Poll Question - Home Double Hung Replacement Windows Vs New Construction Windows?

[Don2222]

Hello

Which do you prefer?
1. Replacement Windows - Quick and easy - Window Company approx $400 - $500 each
2. New Construction Windows - Anderson Windows approx $250 each from Home Depot

My neighbor gave me a replacement window a few years ago that would fit one of my opennings exactly, so I popped it in. Easy to do, we just took out the upper and lower window and side track. Then we put insulation on the top and bottom of the new repplacement window and sqeezed it in. All done and vinly inside and out.

Currently I am replacing a few windows that I have not done so far. It takes time so I have been doing them as I can over the years.

The full length outside screen is a nice feature. No more trying to change the screen with storm windows!

I decided to go with the new construction windows and foam seal the area between the window and the studs in the wall. The worst part about the old windows is the drafty area around the window between the window and the studs. The new replacement windows do not even fix that area!

The bonus with new construction windows is the new inside and outside window casing but more work to install. Also I do have outside paint and extra shingles because many of them do not fit exactly. That is the trick part but can be worth it!

Pic 1 - old drafty window inside
Pic 2 - old drafty window outside
Pic 3 - old drafty window minus casing. See uninsulated space between window and wall studs
Pic 4 - old window shows basement paint colors over the years. 60's Aqua
Pic 5 - New Anderson 400 series in box1
Pic 6 - New Anderson400 series in box2
Pic 7 - New Anderson400 series in box3
Pic 8 - New Anderson400 series inside with valance
Pic 9 - New Anderson400 series inside with valance and blinds
Pic 10 - New Anderson400 series outside with new plastic shutters

 

[Don2222]

A few more pics

Pic 11 - New Anderson400 series inside with wood sill
Pic 12 - New Anderson400 series outside with shingles and with shutters

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If I can redo the outside trim easily and without issues, I prefer to do new construction and make sure there isn't any rot inside the structure and that it's completely weathertight and insulated. On an older house there are already enough holes to let wind and water through. Old houses could also have had a leak and damage that a previous owner caulked over and painted. The chance to get inside and seal them up is too good of an opportunity to pass up.

 

[Don2222]

If I can redo the outside trim easily and without issues, I prefer to do new construction and make sure there isn't any rot inside the structure and that it's completely weathertight and insulated. On an older house there are already enough holes to let wind and water through. Old houses could also have had a leak and damage that a previous owner caulked over and painted. The chance to get inside and seal them up is too good of an opportunity to pass up.

Agree
These windows do not fit so we have to make them fit! However I learned the Marvin Tilt Packs which seem like a great idea, do not make a tight fit in the old window frames and the screens are very expensive! The replacement windows custom made for the old window frames are a perfect fit but do not address the problem of old damaged sills and air leaks between the window frame and wall studs!

These Anderson 400 series are very well built. Vinyl Clad Dual Pane Wood Frame Low E Glazing with Argon Gas.

Do you know what these specs mean on the window sticker? Are they good?

To qualify for a tax credit, the U-Factor must be 0.30 or lower! ! !
Or
To qualify for a tax credit, the SHGC must be 0.30 or lower! ! !


This may help us?
http://www2.buildinggreen.com/blogs/how-read-those-darn-window-performance-stickers

U-Factor as opposed to R value?
R-value measures resistance to heat flow; U-factor is the mathematical inverse (1 divided by R-value gives you U-factor), and measures the rate of that heat flow.
In a cold climate a good U-factor for a window is between 0.17 and 0.39. (That's between R-6 and R-2.5)
Lower is better with U-factor--the opposite of R-value

Window sticker U-Factor
0.29 J.S.(I-P) = 3.45 R-Value

In cold climates on south-facing walls, a higher solar-heat-gain number is better--this supports "passive solar" heating. In this situation, an SHGC value of 0.42 to 0.63 is desirable, and higher is better. (In hot climates, look for values as low as 0.25.)

Solar heat gain coefficient 0.31-- over .30 is better for NE

Visible Transmittance
0.54

Summary
Older single Pane windows are approx R-1
According to DOE:
"Common ENERGY STAR windows only have an R-value of 3
The "30/30" rule is common: U-factors of under 0.30 (which is good) are often paired with SHGC's of under 0.30. That's a good target for the South. For colder climates, I would propose for discussion a "30/40" rule.

Glass coatings are very important to pull the R-Value up.

Here are some more comparison figures.

