Prefab to insert thoughts/opinions & possibilities.

[srussell1021]

Hey everyone. I just bought a new home and it has a prefab fireplace installed with a fan which I plan to use this winter just to see how it heats, if at all, but also because I will most likely be busy with new home ownership and won't have the time/funds to dive right into a fireplace insert. I was hoping to get some of your guys thoughts and opinions on an insert that I could possibly work with. I took some pictures (dunno if they will be helpful and can take more once fully moved in), but my unofficial measurements seem to be 15 3/4 (maybe 16) deep and 29 or so across and 40 x 40in on the outside from door to door and floor to the top of the unit. I attempted to get a model number but did not see any on the inside of the doors or firebox. This is a town home with a chase so I'm guessing I will need a grade A liner or something of the sort to line the chimney. Any thoughts you guys could give me I would greatly appreciate. Thanks. Let me know if the pictures help at all.

 

[bholler]

We will need the make and model of the fireplace in order to tell you if an insert is allowed. I am also curious what that u channel is about i have never seen that before.

 

[Andy S.]

I was severely limited by size and approval for my EC-36 prefab. As bholler says, make and model are needed to do that research. Just FYI, I ended up with a Hampton HI200. It is a nice little heater and works as advertised but there is only so much you can do with a 1.4 ft3 firebox. My other options were the Quad 2700i (1.8 ft3) and the Lopi Revere (2.2 ft3) which was my choice but my wife demanded the HI200 for looks.

 

[sen166]

I was also in the same situation you are now when I purchased my first and current home. The house had a pre-fab zero clearance fireplace that was like leaving a window open all winter. Originally I installed a Jotul C350 (~1.2 Cubic Ft Firebox) that was the only size insert that would fit the fireplace opening. It worked well, however, I was left wanting more due to the very short burn times and lack of whole house heating. If you install an insert into that pre-fab fireplace it will more or less most likely act as a wood burning space heater just for the room (depending on home layout and total square footage).

After one year of using the insert, I did a total overhaul; I removed both the insert and pre-fab fireplace, hung drywall over the opening, and installed a free standing wood stove on a newly build hearth. After only using the new free standing stove for approximately 3 months after it was installed I couldn't be happier. I have much longer burn times and whole house heating.

I would highly recommend considering this as an option for you if you are looking at heating your whole home with wood. Feel free to PM me with any questions as I would gladly speak with you about the situation.

 

[mosquito]

There is alot more to your question than you realize. Call some local installers for estimates. Estimates are free . Pick their brain. Read alot, do searches on here and the net. Call your insurance. And form your own opinion. Most agree it is not a safety issue but a liability issue. The only problem i see is that is a small prefab like others have already stated. Good luck

 

[RSNovi]

I was also in the same situation you are now when I purchased my first and current home. The house had a pre-fab zero clearance fireplace that was like leaving a window open all winter. Originally I installed a Jotul C350 (~1.2 Cubic Ft Firebox) that was the only size insert that would fit the fireplace opening. It worked well, however, I was left wanting more due to the very short burn times and lack of whole house heating. If you install an insert into that pre-fab fireplace it will more or less most likely act as a wood burning space heater just for the room (depending on home layout and total square footage).

After one year of using the insert, I did a total overhaul; I removed both the insert and pre-fab fireplace, hung drywall over the opening, and installed a free standing wood stove on a newly build hearth. After only using the new free standing stove for approximately 3 months after it was installed I couldn't be happier. I have much longer burn times and whole house heating.

I would highly recommend considering this as an option for you if you are looking at heating your whole home with wood. Feel free to PM me with any questions as I would gladly speak with you about the situation.

I feel pretty similar sen166. I have a BR42 prefab and put in a Jotul C350. It burns great and I don't mind the short burn times because adding wood is part of the burning fun. I have to run it hard to heat my living room since my floorpan is so open. If I could make an alcove and fit a decent stove I wouldn't mind doing that. I really don't have to room to put a wood stove in front of the existing fireplace.

Overall the C350 is a ton better than just the prefab. Having a wood stove in the basement makes me realize how much more heat I could have though.

 

[srussell1021]

Thanks for the ideas. I guess the first order of business is to find the make and model of this thing and then have a dealer/installer to come out and give me a bunch of details and then reconvene on here for some opinions and insight. Thanks for the help. The house is 1200 sq. ft with a 600 sq. ft basement (fireplace is on the main floor). I am looking to stay with an insert if possible as it won't stick out as far as a free standing stove, however if the insert is in no way a possibility once I get more details I am definitely open to a free standing stove or maybe even a pellet stove.

