Possible Encore seam leak - what should I do?

[Gooserider]

I may have a problem with the Encore, does anyone have a copy of the detailed rebuild manual for the model 2550? The parts picture in the owners manual doesn't really tell me what I want to know.

This morning I kicked out the cat, loaded up with fresh splits, and as I've been doing, cranked the air open to let the new load char a bit before I kicked the cat back in and shut the air back down to zero for the remainder of the burn. As the fire was getting going good and I started to think about closing things down, I started to hear a quiet "puffing" sound - not loud, less than the whoosh of the intake air, almost like a part of the normal flames, and I thought I saw a bit of smoke coming up from behind the stove.

Looking closer, it looked like I was getting little puffs of smoke coming out the left rear corner of the stove along the seam between the rear box that holds the refractory package and the left side plate. :gulp: (This isn't the flue collar to the back of the stove seam, this is where the entire stove back attaches)

I kicked into cat mode, and cut the air down; and the fire slowed as expected, and the smoke stopped, but I'm definitely concerned!

I don't have a real good feel for what the airflow is in that area, and why I might be getting smoke with the cat disengaged, but not engaged. I'm also not sure how critical a leak is in that area, or how easy it might be to fix it.

Any quick fixes for this? I don't want to tear the stove down this time of the year, but I also don't want to damage things more seriously, or cause a fire by not fixing something minor before it turns into a big problem.

I noticed there only seems to be one bolt on each side of the stove holding that rear box on - would there be any benefit to tighening up those bolts? How about letting the stove go out and trying to work some stove cement into the outside of that seam?

Other thoughts?

Gooserider

 

[fraxinus]

It's not an ideal solution, but it is possible to seal minor smoke leaks from the outside. The stove needs to be cold, the area well cleaned and dampened and the cement forced into the joint - a caulking gun helps with this. This has worked well for me, but I've never done it on an enamel finish stove - I'd expect less success with the smoother finish. Such small leaks also tend to correct themselves over time - probably creosote in the gap.

 

[elkimmeg]

If there is a leak the 2 bolt rear plate has a gasket in there. Did you see smoke smell smoke? Black stove black gasket cement for now do as suggested find the leak and seam it up. if the leak is that small you do not have to tear a stove down to repair it I remember how things went the last time you worked on a tear down you damaged the critical part so keep it simple

what about less than 1/4 turn on the bolts as a first measure

goose I did not test the stove with a light leak test ,nor did I pay close attention when I was blowing it out this time. I used a vac on blower and not the compressor and air gun
you did check it all out before installation didn't you? I never said I went threw that stove.

If it is a problem, I'm willing to give you your money back, providing it is as clean and the same condition you received it. I will go threw it and sell it,doubling my money.

 

[Gooserider]

If there is a leak the 2 bolt rear plate has a gasket in there. Did you see smoke smell smoke? Black stove black gasket cement for now do as suggested find the leak and seam it up. if the leak is that small you do not have to tear a stove down to repair it I remember how things went the last time you worked on a tear down you damaged the critical part so keep it simple

I do want to keep it simple, though now that I know more about the insides of the stove, I probably could do a better job w/o damaging the refractory. I definitely want to avoid taking the stove out of action for any length of time given that it is heating season. I was definitely seeing smoke. I am also noticing that the stove seems to be burning a bit faster on that end of the firebox - hadn't noticed it as much earlier, and thought some of it was the way I was loading, but now I think it may be an air leak.

what about less than 1/4 turn on the bolts as a first measure

I may give that a try, especially knowing that it's a gasketed seam. I thought it was cement, in which case I would not have expected the bolts to do as much good.

goose I did not test the stove with a light leak test ,nor did I pay close attention when I was blowing it out this time. I used a vac on blower and not the compressor and air gun
you did check it all out before installation didn't you? I never said I went threw that stove.

I totally agree, and I didn't go through the stove as thouroughly as I maybe should have. It looked great to me from the outside, and I didn't see any problems other than the gaskets we knew were bad, which I was able to change. I am NOT blaming you for anything! I am not feeling ripped off, or otherwise upset. I just want to fix the stove so that it is operating as best it possibly can.

If it is a problem, I'm willing to give you your money back, providing it is as clean and the same condition you received it. I will go threw it and sell it,doubling my money.

Like I said, it is NOT a problem - I plan to keep this stove for a good long time and keep it running well.

Gooserider

 

[eernest4]

hi gooserider,

It think ,for now, tighten up the two rear bolts , a little & some caulk gun stove cement in the seam & you will be ok until the end of the heating season. In the spring,you can order a new gasket & black gasket cement & swap out the old gasket & you will be good to go for quite a while.

I had a stove made from a 500 gal , 1/4 inch steel tank, that the front cast iron door was cracked & a pervious owner had sealed it with caulk gun stove cement & I never caught on that there was a crack there, for over a year , until one day I decided to clean & polish the door & descovered the patch job, which is still holding up.

