Performance of Enviro 1700 Insert

[gazerbeam06070]

Having a little debate with the better half on the performance of our Enviro Venice 1700 insert and want to solicit some feedback. I suspect the dimensions and aspects of our home are a bit beyond what this unit can satisfy alone.

Some specifics - we have a 2700 sf "contemporary colonial" in central CT, with very high ceilings on each end (24'). Three zones for oil HW baseboard (#1 Front of house, #2 Family Room at back of the house and #3 Bedrooms Upstairs) and a 4th electric zone in a loft area (which is never turned on).

The house was built in 1984 and the windows are in good shape and double pane, pretty good insulation in the attic as well, but there is a TON of windows in the back. Also we have 4 skylights. The fireplace is at the front end of the house, not in the center.

I target ~550 degrees on the insert as measured on the glass of the door so not to over fire. Fan runs at the highest level. Zone #1, near the insert, never kicks in. Zone #3, upstarts, I keep at 64 degrees. When the outside temp hits the low 20's, the thermostat starts calling for oil heat.

Given the vast volume of the interior, I am not surprised the oil is kicking in. I know the spec sheet rates the unit at 3000 sf but I think that is a hero number under perfect conditions, which we don't have. For the record I was not expecting the unit to eliminate oil consumption, simply reduce it.

Very interested in comments, and feedback. Maybe I'm doing something wrong and will learn something!

 

[begreen]

Is this the Kodiak or Boston? Does the insert have an insulated blockoff plate in the damper area of the fireplace?

It's a good heater, but the volume of the space is exceptionally high due to the high peaked ceilings. It would not surprise me if the temp at the peaks inside is pushing 100º. Are there ceiling fans running? If yes, are they running in reverse?

Note, the temp should not be measured off the glass. Measure it in the corners, right above the door.

 

[gazerbeam06070]

It’s the Venice Model. I don’t know if they installed a block off plate. How much does that impact efficiency of the unit?
Temps are no where near 100 at the peak and no ceiling fans are running.


It's a good heater, but the volume of the space is exceptionally high due to the high peaked ceilings. It would not surprise me if the temp at the peaks inside is pushing 100º. Are there ceiling fans running? If yes, are they running in reverse?

Note, the temp should not be measured off the glass. Measure it in the corners, right above the door.
[/QUOTE]

Is this the Kodiak or Boston? Does the insert have an insulated blockoff plate in the damper area of the fireplace?

It's a good heater, but the volume of the space is exceptionally high due to the high peaked ceilings. It would not surprise me if the temp at the peaks inside is pushing 100º. Are there ceiling fans running? If yes, are they running in reverse?

Note, the temp should not be measured off the glass. Measure it in the corners, right above the door.

Is this the Kodiak or Boston? Does the insert have an insulated blockoff plate in the damper area of the fireplace?

It's a good heater, but the volume of the space is exceptionally high due to the high peaked ceilings. It would not surprise me if the temp at the peaks inside is pushing 100º. Are there ceiling fans running? If yes, are they running in reverse?

Note, the temp should not be measured off the glass. Measure it in the corners, right above the door.

 

[begreen]

A blockoff plate can make a large difference in the heat output of the insert if it is installed in an exterior wall fireplace. Without one, a lot of heat is wasted to outdoors. A bit of insulated behind the insert, if there is room, also helps.

The 3000 sq ft rating for the stove is optimistic, but possible for the volume of a well-insulated, 8 ft ceiling home in the Pac NW. A house with 3 times the volume of air to heat in New England is a different matter. I am surprised that there is not heat pocketing at the peaks. 100º might be an exaggeration, but it is not uncommon for that area to be very hot when the room temp at seating level is 72º. Have you measured it at the peak when the insert is burning? Ceiling fans help quite a bit at getting this trapped hot air to convect better down to the floor level.

 

[gazerbeam06070]

Have not measured the heat difference but just walking upstairs tells it’s not a lot. I’ll try to measure this week and share.

when you say a large difference with a block off plate can you guess a range? 10%, 25% Of the heat is lost?

 

[begreen]

This is going to depend on how they installed the Venice. Some installers pack kaowool or roxul insulation around the liner in the damper area. That helps a bit. If there is nothing then you can expect a notable improvement.

I can't recall anyone providing exact before and after metrics by which this could be quantified. We have had folks here ready to sell their insert due to insufficient heating that reported back that after putting in an insulated block off plate they saw a dramatic improvement and now love their insert.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Here’s a link to a page that expands a bit upon what Begreen alluded to earlier about square footage and cubic footage. I thought it might be helpful for you or your better half. The part I’m specifically referring to comes right below the chart. If the link doesn’t work, it’s the wood stove comparison chart page at The Chimney Sweep Online. Lots of good reading material there.

