Picked up used Englander 25 PDVE pellet stove, have some questions

Battleman13 Posted By Battleman13, Sep 4, 2018 at 6:08 PM

  1. Battleman13

    Battleman13
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    Sep 4, 2018
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    Hey all!

    I just bought my first pellet stove for my basement. I am a little familiar with them, as my parents purchased a Englander PDVC back in about 2007 or 2008. I used to manually start the stove, clean it (basic) and refill the hopper.

    So as a new home owner myself as of the fall of 2016, I decided I needed to do something about my unheated basement and possibly help take some of the load off of the oil heat furnace. This is where I found a used PDVE. Looks a bit rough, but I think it is well worth the $200 I paid for it. It even came with a basically complete 3" vent kit including wall thimble.

    The stove was sold as non operational. They claimed they used it last winter and towards the end of the season they "couldn't keep it running". Didn't give much other info. So I took the 30 min ride over with a buddy and loaded it into my pickup.

    I get it home, wrestle it into the basement and left it there for a few days. I finally had a chance to look at it two days ago. From what I can see, the real reason they probably couldn't get it to stay running is a wire pulled out of the back of the igniter. I don't know if they tried to manually fire it or not. If they didn't... could be a real easy fix!

    However, I've noticed some other things that may need addressing. The vac hoses (aside from not being hooked up in the proper places) are cracked towards the ends in some places. The vac hose that attaches to the nipple coming out of the exhaust tube right behind the fire box has some pretty decent cracks about an inch long. The vac hose that is supposed to attach back near the combustion blower is not attached, and instead they have the hose going from white port to black port on that same vac switch... I know that isn't right. One of the leads is disconnected from that same vac switch on the control panel side.

    So my main question is.... how should the vac lines all be hooked up? I just want to be sure they are all connected in the proper places. I will inspect and might just replace all those hoses, once I know the proper connection points for both vac switches.

    How many vac hoses coming out of each switch and where are they running too? I assume they come out of the "white" ports on the switch and not the black ones.

    As an "extra question" I've seen reference to cutting your own gaskets out of lytherm? Does anyone have any templates? Any particular gaskets (other than like the hopper and door gaskets) that you don't do this with? Favorite sellers?

    Thanks in advance!
     
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  2. Battleman13

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    Nothing?
     
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  3. Don2222

    Don2222
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    Hello
    A cracked high temp silicone vac hose is very common on those stoves. it must be replaced with the OEM Englander Vacuum hose because of the high temperatures. Download the owner’s manual just google 25-PDVE or 25-PDV Manual , essentially the same Stove and see the wire diagram. The exhaust blower should be cleaned and the 6” round Lytherm gasket replaced. The fire door gasket 3/4” round rope gasket should also be replaced. Easy to find on the Internet.
     
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  4. Battleman13

    Battleman13
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    Thank you for the reply. So far I haven't gotten a really "great" look at the hoses, but from what I see it is just some cracking around the very ends. I should be able to cut it off and "recrimp" the wire to the nipples. If I have a crack elsewhere in the middles of the hoses, I'll just order the OEM ones.

    Are there no other high temp silicone vac hoses available? I tend to think the OEM ones from Englander would be priced a bit high?

    As far as the gaskets, I figured it would probably be necessary to replace most if not all of them. Most of them are cheap enough, and the door seal kit is fairly cheap. I can probably do the whole kit and caboodle for under $100 it would seem.

    Before I go to crazy with that I want to double check that both blowers work, the control panel works and that the augers are working.


    I did read on here recently that Englader is no longer providing replacement E-Proms for the control panel? That's a bit of a bummer. If my control panel does need work, and it's not a triac... then I'm pretty much roped into buying a new panel. Too bad there isn't some dumps of these chips, could just program our own then.


    I start cleaning it out here soon, take out the blowers and clean them real well, clean the inside of the unit well, blow out the vent pipe and give it a test spin. I might even get a bit ambitious and sand the top of it down and re paint it. It has some "hand print" shaped surface rust spots on it. Doesn't hurt anything, but isn't pretty to look at either.