But I dont use that monster anymore, takes 1/4 cord of wood just to warm up the sides, a little.

 

[elkimmeg]

goose all internal plates are gasketed the rear and sides it is possible they show wear after 8/9 years old might even have to tap the rear wedges an bit

 

[webbie]

Always remember this cardinal rule!

No "airtight" stove can withstand positive pressure. I have seen smoke pour right out through WELDS in steel stoves (man, did that shock me!)

There is no amount of gasket or cement that can eliminate that possibility. So in most cases, it is a either a reversing chimney (not in your case) or an imbalance in the combustion. In your case, it sounds like you shut the air down too much and there was excess fuel (smoke) available, resulting in small "backfires".

The problem could be solved in various ways - everything from making certain you cannot 100% shut the primary air (punch a hole in the sucker) to a stovepipe damper or baro to even out the draft. Not that I am promoting stove modification, but just giving the causes and possible solutions.

 

[Gooserider]

Always remember this cardinal rule!

No "airtight" stove can withstand positive pressure. I have seen smoke pour right out through WELDS in steel stoves (man, did that shock me!)

There is no amount of gasket or cement that can eliminate that possibility. So in most cases, it is a either a reversing chimney (not in your case) or an imbalance in the combustion. In your case, it sounds like you shut the air down too much and there was excess fuel (smoke) available, resulting in small "backfires".

The problem could be solved in various ways - everything from making certain you cannot 100% shut the primary air (punch a hole in the sucker) to a stovepipe damper or baro to even out the draft. Not that I am promoting stove modification, but just giving the causes and possible solutions.

Well I want to get to the next warmish spell before letting the stove go out and cool down (I want to avoid those horrible money burning sounds from the gas furnace) so I can put some cement on it, but I did put about a 1/4 turn on the two rear bolts - they were pretty tight already, but I have them a bit tighter now, about as much as I feel comfortable with for bolts their size. Fueling up after that, I let the stove burn on bypass with full open air for longer than I usually do, and didn't have any problem that I saw tonight.

I am considering a butterfly damper, but the seam leak I was getting was not a problem caused by shutting the air down to far, unless it was being done by the thermostat - I had it wide open at that point getting the new load charred so I could kick in the cat...

Elk - I'm feeling a bit confused. I know the Encore Non-cats are all gaskets, but I thought the 2550 cat Encores were still built with cement? Or is that just on some of the parts? I'm still looking for the "shop manual" for it, but the picture and parts list in the back of the owners manual does not seem to show any gaskets on the internals, either in the picture or on the parts list.

Gooserider

 

[elkimmeg]

goose the external casing is refractory seams the internal heat plates left and right have gaskets this is part of channeling super heated air into the cat combustion chamber

Remember i said heat plates air has channels paths that in its travel it is exposed to heat collecting heat to being super heated when it enters the combustion chamber
in order to do this those plates ( held by bolt 7/16 heads have gaskets on the rear usually I pi;ll them to clean up mu stove every season and bolt then back

for now it sounds like in all the moving shifting a piece of refractory fell out probably top corner Just clean up the area small wire brush and apply refractory cement a to seal it push it in there and that will do it This even happens to new stoves when a small piece breaks out and causes a leak Smear it in there push it in and don't worry about appearance nobody is concerned inside the fire box.. Really goose minor issues associated with used stoves to be expected

 

[Gooserider]

Well I'm letting the stove burn down now, hope to put some cement in it 2-3 hours from now when it's cooled enough. Will also try tapping the fireback wedges down a little. I'm also guessing something came loose in moving around, which is why I'm not mad at anyone... I still would like to get the rebuild procedure for the 2550, as I'm finding the picture in the manual to be really not very helpful. It doesn't show stuff I know is there, (such as the gaskets around the griddle and damper) so I don't feel real confident in the rest of it. Also it is hard to tell how all the different parts go together.

Gooserider

 

[swestall]

Hey Goose, if you have a little extra space there, you can pick up some of it by pulling those bolts out and adding a washer or two; that'll give you room to tighten if you actually need it. You also might try putting the "goop" in while they are out as the gap might open a bit more, then when you tighten up you'll get as good a seal as you are going to without a tear down. In fact, maybe just as good.

 

[Gooserider]

Status report - I finally got the stove to burn out and cool down about 5:00 this evening - the downside of stoves that give you long burns, is it takes them a LONG time to burn out....

Looking into the damper area, I spotted what looked like a couple of gaps in the cement on each side, possibly matching up with the spots where the bolts that hold the back on, and I filled them with cement in case they were leaking.

I tapped the fireback wedges, and got about an 8th inch or so further movement out of each one

I filled the outside seam between the back plate and the side on each side of the stove, along with what I could feel of the gap between the stove top and the sides and rear of the stove.

I am back to burning again, haven't noticed a huge difference in the way the stove is working, but it wasn't a huge problem to begin with, so hopefully I've gotten it.

Gooserider