plumbing for waterline into house?

[iron]

my main water shutoff valve has a small leak; my garage floor near the garage door is constantly damp now for the past 3 weeks after i had to turn the valve on/off a few times.

also, the water shutoff has never fully shutoff the water to the house - there has always been a trickle.

i assume i need to replace the full valve and handle to fix this issue. right?

if so, is it possible to use sharkbite connections and PEX for a short stretch?

 

[Ashful]

Generally, it's not necessary to replace the high-quality gate valves used for main shutoff. First try just snugging up the packing nut, and see if that stops the leak. They should be tight enough to give a little resistance to turning the handle, but that's it. Too tight, and you will either tear up the packing or snap off the handle. Too loose, and they leak.

Sometimes the packing is just shot. I see green, meaning high-mineral water, and sometimes this green mineral build-up forms on the valve stem (of a leaking valve). This in turn will tear up the packing. In this case, buy a new packing cord, close the valve, remove packing nut, unwind old packing cord, clean stem with CRL, steel wool or other very fine abrasive, clean with water, dry, wind on new packing, re-install packing nut, and turn water back on. Snug packing nut just enough to stop any leaking at stem. This is all done without need to shut off water supply.

On the very rare occasion the valve is shot beyond repair, then it is indeed time to replace. In that case, are you on borough water, or private well? If on borough, do you have a curb wrench to shut off supply?

I would never use anything less than a full soldered connection on a main supply valve. If you're even considering sharkbites, I'd suggest you call a pro, for valve replacement.

 

[iron]

i think the green is not from water, but actually poorly cleaned flux that has surface corrosion through the years.

i'll look into the packing kit. are these all standard sizes?

i don't think our water is particularly high in mineral content. we have city of seattle water, which is generally ranked #1 in the country for quality/taste.

i put up a CL ad for a plumber. one guy suggested sharkbites. i thought that was odd, so just wanted to check.

thanks ashful.

 

[blades]

shark bite there won't pass inspection, at least here it wouldn't.

 

[peakbagger]

The easiest approach to packing is to buy the wrap around braided cords. I have made do with rolling up a cord of Teflon tape from the standard Teflon tape you use for pipe threads and using that cord to wrap the stem in the stuffing box. Just carefully crank in the packing nut and run the valve open and closed a few times and it usually works pretty well.

The whole concept of adjustable packing seems to have been lost to most folks, working in a papermill I got to see some pretty incredible packing arrangements. We went through miles of Teflon packing to keep 100 plus year old equipment running.

By the way most utilities use ball valves out at the service stop at the street. It takes a special slotted wrench that runs down the pipe at the service stop to turn it. I helped change out a few rotten galvanized service lines years ago and the utility would usually lend you a wrench.

 

[Ashful]

Around here, we have very hard water, so when I saw the green I made assumptions. Sorry about that.

Is it leaking from the stem, between handle and packing nut? If so:

Newer Teflon style: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00838JDTK/?tag=hearthamazon-20

Old-skool Graphite: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002QEUSMS/?tag=hearthamazon-20

I used to work as a plumber's assistant as a kid, and the Graphite was all we had. Never tried the Teflon stuff. Five minute job, minimal material cost, worth a try before you call a plumber. There are YouTube videos showing how to do it.

 

[Highbeam]

You're on Seattle water so you have a meter. At the meter is a valve which will allow you to shut off water to this valve. Seattle uses mostly river water so it is relatively acidic but not very hard. I have seen many sharkbite valves installed at the privately owned main house shutoff downstream of the meter. People use them on water heater connections, which I think is a harsher environment.

Also note that sharkbite is a brand and they make connection styles other then the push on type. I have used lots of crimp on shark bite fittings too.

I am not afraid of shark bites. You always will have the valve at the meter as a backup. Do note that push on sharkbites swivel. Meaning that if you put this line valve on a straight section it will rotate.

 

[iron]

thanks. i decided to go with copper to save some $ on various connections. i'll probably regret it while i'm soldering the washer valves in the valve box as it's melting away in front of me.

 

[Ashful]

There are $7 valves and $30 valves, and fittings and tubing are (relatively) cheap. Buy the good valve for the final install, buy a $7 valve for practice.

It's always good to do a few practice elbows or tees, at the beginning of a session. Do the practice valve, after you've practiced on some cheaper fittings. I've been doing this 35 years, but not so much lately. I'll still do a practice fitting with a new torch, if it's been more than a year since my last.

 

[DickRussell]

For a valve, with more mass than pipe, consider buying a tank of MAPP (methylacetylene-propylene-propadiene) gas, rather than just propane. Each of those three compounds is a C3 chain, like propane, but with double and triple bonds between carbon atoms. The energy release on oxidation is much greater, giving a higher flame temperature. This lets you get the soldered area up to temperature faster, with less heatup of parts more removed from there. You can always wrap a wet rag around the valve body away from the heated area to absorb some of the heat, too. But valves with sweat fittings are regularly connected without disassembly.

 

[iron]

thanks for the tips. i haven't looked too closely at the washer valves yet, but my first impression was that they were of similar weight/thickness to a kohler shower valve that i soldered a year ago. that seemed to be fine (though there were no plastic parts nearby).

 

[Ashful]

For a valve, with more mass than pipe, consider buying a tank of MAPP (methylacetylene-propylene-propadiene) gas, rather than just propane. Each of those three compounds is a C3 chain, like propane, but with double and triple bonds between carbon atoms. The energy release on oxidation is much greater, giving a higher flame temperature. This lets you get the soldered area up to temperature faster, with less heatup of parts more removed from there. You can always wrap a wet rag around the valve body away from the heated area to absorb some of the heat, too. But valves with sweat fittings are regularly connected without disassembly.

Good point. Can't believe there's anyone out there still trying to use propane for sweating pipe, but I guess it's worth saying. I use MAPP handheld for small jobs, a large acetylene tank with hose for the larger jobs.



Acetylene is nice. Hottest flame, lowest radiated heat. MAPP is nice for amateurs, since you can be sloppy with your flame distance (hotter secondary flame), but you can't easily work as close to combustibles with it.

 

[Jazzberry]

Good point. Can't believe there's anyone out there still trying to use propane for sweating pipe, but I guess it's worth saying. I use MAPP handheld for small jobs, a large acetylene tank with hose for the larger jobs.

View attachment 187178

Acetylene is nice. Hottest flame, lowest radiated heat. MAPP is nice for amateurs, since you can be sloppy with your flame distance (hotter secondary flame), but you can't easily work as close to combustibles with it.

I had a gate valve leaking once on a remodel I was doing. I went to a plumbing supply and found the exact same model valve. Pulled the innards out of the old one and replaced with the new stuff and all good. I am betting the old valve was close to twenty years old and they are still making the exact same model.

 

[greg13]

You may want to consider using a stainless Ball valve, at the least a Brass Gate valve. DO NOT use a stop valve, they tend to fail when you need them the most.