    I found a suitable replacement motor for the convection blower, $50 shipped... not bad. If I need one, I'm good there. Does anyone know the replacement motor for the combustion blower?

    I also see in some pictures of the replacement combustion blowers, a red sorta "RTV sealant" applied to the vent pipe adapter where it mates to the blower housing. Is that just high temp RTV gasket maker? This one was sealed up using some "foil tape".
     
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  5. Battleman13

    Battleman13
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    Sep 4, 2018
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    I have a few more questions, that I'll post first. Following the questions will be the results of me tinkering with the stove today.

    1) Is it ok to cut your own gaskets out of high temp silicone? I need at least two auger bearing gaskets and will likely need both a convection and combustion gasket. Seems like it would be a lot cheaper? The two auger gaskets alone will probably cost me $20+ with shipping. I can probably cut everything I need for less than that. I wonder if the silicone gaskets would be ok in place of the "new style" bearing gaskets that actually go all the way up to the auger shaft and not just around the outside?

    It's slightly less likely, but I may also replace both the door gasket and the hopper lid gasket. Does everyone just use the "rope style" gaskets for both. The hopper gaskets looks like a rope style to me, just a really thin flat one.

    2) I saw a post reference some instructions to "pimp your auger motor" but the links no longer work. I ask this because I may need to replace these soon. They are likely the original auger motors in the machine, and may not work once I get everything up and running and try to run them with pellets in the feed tubes. I hope they do, but I'm preparing for the event in which they don't.

    I saw mention of using some Gleason Avery A901 motors that were supposed to be much better. It was an old post, suggesting replacements could be had for about $40. Well the cheapest I could find this auger was about $80 each. Is there an affordable replacement? Should I replace them with OEM replacements?

    3) Anyone have a part number for the exhaust (combustion) blower motor? I'd like to not replace the whole things if avoidable because of cost.


    4) There was some "foil backed insulation" between the exhaust chamber and the feeding tube system / air intake tube. It's in pieces / shredded / really old. What can / do I replace it with. I'm assuming the foil tape is necessary. Should it be foil on both sides? If not, which way does the foil face orient?




    So I spent some time with the unit today, probably about an hour and a half to two hours.

    I started off by cleaning it pretty well. Hit everything I could reach with a smaller shop vac both in the front and back of the unit. Unit is missing back door so access is pretty easy. I then cleaned the hopper full of pellets out (that made this lovely beast well over 400 pounds to lift into my truck instead of just 375). Pretty dirty inside. Took a good ten min to really knock everything down and clean it.

    I then disconnected the ignitor since one wire was pulled loose and disconnected the other wire left that was connected.

    I pulled the one lead from the vac switch by the exhaust blower back into the control board and took the vac hose plugged into the black port and connected it to the channel on the exhaust blower where the nipple is.

    Then I tried to dry fire the machine. When I first plug it in, the unit shows 1 1 on the top two read outs. When I hit ON it goes to "S U" so that's good. At first the motors seemed to be "trying" to move the augers by they weren't moving. Bottom one not at all, top one just a teeny bit intermittently (which is normal I've heard). I let the machine go for about 20 min... and it gave an E2 code which I think is normal since I didn't actually fire the stove. It shut down which is good.


    So I did a voltage test and I get just about 121 V across the terminals on both auger motors so good power. Figured motors may be scrap but the machine did need cleaning so I decided to remove the motors and the augers entirely. Boy was I not "good" at doing that the first time around. I tried taking the flange bolts out first... which I thought I "had" to do because at first I didn't even realize I should be taking out the set screw. By the time I did realize it (couldn't get two of the four bolts out), the set screw was at the 90 degree position (bottom of motor) making it impossible. Later it dawned on me I could turn the machine on, apply power, and let the screw rotate back up top... but instead I position the motor enough to get the 4 bolts out and pulled it out in one piece on top.

