Pipe dream burn times

[Paul L]

I do love my Quad Grand Voyageur. That said, their claimed 12 - 14 hour burn time is BS and so is their advertised burn time for the smaller Voyageur. Yes I burn pine, but anything over 6 1/2 to 7 hours and I am restarting the fire with S Cedars and kindling. I've read a bunch of tips here on getting long burn times and have tried all kinds of configurations in my firebox at night but I think I've hit the max with this stove.

The Quadra-fire product info page says the Grand gets "up to 14 hour burn times" but they put an asterisk next to this claim and nowhere on the page do they define what the asterisk means. I have a pretty good idea what it would say now that I've been hanging around here a while but when I chose the stove I, like a lot of folks I'm sure, didn't fully understand all the variables when it comes to determining burn times.

 

[Paul L]

Here is the email I just sent Quadra-Fire customer service this morning:

_______________________

Howdy Folks.

I've had my Voyageur Grand installed for about 6 weeks now. I do love the stove and will keep it a long time. I hang around on Hearth.com and there is a LOT of great discussion regarding stoves, burning practices and product recommendations.

I thought you might be interested why I am not and will not recommend the Voyageur series to anyone looking for an insert.

Quadra-Fire has totally botched the ACC in the Voyageur series. While I personally like the feature (it is never a bad idea to have additional control over your burn), you are upsetting your new owners with the lack of instruction on how to operate the ACC control.
More accurately not exactly a "lack of instruction," but more a case of incorrect instruction. I know a new Voyageur owner with a Nov 2013 Voyageur who received an owner's manual dated May 2013 that describes operation of a different ACC than is in his stove. No problem, just go on your website and look at the "control" video for the Voyageur series. Oops, no ... the video describes ACC control for a free standing Quad stove with totally different operation protocol. Also, while researching the ACC, potential Voyageur Grand buyers get a description of the ACC operation but it is not until we actually get the stove do we find out that there is no way to manually turn off the ACC in the Grand Voyageur like there is on all other models with the ACC feature. We find this out not by reading the manual that never comes out and states this, we have to fiddle around with it and go through a lot of frustration. I know ... the dealer comes into the picture here somewhere but it all starts with the manufacturer instructions. Geez, fellas. Come on.

Your claimed burn times ... please. I have seen in different places burn time claims for the Grand of "12-14" hours and "up to 14 hours." Why make these claims when there is NO way to approach these burn times for most, if not ALL, owners? There is a cross style asterisk on this claim on your product info page, but NOWHERE ON THE PAGE is there an explanation of the asterisk. Now that I have my stove and see how it burns with my wood (Ponderosa Pine, moisture content 9 to 15%), I look at this claim on your page as being intentionally misleading. I know how to burn and my absolute ceiling on burn times is 6 1/2 to 7 hours, defining "burn time" as the length of time a fire can burn where you can use the coals to rebuild the fire. And "up to 12 hour" burn on the Voyageur? NO ONE is getting close to this, even with perfect hardwood and "ideal" burning conditions.

You can do better. Start with accurate documentation please.

Best Regards,


Paul Leach
Westcliffe, CO

 

[Rickb]

I almost got the quadra fire 3100.... I am very glad I did more research before pulling the trigger.

 

[jzinckgra]

Probably not much help, but I was burning pine about a month ago and that stuff burns fast and leaves hardly any coals. You gotta be loading that sucker up again, before the last stick is gone, otherwise, start over. With the current weather, I am going to be out of oak before end of Jan and will have to go back to pine.

 

[begreen]

While I agree that 14 hrs burn time from a 2.3 cu ft firebox is a stretch, it's not impossible. I would never expect advertised burn times from pine. See if you can get some tamarack or high-altitude spruce. Note that there is the caveat for burn times on the Grand Voyageur's Specifications page:

†For wood-burning appliances: Actual burn times will vary based on how the appliance is operated, load size, moisture content and type of wood used, and installation

 

[Paul L]

While I agree that 14 hrs burn time from a 2.3 cu ft firebox is a stretch, it's not impossible. I would never expect advertised burn times from pine. See if you can get some tamarack or high-altitude spruce. Note that there is the caveat for burn times on the Grand Voyageur's Specifications page:
†For wood-burning appliances: Actual burn times will vary based on how the appliance is operated, load size, moisture content and type of wood used, and installation

Yes, I've seen that caveat but why make the burn time claim on their product info page with an asterisk but no explanation of the asterisk on that page? No excuse for that.

