piping questions

[verne]

I just finished framing my barn , so its time to order the boiler. I am going to try to attach the piping layout I have.Any suggestions welcome, please. The boiler is an eko 40 , 1000 gal propane tank for storage. One question I have is how do I make sure my oil boiler does not come on? The honeywell box on my oil boiler only drops to like 180. Maybe an aqua-stat on my boiler supply wired to my burner? Thanks.

 

[Eric Johnson]

If you're like me, you'll find that you never need the oil burner during the heating season. I just turn my gas boiler off when I fire up the EKO, and turn it back on when I'm going to be out of town or otherwise unavailable to fire the wood boiler. So I wouldn't spend a lot of time or money worrying about it just yet. Focus on the wood side and see how that works.

 

[verne]

i quess i would have to put a switch in just before the oil burner . as of now the shut off controls pumps etc

 

[Eric Johnson]

You probably have an aquastat controlling the burner. I'd put a switch on the wire leading from the stat to the burner, if there's not one there already.

Actually, you probably have two stats controlling the burner--one for maintaining temp and another one for overheat protection. I guess a switch on either one would work, though I'd do it on the former.

 

[verne]

How does the rest look? Any concerns with supply and return both at boiler return .

 

[Eric Johnson]

Analyzing piping diagrams is really not my strong suit. But offhand, my preference is to put the supply from the wood boiler into the top of the oil boiler for faster response, but opinions on that vary. Any plans for heating domestic hot water (DHW)? Also, I'm not clear on your tank bypass strategy. I can see how your supply water bypasses the tank, but not how you get the return back to the EKO independent of the tank.

 

[verne]

I have an indirect fired hot water tank 80 gal so thats on zone. as for by passing the tank I dont know . cozy dave gave me the diagram . He is waiting for my call back to finish order . so i should have a way to feed the house direct without chargeing my tank ? is that correct?

 

[Eric Johnson]

That's right. You want to be able to go direct to your zones so that you don't have to heat the whole tank up before you can get heat into your house. Also, you want to be able to operate independent of the tank in the event of tank maintenance, etc. As I said, I'm kind of out of my element when it comes to piping diagrams. Cozy Dave is pretty good at explaining this stuff. I'd ask him to clarify. Tell him I said hi.

 

[verne]

Will do Eric.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

There is no way in that design to pull heat out of the tank, without running the wood boiler circulator, even after the wood boiler's fire is out and you want to run off the stored heat.

Similarly, you are heating the oil boiler in order to deliver heat to the zones, even when there is no need for that.

Both will end up wasting large amounts of heat up their respective chimney's.

As Eric mentioned, there should be a way to bypass the tank when you are heating the house directly, or if the tank needs maintenance.

There's also no way to reverse flow in the tank for charging, so you are losing a lot of the stratification benefits.

Joe

 

[verne]

I just ordered the boiler so please help with suggestions. I understand that the heat has to go through the boiler. will the oil boiler pumps pull hot water from tank when needed? I asked dave about a bypass and he said he would send me something to explain? a tee?

 

[verne]

Joe,
The more I look at the diagram the more I understand what you are saying. I need to get a piping plan in order.It is hard for me to know if something will work when I dont really understand. any help please.

 

[machinistbcb]

I am having the same problem finding a good piping diagram that includes the wood boiler, storage tank, and oil boiler. Here is what I have come up with so far.

The feed from the wood boiler will go to the top of the storage tank with the return coming back from the bottom. There will be a feed with another circ from the top of the tank that will supply the system. I will connect the two top feed on the tank with a pipe with several holes drilled in it so hopfully if the house is calling for heat while the tank is being charged the feed will draw the hot water coming from the wood boiler. There will be a bypass with ball valves that can be opened to bypass the tank and send heat directly to the system from the wood boiler. I think will try to set up a timer on my tarm that will shut off the circ after say 4 hours. See the pic below, who knowns it may be totally wrong but I think it may simplify things a bit.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I guess I should put together a sticky with different piping diagrams, because it's a common question. There are plenty posted here on the site, but no good way to find them all.

Here's one that I lifted from a Tarm Yahoo Group that seems pretty complete. BTW, Tarm has some nice resources on its site: (broken link removed to http://www.tarmusa.com). There's nothing brand- or model-specific when it comes to gasifier piping schemes.

 

[verne]

I've attached another drawing I got from Dave . Please let me know what you think

 

[trehugr]

I am also trying to get a handle on all this. Isn't the EKO still feeding its zones via the oil boiler, or am I wrong as usual?

 

[verne]

From what I understand, yes. This set up will allow bypass of the tank and it wount flow through boiler unless called for . the added pump could also be a zone valve. once again this is how I understand it?

 

[trehugr]

This is the way I understand it should be piped. I changed in the photoshop to parallel from series. Pumps and valves not included. Do I have this right ?

 

[verne]

That would stop hot water from going thru oil bolier. on the other end it has to circulate thru wood boiler. I hope some others chime in .

 

[verne]

anyone out there?

 

[Nofossil]

I can't really read the info on your diagram - could you post a larger copy?

 

[verne]

Im not sure what size I can get it to .Ill try to post it again .

 

[verne]

sorry thats not much better. the previous post had the wood boiler connected to the supply . as to not put water thru oiler boiler. Also I will have one 1000 gal propane tank. thanks. The yellow expansion tanks say two XTV 100;s or one XTV 160

 

[verne]

I was hopeing to get some feedback to this, especially with the second design. would it be better as trehugr stated to hook to supply and return or just return . also clarification on controll of the feed pump to the zones.

 

[machinistbcb]

That one looks pretty simular to the one I made up shown on page one, but my feed goes to the feed line above the boiler. I plan to hook up a circ relay to the circ on the tank that will have the thermostats from the house hooked to it. I think you will need to use a strap on aqua stat on the feed pipe from the tank to disable the oil boiler circ unless the water temp goes below 160 degrees. I think my set-up simplfies things because the tarm is just used to charge the tank, and the tank is used to supply heat to the system. If the tank is not fully up to temp and the house is calling for heat then hopfully with the pipe set-up in the tank the hot water from the tarm will go directly to the house. I am not an expert but I have been studying a lot a diagrams as well and so far I think I like mine the best anf I am going to give it a try.

Brian