    The bottom I was able to remove the set screw, pull the motor off, then easily get the 4 bolts with my socket and ratchet and pull that all out. Both tubes were FULL of pellets. The auger bearings seem to be fine, it looks like they were greased at least within the last 2 to 3 years... they move freely and seem decent. Augers themselves seem to be in decent condition. No real "gasket" of any kind. Just this really thin type of "fibrous" material covering only the very edges. The gasket I've seen in the auger adjustment video looks a lot different... a full plate that essentially keeps the shaft positioned and not just a fibrous perimeter gasket. My stove was made middle of 04, yet the gasket seems to be a "old style" gasket.

    The auger motor housing, the bearing house, the bearings, all of it pretty much is "dirty". What can I clean it with? I know later I'll need to pump that grease fitting full of nice red grease... but I'd like to clean everything up and don't want to use the wrong thing. I did swap the top and bottom augers. Still haven't got to fully put the top one back in yet (daughter was screaming from her crib) but when reinstalled the bottom auger was turning nicely (no pellets). I still need to put the top auger system back in and then test it.

    I did notice that it looks like the top auger has been apart before. I say this because there were two sets of "score marks" from the set screw in the shaft of the top auger motor. Might have been done at the factory when the stove was put together, but someone might have been in here before. I know the stove was worked on at least once or twice before... and some of the repairs weren't so well done. I know this because my exhaust blower is "clamped" on at the top with a pair of vice grips. Looks like they lost a screw, and figure this was better? I will address that, but it lets me know someone was tinkering. The vac switch by the blower also has a missing screw.

    The exhaust blower is LOUD / makes a lot of vibrations. Almost looks as if it's not the correct blower (or motor at least) and the housing is missing? I'd rather not spend $150+ on an exhaust blower... but I'm thinking replacing the motor is at least necessary?

    The room air blower had a ton of fuzz and junk sucked up against the inside of it, the side towards the augers. I'm going to remove both and take them outside and hit them with the air compressor.
     
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  6. BUBIBEAR

    BUBIBEAR
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    Oct 18, 2010
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    IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO SAVE MONEY . Do not use cheap replacement parts , Also do your self a favor call England stove works .They will answer all those questions for you .It cost money to save money .
     
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  7. Don2222

    Don2222
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    Hello

    Grease your auger bearings see pics here
    https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/survey-englander-grease-those-bearings-see-pics-how-often-do-you-apply-the-red-stuff.141830/#post-1911109

    I would only use the OEM auger bearing gaskets and the OEM thick wall high temp silicone vacuum hose, they are both fairly cheap.
    The new gleason avery S901R Auger Motors are the very best for your stove. S means the new Needle Bearings and R is reverse direction which your stove needs.
    The exhaust blower motor takes a very hi temp white gasket 1,000 Degs for the motor hub and the Convection blower can use the flat rope gasket or the high temp silicone gasket which is better for reducing vibration noise.

    Clean your augers see pics here
    https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-25-pdv-25-pdvc-those-pokey-little-auger-burs-pimp-my-auger-pics.102423/#post-1318807
     
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  8. Battleman13

    Battleman13
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    I'm mostly just trying to not spend unnecessary money. I wouldn't risk my own safety so I'm wanting to make sure any parts I use are of the proper quality and comparability. The stove operating safely and properly are my biggest concerns. My goal is also to not spend money I don't need to spend. For example, replacing the entire convection blower when, from what I read, replacing just the motor is enough most of the time. A $100 difference. Same with the gaskets for the blowers, if I can cut my own out of silicon (with the proper temp rating of course) then I'd rather do that. I'll have to price it all out to make sure it's worth doing myself vs just buying factory.

    I plan to regularly grease the auger bearings. No excuse for me not too, since I don't have the back to my stove.

    I'll check out the augers you've mentioned.

    The stove itself is LOUD right now, I'm imaging that's a combination of blowers needing cleaned and gaskets needing replaced / upgraded. My convection blower has the rope on it now. I'd like it to have the silicone.. however it hasn't kicked on yet as I've never really "fired" the stove yet. Might let that be this winter. Combustion blower on the other hand, it needs work now. I'll get new gaskets for it.
     