My surprise was not in finding out that I wasn't getting the best case 12 - 14 hour burns, but in finding out my overnight burn times are the exactly the same as I was getting with my 1982 Fisher insert.

 

[blades]

Partly depends on the particular definition of burn time, vs usable heat output Some of those adds must be from the strike of the first match until all coals are dead, But that's advertising now-a-days stretching everything to the limit just inside an outright lie.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Those estimates given and the asterisks are compliments of marketing people. They sometimes live in a different world. But I will agree that you will not get great burn times from pine. We will burn pine but certainly not at night when we want the longer burns.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I've seen that caveat but why make the burn time claim on their product info page with an asterisk but no explanation of the asterisk on that page? No excuse for that.

My surprise was not in finding out that I wasn't getting the best case 12 - 14 hour burns, but in finding out my overnight burn times are the exactly the same as I was getting with my 1982 Fisher insert.

How does the wood consumption and fire view compare to the old Fisher?

 

[Paul L]

How does the wood consumption and fire view compare to the old Fisher?

Despite my criticisms of this stove's burn time, some of the documentation and the imaginative marketing, I still love it. My short list of inserts started with big views and handsome looks. This stove has both in spades and I expect to burn 1/2 the wood I did last year.

 

[BobUrban]

I can get Blaze King King type burn times in my 30 when it is 35 degrees out and calm. Drop the temp 15-20 degrees with a 15mph wind and they drop off significantly. Just the reality of my homes insulation and the constraints of wood heat. This is with 3yr hard wood. Just have to live with the limitations of the fuel and box size -there is no magic.

I would guess that my stove in a super tight well insulated home and full of 15% oak would offer 12+hr burn times in 20 degree weather so if that is how it was tested the advertising would be accurate - just not completely realistic.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Since the BTU content of pine is quite a bit lower than hardwood i would expect burn times to be "quite a bit less" . The advertised burn times of wood stoves would almost exclusively be with WELL SEASONED HARD WOOD i would not expect near those times with pine. I burn a lot of pine and 6-7 hours is a pretty good run if its all pine IMO. Try some seasoned oak and then report on the burn times.

 

[Paul L]

Since the BTU content of pine is quite a bit lower than hardwood i would expect burn times to be "quite a bit less" . The advertised burn times of wood stoves would almost exclusively be with WELL SEASONED HARD WOOD i would not expect near those times with pine. I burn a lot of pine and 6-7 hours is a pretty good run if its all pine IMO. Try some seasoned oak and then report on the burn times.

I understand the limitations I have with pine in this regard. Truth of the matter however is that no one that owns either of the Voyageur series stoves will come forth here and say they get anywhere near these claimed burn times. I'd love to be proven wrong.

But I'm not

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I would be interested to see what kind of burn time a load of dry hardwood would return just for comparison purposes. I get a lot more burn time from hardwood but not sure if it TWICE as much time. It is significant though. I probably only get 5-7 hours in my englander 30 with pine and would expect closer to 10-12 with hardwood.

 

[Paul L]

I would be interested to see what kind of burn time a load of dry hardwood would return just for comparison purposes. I get a lot more burn time from hardwood but not sure if it TWICE as much time. It is significant though. I probably only get 5-7 hours in my englander 30 with pine and would expect closer to 10-12 with hardwood.

One of these days when I head to the city I'll buy some real hardwood, imported from the exotic forests of Kansas.

No response from Quadra-Fire regarding yesterday mornings email. Not surprised. I built a long career on quick response to customer contact, even if I knew it was going to be a difficult exchange. Woodstock does it right, from what I've heard here.

 

[Paul L]

Just arrived from QFire::

Thank you for your inquiry. We are in receipt of your email regarding: Marketing practices.
We have forwarded your comments to our eMarketing Manager for her consideration.

