Greetings all - I have read the few comments about the "block" that is shown in most manuals to be installed where the liner enters the flue. I am one of those people - that the installer cut a hole in my boiler plate and refuses to install a block plate that would seal off the house to the very massive space of the old flue. The installer says "I sealed your old flue off when I capped the top of the flue where your new liner (6 inch diameter) terminates - I do not need to install and additional block down lower in the unit." I contacted the manufacturer and they too say this is just a recommendation not a stirct requirement for installation. Well if it is a recommendation - why in the hell does installers not want to do it. I am afraid that the "convection" principals are going to create serious drafts in and around the new liner and cut the performance of my new insert. The home is in an area that gets damn cold - well below zero with lots of snow. I need someone to tell me if this is truly a sticking point - right now the installer refuses to install and I refuse to let it go. I am purchasing an insert because I believe in being energy positive and not having the heat go out the top of my home and getting the biggest bang for my buck. Please be honest to tell me that I am being a typical woman and making more of this than I need to - or is this really IMPORTANT. Important enough that if the installer refuses to look for another installer and deal with the aftermath.... Thanks seaturtle
Plate Block - Arg!!!!
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Blockoff plate = Heat stays below it. In your house.
No blockoff plate = The heat warms the walls of the chimney all the way up to that seal at the top of the chimney, and through the walls of the chimney, the great outdoors.
No blockoff plate = The heat warms the walls of the chimney all the way up to that seal at the top of the chimney, and through the walls of the chimney, the great outdoors.
That's the best explanation I have read. BB, your precision with language is unsurpassed. 
SeaTurtle, IMO, installers are reluctant to do this because they're lazy, like most humans. It would be a sticking point with me, but you may have to talk to a lot of installers to find one who will do it, or roll up your sleeves and DIY. I would try to work with this guy first. . .maybe offer him $100 + materials.
SeaTurtle, IMO, installers are reluctant to do this because they're lazy, like most humans. It would be a sticking point with me, but you may have to talk to a lot of installers to find one who will do it, or roll up your sleeves and DIY. I would try to work with this guy first. . .maybe offer him $100 + materials.
Den said:That's the best explanation I have read. BB, your precision with language is unsurpassed.
SeaTurtle, IMO, installers are reluctant to do this because they're lazy, like most humans. It would be a sticking point with me, but you may have to talk to a lot of installers to find one who will do it, or roll up your sleeves and DIY. I would try to work with this guy first. . .maybe offer him $100 + materials.
That's so true we just haven't figured out what language he uses! I believe that he speaks a little known language known as Bartonian with a Virginia accent but it can't be proven as no one else speaks it..
:lol:
Ray
seaturtle said:
Simple solution here----Your the customer, your the one paying the $$$$$$$$$$.
if he is refusing to do what you would like, tell him to pack up his tools and products and hit the road. He isn't the only installer around. Stick to your guns on the plate, you won't be sorry.
In addition to the block off plate, make sure you insulate that liner or if too tight, drop in some insulation from the top down.
Thanks for taking the time to respond - much appreciated. I will insist on the plate....even if I need to fork out a few more $$$. Heck with how much research I have had to do about propre installation of stoves - I could probably do it....LOL!! Thanks again.
seaturtle said:
I feel your pain, I am trying to get an insert installed and everyone I speak with does not want to do a block-off plate, even for more money, they simply won't do it.
NextEndeavor
Burning Hunk
Mine was a DIY install. The place I purchased was very helpful for all of my dumb questions last year, enough so that I trusted their advice. As for the old fireplace damper,we just used a grinder to get the opening large enough for the 6 inch full length liner to pass through it. I wrapped liner insulation only around the bottom 2 foot down around the old damper. Then I packed the remainder of the slot full of fiberglass insulation to prevent the stove heat from going up the oversized brick chimney. It stayed in there just fine all winter and summer. I've never had any cold start draft problems even during this shoulder season and best of all, there is no cold down drafting when the stove is off. I'm pretty sure if you don't either use a block off plate or seal it somehow that you will have a lot of cold air dropping down into the room, aside from the concerns others mentioned about heat loss problems when burning.
Todd said:
Thats what I did. Much easier with my install and in my opinion just as good as a plate. Matter of fact I don't think its worth the trouble if you can stuff the smoke chamber fully with Roxul.
![[Hearth.com] Plate Block - Arg!!!!](/talk/data/attachments/49/49367-ce91cc87c14d3c0d1eeb0ee9fb220337.jpg?hash=g50mNzGs-x)
Can one have that stuff in contact with single wall stove pipe, or would it have to go after the transition to class A?
