Please help! I'm completely lost....

[jstsomeguy99]

Hello everyone.
I am completely new to owning a fireplace (I was born and raised in Florida...not much use for one down there.) but my new house that my wife and I are buying here in Michigan has 2 fireplaces.

My main question that I have (and feel free to give advice even if I don't ask for it.) is do I need an insert or can I just get a wood rack to place the wood on and burn the fire in the plain cement "box"?

I know that I will need a "spark guard" in front of the fireplace and fireplace pokers and tongs but are there any other things that I may need to have on hand or to make the set-up complete?

Thank you in advance for any and all help or advice that y'all can offer.

 

[claydogg84]

You do not need an insert. If it didn't look like the previous owners were using the fireplace at all, it is probably a good idea to get a sweep to come and inspect the chimney. Don't expect to get much radiant heat from it, as fireplaces are usually just for looks.

 

[Grisu]

Sure you can burn wood in a fireplace, that's what they are there for. I would have a sweep come out to clean the chimney(s) and make sure it is in proper operating condition. Just be aware that you won't get much if any heat from the fireplace. They are mostly for ambiance.

I would also get a fireplace shovel and broom for cleaning later and a steel pail with tightly closing lid to put the ashes in. Be aware that coals can stay alive (hot) in the ashes for weeks so store the pail only on a non-combustible surface outside and dispose of the ashes properly. Welding gloves could also be helpful but are not a necessity. And not just for the fireplace: Do you have smoke and CO detectors in the house?

 

[Swedishchef]

Welcome to the forums!

I think your question has a simple answer based on your expectations: do you want to burn in it and get use of the heat? Or just to watch a flame? If you expect heat: a fireplace simply gives off a bit of radiant heat but the majority goes up the chimney. An insert will allow you to effectively heat an area with wood within the open area of a fireplace.

Happy burning!

Andrew

 

[Wood Duck]

A fireplace is decorative and can be fun, but it really isn't a very effective way to heat the house. You lose almost as much heat up the chimney as you get from burning the wood.

An insert will make the fireplace into an effective part of your home heating system. You'll get much longer burns from the same amount of wood, and you'll lose a lot less heat up the flue (chimney). Of course the insert will be much more expensive than the minimal stuff necessary that a couple of previous posters listed.

If you are a guy who likes hands-on work you might enjoy burning wood for part of your heat. Lots of us do, but it isn't for everyone.

 

[hamsey]

If you decide to utilize your fireplace invest in a fireback. Fireback is a cast iron plate that sits behind the fire once if heats up it will radiant heat out into the room.

 

[jstsomeguy99]

Thanks for the replies.

As for the safety questions, yes, we have CO and smoke detectors in the house.
As for the ones about heating the house, at some point we would like to have it help with home heating along with "looking pretty" as the wife says.

Therefore, what's a good price point to look for when we decide to get the insert, so we can have an idea of what we have to save up for next year?

 

[jstsomeguy99]

Good idea hamsey. Thank you.

I'm thinking that we will get the chimney swept and then maybe use the fireplace very little this winter because we are just now starting the closing process for the house itself. So the fireback might be a good "get by" until we can get an insert.

 

[Newwave]

Welcome to the forums. Some very knowledgable folks on here with lots of experience.

Here's what I did four years ago with a similar decision to make. Our fireplace had been used by us and previous owners for years. I always had a sweep come each year to clean and inspect. Long story short.....got to the point where major repairs were necessary due to cracked and broken flue tiles.

I decided to install a wood burning insert with a stainless steel flue liner and never looked back. Wish I had done that years ago. We now heat most of our 2200 sq ft home from this one insert. The room with the insert and former open fireplace is no longer chilly in winter, it is the coziest room in our home and where we spend lots of time. I typically burn 3 to 4 cords per year depending on severity of weather.

You may want to consider installing an insert if you're interested in getting some heat AND having something nice to look at. We still see the fire but the heat stays inside. Need a reliable wood supply to get a few years ahead on seasoning/drying the wood as you may know, the stoves/inserts are particular about having wood ~20% moisture content. Lower is better.

Photo is my woodpile. Little more than 12 cord or about 3 years worth. I stack it uncovered the first year then top cover until needed. Ideally the wood would be stacked in single rows but this is not a perfect world. I normally get my oak, locust, maple, ash and etc to around 20-23 % mc in three years so I'm ok with this technique.

Good luck to you.