 

[Wood Collector]

I just installed an Enviro Venice 1200 into a pre-fab zero clearance similar to yours. Mine also had the louvers underneath the pre-fab fire-brick floor. I removed the lower louver and discovered the fire-brick floor was only supported by sheet metal screws! The area under the firebrick floor was exactly 6". So I laid out where the feet of the insert would go and put 6"x6"x 1/4" tube steel tight to the floor bottom to carry the load of the new insert and full height insulated liner. Had I not looked under that floor and added that steel it would have collapsed. I had a sweep come over and do the final install, I showed him what I had done and he said "a little over kill but if it helps you sleep at night more power to ya!" So my point to this whole thing is please look at the structural integrity of the existing pre-fab before you but in a 300lb insert with an additional 100lbs of chimney liner on top of it.

 

[Wood Collector]

Here is a picture the day it was installed, actually it was Aug 26th. And yes I'm in the process of changing the mantle clearances...

 

[srussell1021]

That is sweet looking. That is all I want, simple but efficient and effective. Did you do all the chimney liner work yourself or have the installer do it? Also if you don't mind me asking what it ran you for everything? I am not very handy in the woodstove/fireplace/chimney area. I know how to spot, split, and stack good wood and tell when its seasoned and can operate a wood stove well but the know how to install anything I am clueless.

 

[mosquito]

Looks nice

 

[bholler]

That is sweet looking. That is all I want, simple but efficient and effective. Did you do all the chimney liner work yourself or have the installer do it? Also if you don't mind me asking what it ran you for everything? I am not very handy in the woodstove/fireplace/chimney area. I know how to spot, split, and stack good wood and tell when its seasoned and can operate a wood stove well but the know how to install anything I am clueless.

I will say that it is very likely that your prefab fireplace says that you are not allowed to install an insert in it. Most don't allow it. The way i see it that means it cant be done and still be code compliant. You will have to make that decision yourself after explaining the situation to your insurance company and getting their ok

 

[srussell1021]

I will say that it is very likely that your prefab fireplace says that you are not allowed to install an insert in it. Most don't allow it. The way i see it that means it cant be done and still be code compliant. You will have to make that decision yourself after explaining the situation to your insurance company and getting their ok

Don't tell me that lol, if thats the case I guess a pellet stove would be the only other decent heating option, because if I can't do an insert, a free standing stove would probably be out of the question?

 

[begreen]

A freestanding stove on the hearth in front of the prefab is ok as long as a full liner is run up to the cap. The would require extending the hearth and a rear-venting stove with a flue collar height that is below the top of the door opening. Or tear out the whole shebang and put a proper hearth + freestanding stove in that corner. Or replace it with an EPA fireplace. Or just try it out for a year as previously suggested.

Did you ever get the make/model of the soapstone stove offer?

 

[mosquito]

Call insured professionals in your area and get their opinions . Make sure the reputable and insured. Check the better business Bureau. As you can see by previous posts its done alot. Some people are dead against it. Read study and form your own opinion one way or the other.

 

[bholler]

Call insured professionals in your area and get their opinions . Make sure the reputable and insured. Check the better business Bureau. As you can see by previous posts its done alot. Some people are dead against it. Read study and form your own opinion one way or the other.

Well said I am one who absolutely will never do it for a customer and will always recommend against it. I will also not work on an install like this. But if a homeowner is aware of the issues and makes the decision to do it anyway that is up to them. It is even better if they can find a pro silly enough to take the liability of one of these installs

 

[mosquito]

Im 4 for 4 on silly professionals

 

[srussell1021]

A freestanding stove on the hearth in front of the prefab is ok as long as a full liner is run up to the cap. The would require extending the hearth and a rear-venting stove with a flue collar height that is below the top of the door opening. Or tear out the whole shebang and put a proper hearth + freestanding stove in that corner. Or replace it with an EPA fireplace. Or just try it out for a year as previously suggested.

Did you ever get the make/model of the soapstone stove offer?

I did not get the make and model of the soapstone because I decided against it as I didn't have the money with all the other expenses of buying the home and I didn't even know if it was a possibility for my home and I wouldn't be using until at least next season if I could get it installed. I am going to try out this particular fireplace for this year just to see if it heats at all and if it does how the room/rest of the house heats and then hopefully if things go correctly I can get a professional to line the chimney and do an insert.