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  9. Battleman13

    Battleman13
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    Sep 4, 2018
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    So I'm highly considering picking up a roll of Lynn ceramic fiber paper (rated to 2300F)... a 24" x 100" x 1/8" roll can be had for about $55 shipped. I might be able to get it cheaper but once I've roughly estimated how many gaskets I can get out of that roll.... even $100 would be cheap. Since my parents have the same stove (well they have PDVC) they can also use the gaskets I'm could potentially cut. I can cut many many auger gaskets, it looks like they fit in the opening of the 6" combustion gasket. The biggest "space taker" is the other combustion gasket where it mates to the exhaust channel flange. Still way cheaper than even aftermarket prices, and WAY cheaper then englanders price.

    I'm also very interested in doing the burn pot / burn plate mods... and I can piece it together "well enough" from the pictures but some of them are a bit confusing. So the main idea is to restrict the burn plate area, force air to be sucked up from underneath and directly into the "fire area" and allow the pellets to drop a bit further thus agitating the ash and causing it to go airborne and wind up in the sides of the stove (the "collection" area). I personally have no welding ability experience, buy my father is a mechanic and does have the tools and some experience. It doesn't look like a hard core fab really. I'm probably going for CladMaster's "Prototype 2" design to at least try first.

    Here is my confusion:

    img_1319-jpg.jpg




    I know what the top 3 parts are for, but I'm not quite sure what the three metal "strips" are for or where they go?


    Again just plugging some holes (not 100% sure which ones yet... if they are holes in the burn pot itself or maybe holes of the face of the stove below the aguer opening? Between that, restricting the burn plate area, forcing air under the burning pellets, and helping the ash move more... that seems to be the ticket. Of course, along with making sure the stove is clean, your running good pellets, and the stove parts are all in good working order.

    Does this PDV have a removable impingement plate that I can pull out the front and clean behind? DId some research, didn't find any clear cut answer.
     
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  10. Battleman13

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    A little bump to this thread....

    It's getting COLD fast here in western PA and I need to get this stove going now.

    I think I should order two auger bearing gaskets, the exhaust tube gasket (looks like fiberglass insulation with silver tap on top?), and possibly a door gasket.

    I just at first want to verify this thing is going to run for me. So I'm trying to rationalize a minimally viable scenario in which I can test this thing without dumping money. I dont want to get too deep in the rabbit hole to find out it's going to cost an arm and a leg. If the stove runs reasonable, I have no problem going the distance with the rebuild / servicing.


    The question here is... what is the point of that fiberglass insulation piece with the silver tap backing? It's part number PU-PGB52 and it's 27 dollars on the manufactuers website. Is it necessary? When I got this stove home after buying it, this was in little itty bitty particles (most of it) that were mostly lying on the bottom of the inside. I guess it is necessary or they wouldn't have put it there... but can I run the stove for an hour or two with it missing and not risk damage? I just want to do a test burn for a good 2 hours first. I have no problem replacing it if need be.
     
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  11. Ssyko

    Ssyko
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    you could run it but it might have a lazy flame from air leaks. On the factory burn pot if you lift up the burn plate, down inside, on both sides is a 1/2” hole, they are the ones to plug.

    The isulation in the back of the stove around the combustion fan housing? That should be replaced but it wont hinder a test fire. But keep an eye on it when you do, it is a heat shield
     
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  12. Battleman13

    Battleman13
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    Thanks for the advice I'm about to test fire the stove. It's all cleaned up well enough to test, exhaust clean, aguer tubes cleared out, all vacuumed out and in place. I had to push my nearly 400 pound stove about 20 yards. I put furniture movers under it.. made it much easier.

    All ready to test and I cant get the screen out of my basement window. Temporarily venting it out there for one to make sure the stove works and for two to make sure I like its location. Figured I'd wait until the morning and then try to get the screen out in the daylight. Looks like it comes out from outside.

    Fingers crossed! If test burn goes well I'm going to replace most gaskets, really clean the blowers and might upgrade combustion blower to a pp7610 open chassis unit.
     
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  13. hobby8691

    hobby8691
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    I've been intrigued by your thorough thread, since I 've owned the 25PDV for eleven years now. Always did my own maintenance, and its performed very well in our Maine climate, as added heat to our basement and to keep the upstairs warm. I'm wondering how you made out getting your stove to run?
     
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