(broken link removed)

We’re actually waiting for a quote on a Venice 1700 Insert for our fireplace down here in Texas. We have a pretty large house with lots of cubic footage and way too many windows. It does make heating a challenge. (Our heating load pales in comparison to air conditioning, of course.). We have been helped by using interior window inserts that cut down on air infiltration, improving weatherstripping on doors, and, surprisingly, by adding foam gaskets around outlet and switch plates.

I think your own first message shows that the Venice provides some valuable BTU’s since the zoned heating doesn’t come on in that space. I don’t think it will ever cover all your space given your vaulted ceilings and climate, but it might be worth investigating if you’ve got areas of air infiltration with your tons of windows in the back or skylights. We had an energy audit done, but I’ve learned a lot myself with just an inexpensive infrared thermometer.

I also wonder if you’re not pushing the insert hard enough because of a worry about overfiring it. What are the temperatures in the stove room? Is that one of the 24 foot vaults? Do you have an IR gun to see where the heat goes?

 

[gazerbeam06070]

Here’s a link to a page that expands a bit upon what Begreen alluded to earlier about square footage and cubic footage. I thought it might be helpful for you or your better half. The part I’m specifically referring to comes right below the chart. If the link doesn’t work, it’s the wood stove comparison chart page at The Chimney Sweep Online. Lots of good reading material there.

(broken link removed)

We’re actually waiting for a quote on a Venice 1700 Insert for our fireplace down here in Texas. We have a pretty large house with lots of cubic footage and way too many windows. It does make heating a challenge. (Our heating load pales in comparison to air conditioning, of course.). We have been helped by using interior window inserts that cut down on air infiltration, improving weatherstripping on doors, and, surprisingly, by adding foam gaskets around outlet and switch plates.

I think your own first message shows that the Venice provides some valuable BTU’s since the zoned heating doesn’t come on in that space. I don’t think it will ever cover all your space given your vaulted ceilings and climate, but it might be worth investigating if you’ve got areas of air infiltration with your tons of windows in the back or skylights. We had an energy audit done, but I’ve learned a lot myself with just an inexpensive infrared thermometer.

I also wonder if you’re not pushing the insert hard enough because of a worry about overfiring it. What are the temperatures in the stove room? Is that one of the 24 foot vaults? Do you have an IR gun to see where the heat goes?

Here’s a link to a page that expands a bit upon what Begreen alluded to earlier about square footage and cubic footage. I thought it might be helpful for you or your better half. The part I’m specifically referring to comes right below the chart. If the link doesn’t work, it’s the wood stove comparison chart page at The Chimney Sweep Online. Lots of good reading material there.

(broken link removed)

We’re actually waiting for a quote on a Venice 1700 Insert for our fireplace down here in Texas. We have a pretty large house with lots of cubic footage and way too many windows. It does make heating a challenge. (Our heating load pales in comparison to air conditioning, of course.). We have been helped by using interior window inserts that cut down on air infiltration, improving weatherstripping on doors, and, surprisingly, by adding foam gaskets around outlet and switch plates.

I think your own first message shows that the Venice provides some valuable BTU’s since the zoned heating doesn’t come on in that space. I don’t think it will ever cover all your space given your vaulted ceilings and climate, but it might be worth investigating if you’ve got areas of air infiltration with your tons of windows in the back or skylights. We had an energy audit done, but I’ve learned a lot myself with just an inexpensive infrared thermometer.

I also wonder if you’re not pushing the insert hard enough because of a worry about overfiring it. What are the temperatures in the stove room? Is that one of the 24 foot vaults? Do you have an IR gun to see where the heat goes?

Yea I have read so much about over firing I may be holding the stove back. I need to explore more the proper way to monitor that.

Tonight I got the thing roaring and the room got toasty. But it’s warmed to about 35 outside. The problem shows when the temp drops to low 20’s or teens, which will be a lot here in CT this winter.

The insert is in a room with a 24’ ceiling and there is some heat accumulation at the top according to my IR gun. A fan did help a bit.

I’m surprised no one ask about my wood moisture content. That’s good too -10/15%.


Weather has warmed up so meaning testing will be delayed. I’ll come back in a week or so with more detail.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

What exactly is “the problem” you experience? Just not enough heat?

Here’s a link where some Enviro owners talked about their stoves in recent years. There’s some good information in there.