 

[northwinds]

I did not get the make and model of the soapstone because I decided against it as I didn't have the money with all the other expenses of buying the home and I didn't even know if it was a possibility for my home and I wouldn't be using until at least next season if I could get it installed. I am going to try out this particular fireplace for this year just to see if it heats at all and if it does how the room/rest of the house heats and then hopefully if things go correctly I can get a professional to line the chimney and do an insert.

Sounds like a plan. You can use that time to get increase the size of your seasoned wood supply.

 

[Wood Collector]

srussell, I did a full lining from stove top to chimney cap. It is a pre-insulated 6" liner .006 stainless steel inside 1/2" of ceramic insulation and .005 outer stainless steel wrap approx. 31' long. It was not to difficult to install into the existing 8" pre-fab chimney. Like the others said, check with your insurance company also your building inspector and or local fire marshal. I interviewed (3) different chimney sweeps to help me with this and the one that was the most detail oriented and had installed inserts into pre-fab units before is the one I selected. He signed off the unit and I submitted all the paper work to the insurance company and to the manufacturer of the insert and they accepted it for the registration and warranty. keep in mind you must keep all existing louvers and air vents open around the existing fireplace and you cannot modify it in any way with the exception of removing the flu damper and the spark screen and track. I did not order the surround for that reason, it would have covered the vents. I am making custom trim pieces that are only 4" wide for the sides and an 1 1/2" wide for the top.

 

[srussell1021]

Sounds like a plan. You can use that time to get increase the size of your seasoned wood supply.

Any tips on how to maximize heat output of this prefab fireplace? It has a fan built in which the previous owner said he thinks will heat well but that could of just been him making it sound better than it actually is. I

srussell, I did a full lining from stove top to chimney cap. It is a pre-insulated 6" liner .006 stainless steel inside 1/2" of ceramic insulation and .005 outer stainless steel wrap approx. 31' long. It was not to difficult to install into the existing 8" pre-fab chimney. Like the others said, check with your insurance company also your building inspector and or local fire marshal. I interviewed (3) different chimney sweeps to help me with this and the one that was the most detail oriented and had installed inserts into pre-fab units before is the one I selected. He signed off the unit and I submitted all the paper work to the insurance company and to the manufacturer of the insert and they accepted it for the registration and warranty. keep in mind you must keep all existing louvers and air vents open around the existing fireplace and you cannot modify it in any way with the exception of removing the flu damper and the spark screen and track. I did not order the surround for that reason, it would have covered the vents. I am making custom trim pieces that are only 4" wide for the sides and an 1 1/2" wide for the top.

Awesome, from what I've seen on here and hearing from others is that it is definitely possible to make this work and have an insert installed that will be safe. The tricky part is finding the right reputable people to actually agree to do it and then confirming that your insurance allows it and deems it safe to use. It seems to me that there is no blanket agreement nationwide on these types of installs and ratings for safety with all insurance companies. If your insurance company and neighborhood installers are very strict and just deny all of these installs because of liability issues (understandable) then it can't be done, but if those same people are confident in their work and feel it is 100% safe to do and insurance approves it its a go.

 

[Wood Collector]

Good luck & think safty! I hope it works out for you. Not easy but if you do things right it should work out. For what its worth there are a number of zero clearance wood stoves out there that you may like. Look into the Kozy Heat unit. I almost bought that unit but was outside of my budget.

(broken link removed to http://www.kozyheat.com/media/34761/woodburning-usa.pdf)

 

[bholler]

Im 4 for 4 on silly professionals

Are they csia or nfi certified? If so by doing this they are violating their professional code of ethics and are putting them selves at serious risk.

 

[srussell1021]

Good luck & think safty! I hope it works out for you. Not easy but if you do things right it should work out. For what its worth there are a number of zero clearance wood stoves out there that you may like. Look into the Kozy Heat unit. I almost bought that unit but was outside of my budget.

(broken link removed to http://www.kozyheat.com/media/34761/woodburning-usa.pdf)

Another question for you gentlemen. How efficient can prefab fireplaces be? Obviously never as efficient as other means but is there anything I can check for or modestly upgrade with my current prefab fireplace to make it more efficient? I hear of different grate blowers, different fan/blower installs that may help. If these aren't even worth it as I am looking to possibly upgrade (insert or stove) next year just let me know.

 

[begreen]

A good quality EPA phase II zero clearance fireplace can be quite efficient and a good heater. Look at the major brands for specs and options. The blower choices will depend on the house. For some places being able to deliver heat to another closed off section or the end of a ranch hallway is a real plus. Good units in varying sizes and styles are made by Kozy, BIS, RSF, Northstar, SBI (Valcourt), Pacific Energy, Quadrafire, Travis (FPX) and others.