Customer Service & Support
Internal Code: CSII

 

[BrianN]

With my stove, it was shown that I would get 40 hour burn times. Now, I knew from the start I would not.
Manufacturers do stretch the numbers. Like when buying a new car. Look at the paper in the window. It will tell you that it gets 50mpg. That is in a controlled environment. In real life, you may get 35mpg.
They use well seasoned hard wood, I use pine. They are probably at 0 - 10, I, am anywhere from 0 - -25. Their heating space is well insulated, mine, not so much.
I understand how you think they are "cheating" you, but, in fairness, every manufacturer, of anything, will test their product in the best possible conditions.
I would LOVE to have a week or two worth of hard wood here, just to see the difference it would make from my pine on a cold windy night.
Pine and balsam are pretty much my only choices up here. So, I make do with what I have, and, I am pretty happy with the King. Even on the coldest nights with my pine, I am toasty for up to 12 hours.

 

[Kevin Dolan]

Despite my criticisms of this stove's burn time, some of the documentation and the imaginative marketing, I still love it. My short list of inserts started with big views and handsome looks. This stove has both in spades and I expect to burn 1/2 the wood I did last year.

Wow Paul, half the wood burned versus last year, that is awesome!! I have a jotul f400 and I think it is rated for 6 to 8 hour burns and I have found this to be pretty accurate. Obviously depends on how you load, kind of wood etc, but I found the info from the company to be pretty decent. At 1.7 cu ft we have to be good at jigsaw puzzles to burn overnight,but it is great fun. Glad that you still like your stove after a few hiccups.The marketing guys prob never used a wood stove lol

 

[Makers Mark]

Loaded my quad Voyaguer grand yesterday at 5:30 am. Carried son to airport got home 6 pm. House was 66 degrees. Pulled coals to front loaded up was burning good in 15 min. It was 40 to 45 and cloudy all day here. I burn mostly oak and hackberry. Little hickory now and then.

 

[Paul L]

Loaded my quad Voyaguer grand yesterday at 5:30 am. Carried son to airport got home 6 pm. House was 66 degrees. Pulled coals to front loaded up was burning good in 15 min. It was 40 to 45 and cloudy all day here. I burn mostly oak and hackberry. Little hickory now and then.

Nice. Your coals were enough to spark up new wood after 12 1/2 hours? That is great. A bit better than the 7 - 8 hours you posted in the other thread . I assume this is because you're learning how to work your new stove. How does your glass look after a 12 hour burn? I've gotten to the point where I can keep the glass pretty clean, except my overnight burns still leave a mess behind to clean up in the morning.

 

[Makers Mark]

Yesterday was first time I had been away for that long. Probably would have went another hour at least. Yes I have been learning it's likes and dislikes smaller splits work better, a 14" piece will fit north to south. So I load it up. When going on trip wife has always wondered how I could pack back of car so full so guess this carries over. Haven't cleaned glass yet, but that is no big deal. Have burned wood for 33 yrs without a window in heater. As long as it heats good and gas isn't coming on I'm happy. Being in north Ga mountains and having plenty of hardwood is a plus.

 

[Makers Mark]

Oh yeah forgot to put this in but I agree about the manual. The acc directions are useless. I love that feature though. I load up stove and do the push pull thing then go to work and wife just has to push down burn control lever in about 30 min.

 

[Paul L]

Yesterday was first time I had been away for that long. Probably would have went another hour at least. Yes I have been learning it's likes and dislikes smaller splits work better, a 14" piece will fit north to south. So I load it up. When going on trip wife has always wondered how I could pack back of car so full so guess this carries over. Haven't cleaned glass yet, but that is no big deal. Have burned wood for 33 yrs without a window in heater. As long as it heats good and gas isn't coming on I'm happy. Being in north Ga mountains and having plenty of hardwood is a plus.

North GA is beautiful. I have not tried packing in shorter splits N/S. Nice to know the stove is capable of good burning ...
obviously I was starting to have my doubts.

 

[Makers Mark]

I was too. First few days I was like oh ---k then read some posts on EPA stoves felt a little better then started playing around with controls and loading. Have been pleasantly surprised. Like you not using as much wood. Would like to have a cutaway view to see where air comes from and where it goes in. Big difference in these and older models. I started with fisher papa bear. Love Colorado have been skiing out there several times.

 

[rwhite]

I burn a lot of lodgepole and I'd say your doing pretty dang good with 6-7 hours. I usually average about 5 and I can still reload and have some coals. With oak I can get get 8-9 most times.