Enviro Wood Stoves

I just bought an Enviro Boston 1700. It’s my first wood stove, so I am a complete newbie. Despite being new to wood stoves, our wood stove experiment has been going well so far, due to the help we’ve received on this forum. While I was researching different stoves, I found several running...

www.hearth.com

I thought I’d also ping @illini81 , @NoGoodAtScreenNames , and @saewoody because they own this brand and can perhaps assist you in best running your stove.

 

[gazerbeam06070]

Thanks for the link. Good info there. “The problem” may be I just don’t know what I don’t know yet! Already found comments on the thread very similar to my issue. It’s a big house.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

I thought I’d also ping @illini81 , @NoGoodAtScreenNames , and @saewoody because they own this brand and can perhaps assist you in best running your stove.

This is the closest to fame I will ever come.


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[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

I have similar size house in square feet with the insert on one far end but right near the stairs the second floor. You’ve got me beat by the cubic feet by a lot though - I’m just 8 feet ceilings throughout.

The inserts room is upper 70s and the rest of the house is usually a comfortable mid 60s. I close off unused rooms upstairs during the day to help reduce my heating area.

Get a block off plate and until then always have the fan running at pretty good rate. If I want to maximize heating the fan is on moderate high for the first hour or two, then low and then off for a bit. During a low burn after the peak the fan mostly controls whether the heat comes out the front by the blower or naturally up behind the surround on the top - so I just turn it off.

Sounds like you have an IR gun thermometer. Instead of pointing it at the glass point it into the air outlet at the collar. Even better would be to install Auber probe while doing your block off plate.

Sounds like you’re off to a good start though. Good luck.


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[gazerbeam06070]

A blockoff plate can make a large difference in the heat output of the insert if it is installed in an exterior wall fireplace. Without one, a lot of heat is wasted to outdoors. A bit of insulated behind the insert, if there is room, also helps.

The 3000 sq ft rating for the stove is optimistic, but possible for the volume of a well-insulated, 8 ft ceiling home in the Pac NW. A house with 3 times the volume of air to heat in New England is a different matter. I am surprised that there is not heat pocketing at the peaks. 100º might be an exaggeration, but it is not uncommon for that area to be very hot when the room temp at seating level is 72º. Have you measured it at the peak when the insert is burning? Ceiling fans help quite a bit at getting this trapped hot air to convect better down to the floor level.

Looking at the manual for the Enviro Venice 1700 it shows installation with either a SS line (which I have) or a block off plate. The way the manual is written implies the 2 are mutually exclusive??

 

[begreen]

Looking at the manual for the Enviro Venice 1700 it shows installation with either a SS line (which I have) or a block off plate. The way the manual is written implies the 2 are mutually exclusive??

No, not at all. What you are looking at is the difference between a direct connect in which a short piece of liner goes above the damper area and a full liner. The first one must have a block-off plate. A full liner doesn't have to have one, but it is strongly recommended for a full liner if the fireplace is on an exterior wall.

 

[gazerbeam06070]

Ok thanks. Does retrofitting a block off plate into my system require a different style of liner or can the same liner connection be modified to work with a block off plate?

Also is seems (to the novice here) that stuffing a bunch of fireproof insulation in there would accomplish the same effect?

 

[blackx-runner]

I think you've figured it out. It can heat 3000 sq ft, but under the right conditions. Unfortunately your big open space isn't the ideal condition.

I've got the same stove, but a much different floor plan and it does very well heating my entire home. Mine is in the finished basement of a ranch home. ~1300sq ft main level. Big stone fireplace on an interior wall with the stairs pretty much right beside it. Bedrooms right above the stove room down the hall from the stairway. I get a pretty good convection up the stairs. I'm still playing with burns and less than ideal wood, but we've been down into the teens and low 20s at night and below freezing during the day and I can heat the house without working the stove too hard. 78 -80 in the stove room and 70-72 through the rest of the house.
I've actually been considering getting a couple of level to level fans and dumping the cooler bedroom air down right into the far end of the stove room. I'm thinking that should really kick up the convection loop and keep temps a little more even throughout.

 

[davidlafollette57]

Need to get you a heat gun see what the temperature is at clothes and then the farthest distance and everything in between you might have to have more fans by fans don't know for sure don't know how your house is laid out how many walls how well it's insulated is brick on the outside vinyl siding Woods all that goes into factor to your floors insulated is your attic insulated properly I'll let you got to take in consideration then you got to take all that into consideration that since you don't just waste your time I did construction 25 years remodeling you need double check everything did I mention and make sure you got the proper windows in and the proper doors in and they sell good Stone windows don't work until you that now they were out get you some double pane tinted glass low E glass that will keep the heat in a lot better

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[davidlafollette57]

David Lafollette


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