 

[Grisu]

Depends a lot what you are looking for. Cheap units start at about $1100 but that can go up to $3000 depending on size and look of the insert. You will also need a liner kit to put that into the chimney. Add installation cost if you don't want to do it yourself and $3000 to $5000 would be a reasonable range to expect. In addition to saving up for an insert, you should also get several cords of wood split and stacked to dry for next winter. Any new, efficient insert will require dry wood to perform properly and burn safely.

 

[jstsomeguy99]

Wow. That's alot of wood! I'm thinking that I will have an area that's about 12'x6' to store wood behind the house. Is that going to be enough or am I going to be screwed if I don't have as much room for wood as your picture shows?

And which insert did you go with? Our home is about the same size as yours so it might be a good starting place for me to start looking.

 

[Newwave]

I went with the Jotul Rockland insert. It is flush mount so minimal protrusion into the room. Has a blower to push out heat into the room. I liked the look and they're designed and manufactured in Norway, been in business a long time and it gets seriously cold in Norway in case you've never been there in winter. I believe the stoves are assembled in Maine, US but not sure. I'm very happy with the stove but more importantly Momma is very happy with it. Ha Ha.

If you're burning for heat you will need several (5 to 6?) cords of wood per year I suspect, being you're in the frozen north. Others in your area may know better. We try to minimize use of gas heat at our house and burn wood instead. After learning the hard way, I like many others don't rely on so called 'seasoned wood' from wood sellers. I buy/scrounge my wood three years ahead and season it myself. It's money in the bank. Normally I get the wood in early spring or early summer and pay less for green wood. I scrounge whatever I can to add to it. I won't be burning it for several years so it's all good. That way I'm no longer disappointed by wood sellers when they deliver unburnable wood. This past March I bought 7 cord and had it delivered and stacked. That wood will be for burning in fall 2016/ early 2017. Burning properly seasoned wood is a pleasure; lots of heat, burns great, easy to light and hardly any creosote in chimney.

 

[begreen]

The insert size should be determined by the fireplace size and the area to be heated. For that we need full fireplace dimensions including top and bottom depths. Also, how open is the fireplace room to the rest of the house? How tall are the ceilings?

 

[jatoxico]

Since you said you haven't had much experience with wood burning let me be the first to say that even in an open fireplace wood needs to be seasoned to burn well w/o creating excessive amounts of creosote in the chimney. Unchecked, creosote can cause a chimney fire which is very dangerous. Seasoning really gets underway after the wood is split and for a fireplace will minimally take about a year. It's something you have to plan for but using dry wood will vastly improve your enjoyment of the fireplace and reduce the formation of creosote.

I have the opinion that as long as I'm going to have a fire I want to get some real heat out of it and that's where the insert comes in. If you were to go the stove route realize the wood will typically need another year of seasoning as they require "better" fuel (not to say the fireplace wouldn't be happy w/ drier wood).

With a modern insert/stove you can really take advantage of a fireplace. How people use them runs the gamut. You can simply supplement your primary heat source or if planned correctly, fully replace your heating needs w/ wood. In my case I burn mostly nights and weekends with the main goal being comfort, the savings are gravy. Used that way I go through about 1.5-2 cords w/ my insert.

There are many stove/insert options and many quality ones that are pretty cost effective.

 

[Simonkenton]

Post some good detailed, close up, and far away pics of the fireplaces. How old are they?
Most fireplaces don't heat well.

 

[jstsomeguy99]

I will get the dimensions and post some pictures of the fireplaces and the rooms they are in probably tomorrow

Thanks again everyone, and keep the advice and tips coming. I'm taking notes. Lol

 

[newatthis]

Take my ignorant advice for all its worth. I'm not at all convinced that you need dry wood for a firePLACE. I burned often literally dripping wet wood in our fireplace for many years, and when we got a chimney sweep to clean prior to the stove and insert install, it was actually quite clean! Now when you have a wood stove, wood MUST be dry, or you will get a creosote problem that can be dangerous. I think you could burn any old wood now in the fireplace, and suggest you not make much of an investment in wood while it will be at a premium (winter), but after winter is over, start looking for wood you can stack/season on your property, while the price will be better.

