remove the heat out the exhaust it goes!

Sounds like the pelpro doesn't have that great of an efficiency numbers. But look at the cost difference from one to the other. You kind of get what you pay for these days. Spend less and get less as they say.

good luck
jay

 

[msinnes]

Thanks for the quick replies!

We know that the basement wasn't the best location for the stove but we didn't want to put it in the main part of the house (mostly because of lack of space for it combined with esthetics - the House Heater isn't pretty in any way!). We are getting some heat from it where it is and know we are losing a lot through the foundation walls (we plan on insulating eventually). We don't believe that the vent should be so hot though. It gets so hot you can't touch it and would burn yourself if you did.
The vent is pointed down towards the ground and is probably 2' off the ground. My father's vent is about the same height from the ground and his doesn't get hot at all and he has a larger stove (he has a Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 but uses a 4" vent).
I have contacted Pel-Pro and they suggested making some adjustments (with instructions in the manual). We did that and are still losing a large amount of heat through the outside vent.

 

[msinnes]

Thanks jtakeman! Yes there is quite a difference in the cost. We paid $1300 CDN for the stove we have and the Quadra-Fire stoves are quite a bit more than that. Unfortunately we didn't have a huge budget for the pellet stove so wanted to get something to help us cut the costs of the electric heat. Guess we'll have to live with it!
Your answer was what I was looking for -

This has to do with stove efficiency. The more efficient the heat exchanger on the stove is the less heat is lost out the vent. If the heat exchanger transfers the heat into the room/Exhaust is cooler. If the heat exchanger can’t remove the heat out the exhaust it goes!

 

[TboneMan]

Based on your description, I'm not sure if you have a problem or you need more information about how the stoves work.

Pellets burn, and the product of the combustion is heat and some very small amount of particulate matter (smoke) and some other th. Smoke should only really be seen at start up when combustion is not as complete as it is when running fully.

As significant amount of the heat generated is used to raise the temperature of the heat exchanging tubes. A fan blows air over these tubes. The heat is then transferred to the air being blown over the tubes. This air then heats the air is your space. Convection currents circulate and mix the air.

Here's the important part---

Any heat from combustion not used in raising the temperature of the tubes or other internal components of the stove are then exhausted out the vent pipe. These gases will indeed be very hot, and yes, I would expect them to melt snow and a single wall pipe to be very hot to the touch (so is boiling water).

I think we'd all like to add a heat recovery system to our stoves that captures some of this excess heat and put it to good use.

 

[slls]

Thanks for the quick replies!

We know that the basement wasn't the best location for the stove but we didn't want to put it in the main part of the house (mostly because of lack of space for it combined with esthetics - the House Heater isn't pretty in any way!). We are getting some heat from it where it is and know we are losing a lot through the foundation walls (we plan on insulating eventually). We don't believe that the vent should be so hot though. It gets so hot you can't touch it and would burn yourself if you did.
The vent is pointed down towards the ground and is probably 2' off the ground. My father's vent is about the same height from the ground and his doesn't get hot at all and he has a larger stove (he has a Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 but uses a 4" vent).
I have contacted Pel-Pro and they suggested making some adjustments (with instructions in the manual). We did that and are still losing a large amount of heat through the outside vent.

The 1200 is a very efficient, mine on med and high fan, I can hold my hand on the vent pipe 9 inches from the stove and leave it there. It will heat my home no problem, my stove is in the living area.

 

[imacman]

.....and a single wall pipe to be very hot to the touch.....

TBone, they have regular insulated pellet stove pipe (Duravent probably):

"the vent kit we used is a 3” insulated kit we purchased from Home Depot"

 

[GVA]

How old is it?
what kinda air velocity is coming out the stoves vents?
Outside air kit installed?
how does the flame look when its running? is it strong, lazy, fluttering etc???
Describe the entire way the stove is vented from inside out.

The pipe can get hot, but I think you're not pulling heat off the exchanger. Either a plugged distribution fan or not running at speed.
But we gotta start with the basics

 

[pastera]

How is the air on the stove adjusted? If you supply too much air to the burn pot, the residence time in hte heat exchanger area will be too short and the exhaust will be hot. You will also get the combustion temp up high enough to clinker even the best fuels.

Also, if you are running the stove at max to heat an uninsulated space, the stove will not reach its rated efficiency and will push half the heat outside.


I have a Traditions stove and it runs most efficient at low feed rate and high blower - you can rest your hand on the exhaust. If I run it on high feed you cant touch the exhaust.

Aaron

 

[MCPO]

OK , It`s a pellet stove and what it cost compared to a Quadrafire or the fact it is in the basement (not the best place for it) has little to do with the heat output . It should be pumping out plenty of heat regardless of how little heat actually gets upstairs.
Since it has happened before , the first thing I`d check is if the heat distrubution fan is working and if so it should be blowing plenty of air out the front, especially on high. It should come on after the stove gets warmed up enough to heat the heat exchanger.
Of course this is assuming the flame/fire looks normal and the stove seems to be burning OK..
What leads me to ask this was your statement below:

"Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove"

 

[jtakeman]

OK , It`s a pellet stove and what it cost compared to a Quadrafire or the fact it is in the basement (not the best place for it) has little to do with the heat output . It should be pumping out plenty of heat regardless of how little heat actually gets upstairs.
Since it has happened before , the first thing I`d check is if the heat distrubution fan is working and if so it should be blowing plenty of air out the front, especially on high. It should come on after the stove gets warmed up enough to heat the heat exchanger.
Of course this is assuming the flame/fire looks normal and the stove seems to be burning OK..
What leads me to ask this was your statement below:

"Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove"

Not all stoves are created equal! period!