Loco Gringo
Feeling the Heat
Aparently you can danno. Good video review here..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxYhBAZxDoU&feature=related
Loco Gringo said:
That was interesting info! Looks like a great product for woodstove installs and has many other uses as well.. I would think if you built a hearth with steel studs the Roxul would work great between the studs for fire protection..
Ray
NextEndeavor
Burning Hunk
Hay Stejus: I checked out your install pictures, looks great! Your recent post talked about insulating the liner after install from the top down. What would you pour down in there after the fact?
Many say to insulate the liner while others claim it's not required. I don't seem to have any draft or creosote issues so if it's not broke why fix it? I did however have an issue with a badly creosoted cap when running with temps below zero. That problem was 100% self induced from burning wet red oak out of ignorance. Knowing what I do now, it's a wonder the stuff even burned. BTW, I've also since learned seasoned wood keeps the door glass much cleaner too!
Many say to insulate the liner while others claim it's not required. I don't seem to have any draft or creosote issues so if it's not broke why fix it? I did however have an issue with a badly creosoted cap when running with temps below zero. That problem was 100% self induced from burning wet red oak out of ignorance. Knowing what I do now, it's a wonder the stuff even burned. BTW, I've also since learned seasoned wood keeps the door glass much cleaner too!
I first stuffed the smoke chamber with Roxul. I think I got almost four batts in there.
(broken image removed)
Then I put some masonry nails on both sides as anchors for stainless steel wire. The wire holds the horizontal layers of Roxul.
(broken image removed)
Installed two layers and wired them up. They almost held themselves up. The wire makes sure they don't drop. I can't see how an additional metal blockoff plate wood make any difference.
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As you can see, this sucker is packed... I used around five batts total.
(broken image removed)
(broken image removed)
Then I put some masonry nails on both sides as anchors for stainless steel wire. The wire holds the horizontal layers of Roxul.
(broken image removed)
Installed two layers and wired them up. They almost held themselves up. The wire makes sure they don't drop. I can't see how an additional metal blockoff plate wood make any difference.
(broken image removed)
As you can see, this sucker is packed... I used around five batts total.
(broken image removed)
It is amazing what photos do
- You got me thinking I can seal my own liner/flue connection. After the talks I am thinking that the insulation might be a better way to rather than the 24 gage steel recommended by the manual (R-Factors). I notice people are using the term fire wool and NOT fiberglass insulation (no backing of course) - is there a reason or do I just not know the lingo of insulation? If I have a 30 foot run to the top of my chimmeny - would it still be a good idea to insulate the whole run? Or maybe shoot for a couple of feet up from the liner/flue connection? Can this insulation be placed from the bottom - Just use a tool/thingy to stuff the insulation into cavities via the hole cut in my boiler plate? I know I promised no more questions, but know you have me thinking.....Scary I know. Thanks Seaturtle
- You got me thinking I can seal my own liner/flue connection. After the talks I am thinking that the insulation might be a better way to rather than the 24 gage steel recommended by the manual (R-Factors). I notice people are using the term fire wool and NOT fiberglass insulation (no backing of course) - is there a reason or do I just not know the lingo of insulation? If I have a 30 foot run to the top of my chimmeny - would it still be a good idea to insulate the whole run? Or maybe shoot for a couple of feet up from the liner/flue connection? Can this insulation be placed from the bottom - Just use a tool/thingy to stuff the insulation into cavities via the hole cut in my boiler plate? I know I promised no more questions, but know you have me thinking.....Scary I know. Thanks SeaturtleRock wool is fire resistant typically to over 2000 degrees. You can get Roxul at Lowes. You should not use the standard fiberglass insulation. It's not so fireproof. I shoved it in by hand wearing a long sleeve shirt and gloves.
You should insulate your liner. It helps keep the flue gases warmer for a longer time up the chimney which gives you a better draft (flow) and less creosote buildup. Most buy the insulation kit that wraps around the flex pipe. I personally think that stuff is expensive compared to Insuflex by Magnaflex. This is a pre-insulated liner system with an outer protective aluminum flex tube. You can only use it if your flue is 8" or larger though. Look at the last picture in my previous post and you can see the liner.
(broken image removed)
You should insulate your liner. It helps keep the flue gases warmer for a longer time up the chimney which gives you a better draft (flow) and less creosote buildup. Most buy the insulation kit that wraps around the flex pipe. I personally think that stuff is expensive compared to Insuflex by Magnaflex. This is a pre-insulated liner system with an outer protective aluminum flex tube. You can only use it if your flue is 8" or larger though. Look at the last picture in my previous post and you can see the liner.
(broken image removed)
seaturtle said:Wow
+1 Thanks for the photos.
Gabe
Loco Gringo
Feeling the Heat
+2, I cant for the life of me find the plate I need here in these mountains. Now Ill get er done via Lowes. Thanks to you boys. Much thanks.
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