You can buy a grate for the fireplace (to put the logs on), screen (to keep flying sparks from burning holes on your floor, or worse), and tools (poker, grabber/tongs, shovel) all on Craigslist. You will not need the grate or screen if you upgrade to a stove in the coming years, and there will probably be other people upgrading their fireplaces and looking to get rid of their fireplaces accessories on Craigslist, like we just did. Some of the tools you will use with the wood stove, but you won't need them as much- the grabber/tongs I still use.

In Michigan, you will find a stove quickly pays for itself, even if you spend a lot of money for new stoves and hire someone for the installs, like we did. Here in Virginia, our payback time will take much longer. But we have no regrets, are loving the stoves for higher temps in the house without guilt, ecological reasons, resiliency/emergency reasons.

You will soon learn if your fireplace actually imports cold air into your house, when it is not burning. We had two fireplaces/chimneys. One was no problem, but the other one had a backdraft down the flue that I called the Arctic express. Even with the damper closed, the amount of cold air that came into the room, and spread to the adjacent rooms, was enormous. Now (even with no burning in the stove), there is no cold air coming in, because a wood stove with its chimney is a closed system. I feel like having the stove there, even without burning in it, actually is saving us money by plugging the huge cold air channel to the outdoors. (Of course our "no problem fireplace" probably just let all the heat out, through the chimney, and we would not have been able to tell- again, problem solved with the closed system of a wood stove.)

This forum is fun, take this winter and spring to read and learn, and then make some educated decisions. I discovered the group just a few days before we committed to our stoves, and it really helped finalize our decisions. Now that we have them installed, you'd think I'd be done here, but it's helped so much with the learning curve of how to operate the stoves. I had some inkling that this would be a lifestyle change for us, and it's true- the whole storing and drying the wood takes time and planning- but like many others here, I find it a fun new hobby. The group is well-moderated, and everyone will help you with your questions.

 

[jstsomeguy99]

Thanks alot newatthis. Great advice!

 

[jatoxico]

Take my ignorant advice for all its worth. I'm not at all convinced that you need dry wood for a firePLACE. I burned often literally dripping wet wood in our fireplace for many years, and when we got a chimney sweep to clean prior to the stove and insert install, it was actually quite clean!

Honestly I don't think advocating the burning of wet wood is very good advice. No matter what you want to say wet wood burns dirtier and depending on the proximity and disposition of the neighbors, a poorly burning fire can be a source of (justifiable) friction.

And I had the exact opposite experience w/ my fireplace, whenever I tried to burn half seasoned wood it burned terribly because my draft was marginal so I ended up with a smoldering smoky mess that was tough to get as hot as I needed to burn well. Smelled up the house and the neighborhood. Not a good recipe for success. Even when I feed it decently seasoned wood, each time I had it swept, it needed it (outside chimney, marginal draft). The OP may find his fireplace tolerates wetter wood or maybe not, couldn't say from here but burning dry wood is better in all cases. Burn clean and smart.

 

[jstsomeguy99]

I'm definitely going to be trying to burn drier wood just so we get heat and not smoke. I'll save the wet stuff for my meat smoker.

 

[Simonkenton]

newathis is correct. I burn lots of wood in my fireplace and marginally dry wood burns fine, and does not generate creosote. Get some dry kindling to light it with and the fireplace will burn anything you put in there. Plus, green wood generates coals that last longer.
Remember, the fireplace is a "pre EPA" device. Mine was invented in 1778. The EPA did not exist then.

 

[jatoxico]

newathis is correct. I burn lots of wood in my fireplace and marginally dry wood burns fine, and does not generate creosote. Get some dry kindling to light it with and the fireplace will burn anything you put in there. Plus, green wood generates coals that last longer.
Remember, the fireplace is a "pre EPA" device. Mine was invented in 1778. The EPA did not exist then.

newathis who otherwise gave good advice said wet, not marginal, wet. But in any case your position that because you can burn marginal wood in your fireplace means every will be able to is incorrect and ignores air quality issues.

I can tell you it did not work in my set up and even if it did people involved in educating the public on good burning practices do not agree with burning green wood because it is dirtier and worse for indoor and outdoor air quality. We have learned a thing or two since people built your fireplace in 1778, people who incidentally, probably froze their #$%@# off.

 

[Simonkenton]

My fireplace was invented in 1778 by Mr. Rumford.
Indeed, we have not learned a thing since 1778, because the Rumford is the best fireplace ever invented.
If marginal, or wet wood did not burn well in your fireplace, then, please, speak for yourself. I have a very good fireplace.