Clear double pane
U-Factor of 0.48 = R2.08

Clear triple pane
U-Factor of 0.37 = R2.70

See pics below
Click to Enarge

 

[TradEddie]

I ticked "replacement windows" because that's what I did, but now that I've eventually worked my way through my house replacing all the sashes, I'm beginning to rethink it. I had 1977 Andersen Narroline double hung windows. When we moved in ten years ago there were several that needed immediate replacement, but some were in remarkably good condition, although the very thin glass made for very poor insulation. Each year I've replaced a few more, replacing the last one in the fall . Originally I could get replacement Andersen sashes for about or even under $100 per sash, Low E, High Perf, pre-painted. Installation would typically take about ten minutes. The price gradually climbed, and was almost twice that for the last few sashes. Knowing more about air sealing, I may be removing the trim and sealing/insulating now anyway, so perhaps I would have been better to replace everything.

TE

 

[Warm_in_NH]

4-5 hundred seems really high for replacement windows. Is that the installed price?

You already realized that replacement windows don't fix the the lack of insulation around the window frame or any leaks around the old frame. I feel that if the sashes are due for replacement the rest of the unit is too.

That said my other house is old plaster lath walls and the wood work is integrated into the walls and windows and everything else. So replacement windows go in there so I don't have to mess with the trim. I replace the exterior part of the sills and address any exterior issues in the process though.

 

[Don2222]

4-5 hundred seems really high for replacement windows. Is that the installed price?

Yes, that is the installled price, but installing them takes 15-20 mins, just pull the sashes and pop in these!

Here is a similar quality window to the Anderson which is highly rated

The price is approx $450 Installed
Okna Insul-Tec 500 Series - Double Hung Dual Glased with ESP(Energy Savings Package)
(broken link removed to http://www.oknawindows.com/products/replacement_windows/500%20Series/index.stml?portalProcess_dd_0_1_4=showPublicItem&inventory_entry_id=3842)

Okna spec for Dual Glased with ESP

Window sticker U-Factor
0.28 J.S.(I-P) = 3.45 R-Value

SHGC = Solar heat gain coefficient
0.30

VT = Visible Transmittance
0.55

CR = Condensation Resistance
62

Energy Star
0.30

Anderson Spec

Window sticker U-Factor
0.29 J.S.(I-P) = 3.45 R-Value

SHGC = Solar heat gain coefficient
0.31

Visible Transmittance
0.54

 

[Lake Girl]

I prefer new construction windows plus I seal that joint with a butyl tape from Menards.
http://www.protectowrap.com/flashings-building-tape/bt20xl-butyl/

When we installed new windows in our condo as part of a building envelope redo (removed stucco and used panel system), engineer commented we were the only one that had installed the windows properly with the butyl tape to form air and water barrier.

 

[Don2222]

I prefer new construction windows plus I seal that joint with a butyl tape from Menards.
http://www.protectowrap.com/flashings-building-tape/bt20xl-butyl/

When we installed new windows in our condo as part of a building envelope redo (removed stucco and used panel system), engineer commented we were the only one that had installed the windows properly with the butyl tape to form air and water barrier.

That is good info thanks, the tape goes over the 2x4 under the sill and then over the nail flanges after the window is nailed in. Thanks

RESULTs

Well the 1st results are in.

With NO heat on all night, Early this morning it was 39.0 Degrees F outside and 68 Degrees in the living room and 69 degrees in the bedrooms. So let the savings begin to help Pay for the windows! ! !

 

[Don2222]

You already realized that replacement windows don't fix the the lack of insulation around the window frame or any leaks around the old frame. I feel that if the sashes are due for replacement the rest of the unit is too.

Yes, we added Spray Foam between the window and the studs in the framing. Did you do that?
See pic below

 

[Enzo's Dad]

This is kind of an open ended question, not seeing your house in person and knowing what kind of siding and trim you have it is hard to answer this question. I personally have used Harvey Industries replacement windows twice, and could bot be more thrilled. I used the spray foam as well. The going rate on vinyl replacement windows is 350-400 installed, but they will haul off the old windows. The thing with replacement windows is who will be doing the install, and how good are they.

Personally I think new construction windows would open a whole can of worms, You may break trim, or clapboards. If I was doing that i would take all of the siding off and put a house wrap up. When i repainted my house i took all of the clap boards (I had so many that had dry rot it was easier to fix and replace then paint) off and added tyvec, huge difference.