 

[MCPO]

OK , It`s a pellet stove and what it cost compared to a Quadrafire or the fact it is in the basement (not the best place for it) has little to do with the heat output . It should be pumping out plenty of heat regardless of how little heat actually gets upstairs.
Since it has happened before , the first thing I`d check is if the heat distrubution fan is working and if so it should be blowing plenty of air out the front, especially on high. It should come on after the stove gets warmed up enough to heat the heat exchanger.
Of course this is assuming the flame/fire looks normal and the stove seems to be burning OK..
What leads me to ask this was your statement below:

"Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove"

Not all stoves are greated equal! period!

I think you meant "created". That`s very true , but I believe they are all made to throw heat. Obviously some do it better but aren`t we just trying to determine if hers actually has a problem rather than comparing it to one that cost twice as much?
One thing for sure if that basement is not insulated it`s easy to understand why little if any heat gets upstairs.

 

[jtakeman]

OK , It`s a pellet stove and what it cost compared to a Quadrafire or the fact it is in the basement (not the best place for it) has little to do with the heat output . It should be pumping out plenty of heat regardless of how little heat actually gets upstairs.
Since it has happened before , the first thing I`d check is if the heat distrubution fan is working and if so it should be blowing plenty of air out the front, especially on high. It should come on after the stove gets warmed up enough to heat the heat exchanger.
Of course this is assuming the flame/fire looks normal and the stove seems to be burning OK..
What leads me to ask this was your statement below:

"Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove"

Not all stoves are created equal! period!

I think you meant "created". That`s very true , but I believe they are all made to throw heat. Obviously some do it better but aren`t we just trying to determine if hers actually has a problem rather than comparing it to one that cost twice as much?
One thing for sure if that basement is not insulated it`s easy to understand why little if any heat gets upstairs.

Ya I can't spell!

Here what I got from the post "Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove" If the convection blower is operational. One would assume the heat exchanger efficiency is not up to snuff. Don't expect a Geo to perform like a Lexus! And you miss spelled "distrubution" its distribution. smarty pants'

jay

 

[MCPO]

OK , It`s a pellet stove and what it cost compared to a Quadrafire or the fact it is in the basement (not the best place for it) has little to do with the heat output . It should be pumping out plenty of heat regardless of how little heat actually gets upstairs.
Since it has happened before , the first thing I`d check is if the heat distrubution fan is working and if so it should be blowing plenty of air out the front, especially on high. It should come on after the stove gets warmed up enough to heat the heat exchanger.
Of course this is assuming the flame/fire looks normal and the stove seems to be burning OK..
What leads me to ask this was your statement below:

"Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove"

Not all stoves are created equal! period!

I think you meant "created". That`s very true , but I believe they are all made to throw heat. Obviously some do it better but aren`t we just trying to determine if hers actually has a problem rather than comparing it to one that cost twice as much?
One thing for sure if that basement is not insulated it`s easy to understand why little if any heat gets upstairs.

Ya I can't spell!

Here what I got from the post "Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove" If the convection blower is operational. One would assume the heat exchanger efficiency is not up to snuff. Don't expect a Geo to perform like a Lexus! And you miss spelled "distrubution" its distribution. smarty pants'

jay

Touche!

Sorry you it took it as me criticising your spelling or coming across as a smart ass. That wasn`t my intention. Yeah, It might be a Geo but it should still get her to point A even for $1,300.
What I find puzzling is why you are trying so hard to belittle someones stove . The OP understands what more money buys .
In this case It seems rather obvious the problem lies in greater part to it being installed in an uninsulated basement rather than stove efficiency.

 

[jtakeman]

OK , It`s a pellet stove and what it cost compared to a Quadrafire or the fact it is in the basement (not the best place for it) has little to do with the heat output . It should be pumping out plenty of heat regardless of how little heat actually gets upstairs.
Since it has happened before , the first thing I`d check is if the heat distrubution fan is working and if so it should be blowing plenty of air out the front, especially on high. It should come on after the stove gets warmed up enough to heat the heat exchanger.
Of course this is assuming the flame/fire looks normal and the stove seems to be burning OK..
What leads me to ask this was your statement below:

"Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove"

Not all stoves are created equal! period!

I think you meant "created". That`s very true , but I believe they are all made to throw heat. Obviously some do it better but aren`t we just trying to determine if hers actually has a problem rather than comparing it to one that cost twice as much?
One thing for sure if that basement is not insulated it`s easy to understand why little if any heat gets upstairs.

Ya I can't spell!

Here what I got from the post "Our problem is that the stove seems to be losing more heat through the vent (outside) than it is out of the front of the stove" If the convection blower is operational. One would assume the heat exchanger efficiency is not up to snuff. Don't expect a Geo to perform like a Lexus! And you miss spelled "distrubution" its distribution. smarty pants'

jay

Touche!

Sorry you it took it as me criticising your spelling or coming across as a smart ass. That wasn`t my intention. Yeah, It might be a Geo but it should still get her to point A even for $1,300.
What I find puzzling is why you are trying so hard to belittle someones stove . The OP understands what more money buys .
In this case It seems rather obvious the problem lies in greater part to it being installed in an uninsulated basement rather than stove efficiency.

I don't think your a smart ass ( just a smarty pants ;-P ), And I am not trying to degrade her stove. I guess I over stated "Basically you get what you pay for" Don't even try to compare this stove to a high dollar most likely more effecient stove. That is all I meant. But If the stove has more heat going up the stack how you can't expect it to do much in that basement install. Basement installs are tough with a great stove!

Carry on

jay