We do not freeze our ass off with our fireplace and, indeed, it will heat the entire house, with a low temp of 32 degrees, even if burning marginal or wet wood.
Sorry you have an inferior fireplace, Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, my Yankee friend. Most fireplace masons are not aware of the advantages of the Rumford design, and most fireplaces are of an inferior design.

 

[jatoxico]

My fireplace was invented in 1778 by Mr. Rumford.
Indeed, we have not learned a thing since 1778, because the Rumford is the best fireplace ever invented.
If marginal, or wet wood did not burn well in your fireplace, then, please, speak for yourself. I have a very good fireplace.

We do not freeze our ass off with our fireplace and, indeed, it will heat the entire house, with a low temp of 32 degrees, even if burning marginal or wet wood.
Sorry you have an inferior fireplace, Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, my Yankee friend. Most fireplace masons are not aware of the advantages of the Rumford design, and most fireplaces are of an inferior design.

Everything you just said about speaking for myself or my fireplace vs yours was exactly my original point. I said in my original post that my fireplace was marginal and to be clear I doubt the mason who built it knew very much at all about what makes a fireplace work. Nor did I say yours or anyone else's does not. What I am saying is that neither one of us know how the OP's fireplace performs so telling someone that you will and if fact should burn wet wood is at best a guess which makes it poor advice and still does not address air quality issues which is indisputable. This was never about the qualities of Rumsford fireplaces but if you want to erect a monument to Mr. Rumsford I won't stop you.

I stick w/ my statement, burn seasoned wood. Oh and "Yankee friend" has no place here.

 

[Renjilj]

quote "Here's what I did four years ago with a similar decision to make. Our fireplace had been used by us and previous owners for years. I always had a sweep come each year to clean and inspect. Long story short.....got to the point where major repairs were necessary due to cracked and broken flue tiles.

I decided to install a wood burning insert with a stainless steel flue liner and never looked back. Wish I had done that years ago. We now heat most of our 2200 sq ft home from this one insert. The room with the insert and former open fireplace is no longer chilly in winter, it is the coziest room in our home and where we spend lots of time. I typically burn 3 to 4 cords per year depending on severity of weather.

You may want to consider installing an insert if you're interested in getting some heat AND having something nice to look at. We still see the fire but the heat stays inside. Need a reliable wood supply to get a few years ahead on seasoning/drying the wood as you may know, the stoves/inserts are particular about having wood ~20% moisture content. Lower is better.

Photo is my woodpile. Little more than 12 cord or about 3 years worth. I stack it uncovered the first year then top cover until needed. Ideally the wood would be stacked in single rows but this is not a perfect world. I normally get my oak, locust, maple, ash and etc to around 20-23 % mc in three years so I'm ok with this technique."

Good luck to you.[/quote]

Similar story here. Avid fireplace burner for 15+ years- we loved it. After about 2 hrs got good heat in the area it was in actually, but cold in rest of house... Came at a price... She liked to go through wood fast! About 9-12 logs per hour. Long story short, I upgraded to an insert this year based on the rising oil prices (I jinxed that.. Should have bought a snowblower too!). I kick myself for not doing it 3 years ago, or 2, or last... We were worried about losing the "ambiance" of the fire. Well, havent looked back either. Can still see plenty of flames and the heat has a similar "dry and hot" feel. The difference is night and day for us. The same amount of wood we used in 1.5 hrs in the FP now heats our ENTIRE 2000 sq/ft house for 24-36 hrs - and by heat, I mean real heat, like 74-80 in most parts vs the old 67 on the t-stat!!

Cost me about $3k at this point for stove (Osburn 2000) and top end 6" liner, some new wood racks, new tools, fire starters for my wife, and other "stuff". I installed myself with advice and experiences from the great folks here. It wasnt hard, but I am an Engineer and contractor so had the tools and the work is a bit more natural to me then say, a window treatment fabric salesman... With some help, I think most could prob attempt.

Still havent used a drop of oil for heat and got a 1/2 tank left. Last year at this time we were filling up for 2nd time... I expect to use about 3 cord this year

I get wood for free so it made sense to go that route vs pellet or other. It is work though! A labor of love for me, and wouldnt trade it, but be forewarned - unless you "buy" the wood, it doesnt find itself, cut itself, split itself or stack itself.... and dry is better than wet so ideally room for 2-3 years of it. Can be a bit messy (dust, bark, chip), but the heat from wood is like no other.