(broken link removed to http://harveybp.com/slimline-double-hung-vinyl-window.aspx)

 

[Warm_in_NH]

We always insulate any available space when putting in new windows, it makes all the difference. Often when replacing older windows that have weight pockets, the installer never insulates the weight pockets because it's time consuming, eats up a bunch of insulation, and no one ever knows the difference. I won't put them in without drilling holes in the sides, and filling the weight pockets with foam prior to ever setting the new replacement window into place.

 

[Don2222]

We always insulate any available space when putting in new windows, it makes all the difference. Often when replacing older windows that have weight pockets, the installer never insulates the weight pockets because it's time consuming, eats up a bunch of insulation, and no one ever knows the difference. I won't put them in without drilling holes in the sides, and filling the weight pockets with foam prior to ever setting the new replacement window into place.

Yes, I agree! A new window is not much good if all the warm air just flows out around it!

So far the new windows seem to be better.

At 6:00 AM this morning on Sept 15,2014 it is 41 Deg F outside and a nice 70 Deg F here in the living room which is above the garage but the garage has a new R18 foam core steel door.
See pic

Anyone else have inside and outside temps like this?

 

[Beer Belly]

We replaced 11 out of 13 windows in our house using replacement windows.....the other two were done prior to us buying the house. Since we also were replacing the interior moldings in the house, we insulated that area around the windows. Fast forward 2 years.......having a hard time getting paint to stick on the Cedar Shingles (yes, paint, previous owners started that problem....rather stain), so we ended up doing Vinyl Siding, Gutters and Leaders....at this time I would of went with new construction windows

 

[woodgeek]

I got a third option...old triple track storm windows replaced with new low-E double track versions, $150/window installed. Gets my 1960 single pane wood primary windows up to R-3 or so, versus the R-2 they would be with conventional storms (which were shot anyway). With a little TLC on the operable weather stripping no detectable drafts in the result.

 

[Don2222]

I got a third option...old triple track storm windows replaced with new low-E double track versions, $150/window installed. Gets my 1960 single pane wood primary windows up to R-3 or so, versus the R-2 they would be with conventional storms (which were shot anyway). With a little TLC on the operable weather stripping no detectable drafts in the result.

Good idea, but the inside moldings should still be pulled out to insulate between the window and the wall studs.
I paid $257 per window at Home Depot for the vinyl clad on outside and wood inside, so only $100 more per window.

 

[woodgeek]

Good idea, but the inside moldings should still be pulled out to insulate between the window and the wall studs.
I paid $257 per window at Home Depot for the vinyl clad on outside and wood inside, so only $100 more per window.

Disagree. IR viewing does not show the window trim or surroundings to be colder than the insulated wall, and the whole house is already airsealed to the point of diminishing returns (would need to add winter ventilation if I went much further).

The unknown is whether the $257 window will still be in good shape in 20 years. I am guessing my 54 yo primary windows will be.

 

[jharkin]

I got a third option...old triple track storm windows replaced with new low-E double track versions, $150/window installed. Gets my 1960 single pane wood primary windows up to R-3 or so, versus the R-2 they would be with conventional storms (which were shot anyway). With a little TLC on the operable weather stripping no detectable drafts in the result.

Amen!.. Thanks for saying it... I have a bad habit about getting preachy on old windows.

Thats exactly what I am doing here.


Pretty much any window that's 1950s or earlier is made with much better wood and better workmanship than anything you can get today short of custom work with reclaimed old growth. Ive got 80 year old windows here that only needed some touch up to the glazing and a paint job. Ive seen 200+ year old windows that where in better shape than 90s plastic junk.

With old fashioned spring bronze weatherstrip I can get them as draft tight as any modern window, and the bronze is good for 100+ years, not 5 like foam.

With single pane glass I never have to worry about an IGU seal blowing and fogging up. Maybe once every 30 to 40 years you might need to reglaze the putty.

Counter weighted windows also operate far better than any modern spring contrivance and can be repaired for a couple bucks with commonly avalable hardware store parts. Mine are so smooth I can open and close them with my pinky.

 

[blades]

I replaced all the windows n my home about 5 or 6 years ago with champion units from box store. Double hung sash kits, wood,alu. clad on out side , double glazed low e argon units. Forget what it cost now but there were 16 windows, but under 3 g with install. They have been working very well- no complaints. Problem with vinyl or all alum. units is expansion/ contraction- not at or even close to the wood framing of most homes. Only type that is besides wood is Fiberglass units which are very close and very pricy.