prevent freezing basement

[gloves12]

Hi! I live in Minnesota in a small 1-story rambler with a basement, 1,600 square feet total.

I'm leaning towards putting a stove on the main floor rather than in the basement, after reading on this forum for a while. My question is: do I have any hope of trickling some heat down into the basement? Not enough to be comfortable, but just enough to prevent the pipes from freezing and stuff - maybe,75 degrees upstairs, 50 degrees in the basement?

Otherwise, I'm going with a small (1-2 cubic feet) stove, and hoping to just heat the livingroom / kitchen. =)

 

[Seasoned Oak]

You wont get much heat down there without a fan blowing warm air down somehow. If its mostly underground you wont need much heat a t all to keep it 50 -55 depending on air leaks. In a
reasonably well insulated house the basement should not go below 50 with no added heat at all.

 

[gloves12]

Really?? Wow, that would be sweet. I do hear about lots of abandoned houses having burst pipes here - it get's very cold, like -10F, -20F sometimes, is that still true?

 

[T-roy_]

I do exactly what you're proposing to do. S. Oak is right. My basement stays about 52 degrees(I'm also in MN).If you have forced air heat you can run the fan(only)on the furnace to get some heat to the basement. It helps a little. I close the registers on the upper floor and leave the basement ones open. Go for it man!

 

[ckr74]

Nothing wrong with a basement stove, if done right. It will give you more usable living space in the winter.

 

[gloves12]

Nice - good to here, T-roy, I think I'll go that route. Cool beans, thanks!

 

[T-roy_]

But you'll miss out on the view of the fire......and you'll have to haul all your wood to the basement. Do you have a walkout basement?

 

[gloves12]

I meant, I'll go the main-floor route =) sorry, my post was a bit ambiguous.

 

[moresnow]

I have the similiar setup you are considering. I ran one small portable electric heater in the basement (when my boy lived downstairs). Rarely broke 56F. Fine except the shower and washer were down there! Main floor easily held 75F or higher. Keep in mind most small stove's requires regular stoking. I may try circulating with my forced air this winter as well. Good luck.

 

[peakbagger]

The real problem is you need to air seal and insulate the basement. The ground temperature is above freezing all you need to do is keep the heat from getting out. Call your utility and see if they have energy audits at reduced price and many have subsidies for air sealing. If the walls are flat, then glue EPS board from the sill down to couple of feet below the outside ground line. Then hire a foam contractor to spray the boxes above the sills down over the sills and onto the top of the foam. Whatever you spend on insulation save you wood forever which means less cutting stacking and feeding the stove.

The other thing to consider is that the ground temp in Minnesota may be over freezing but probably 40 degree F. Anytime you try to heat the basement above the outside ground temp you are heating the ground. Therefore if you really want to cut down heat loss, finish insulating the walls down to the floor and then consider insulating the basement floor. There are special interlocking plywood "tiles" with a raised plastic deck underneath that will go over most floors and allow water leaks (if present) to flow to the floor drain. Even though its not insulated, the air gap under the floor and the plywood does provide some R value and will substantially reduce the amount of heat that goes into the ground. The one major caveat with insulating a basement is to make sure that the house has proper drainage around the walls and proper backfill. Older homes backfilled with expansive soils like clay sometimes has issues as the uninsulated basement walls keep the clay from freezing and pushing in on the walls.

By the way, I live in an area with similar winter weather issues as Minnesota and have seen -35 F on occasion and -25 most winters.

 

[tarzan]

The stove size will depend on your weather and insulation. We know the weather there can be brutal but not how well insulated your home is. My recommendation would be to all but ignore mfg. square ft. ratings and burn times as there is no standard there. Instead, research (here) until you get an idea of what size stove you need, then stay on the larger side if possible. The advantages will be longer burn times and the ability to burn smaller loads if need be. The opposite of the ladder would not hold true for smaller stoves.

How does your basement play in? As a living space or a storage area that houses utilities? If your only need is to basicly keep the pipes from freezing then I think putting the stove in the living area would most definitely be the better option as you could use a small amount of supplemental heat to achieve that, if need be. If, on the other hand, the basement is used as a living area, or will be in the foreseeable future, then it would be extremely hard to heat it substantially from above and putting the stove there plus proper insulation would be the route I would take.

Then there's also chimney issues to consider.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

If yur putting in a small stove you wont heat the upper floors from the basement. You would need a larger stove to do that as the basement will suck the majority of the heat up. Small stove must be ion the room yur trying to heat.

 

[gloves12]

Yup! I'm definitely putting the stove upstairs, thanks =) Good to know.

 

[firefighterjake]

No issues here in Maine with the basement (well more like a crawl space . . . although not in the traditional sense of a a crawl space -- it's a basement, but just very low and pretty much nothing is down there other than my well's pump and easy access to cable, electric, plumbing, etc.

Since 2008 I have had no issues with frozen and burst pipes. As mentioned the ground heat combined with a bit of radiated heat from the upstairs keeps things warm enough . . . although tightening things up with sill insulation and foaming holes has helped a lot as well. I also suspect the residual heat off hot water pipes helps.

If we are forecast for a particularly brutal stretch of sub-zero temps I will sometimes fire up the oil boiler and run it for a few minutes 2-3 times a day just to bring a little more heat into the area and to move the water around a bit.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Yup! I'm definitely putting the stove upstairs, thanks =) Good to know.

I heat 3 floors from the basement ,but i use a 3CU FT Harman 300-TL which pumps out massive amounts of heat. Too much actually for any one room ,so im overheating the basement to get to about 75 in the living area above. A 1 to 2 CU ft stove will need a lot of reloading.

 

[iron]

i agree on the comment re: insulation. i'm just embarking on my own basement project and was surprised to find that a contractor could spray 3" of closed cell foam for 500SF for <$1800 in seattle. it's a no-brainer for me to do that vs. rigid foam + tape + locally spray foam. everything i read about CCF is that it makes a world of difference in your basement comfort level.

also, for the fan, my understanding is that you should blow cold air up from the basement towards your stove/fireplace to create a better convective loop.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Around here the underground temp of 45 -50 degrees will prevent freez ups in basements that are NOT insulated as long as you can prevent too much cold air coming in from above. Iv seen homes go thru most of the winter with no heat source at all just on ground heat and not freeze pipes.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I scored a good deal on polyiso foil foam boards...$13 for 1" 4x8 sheets. Getting 40 delivered this weekend and will use them as basement insulation before the cold weather sets in.

I should also mention that I do not intend to finish the basement at this time..mostly looking to take the chill off and provide a good vapor barrier. We pull about 5 gallons of water with a dehumidifier every 1.5 days.

 

[yooper08]

Pipes are at risk of freezing if they're exposed in an unheated area of the house. Frozen hoses that are still connected or spigots are usually culprit otherwise.

I also have a ranch and have heated only the upstairs (until this coming winter). You won't have any heat trickling down to the basement, that will level off around 50 degrees.

 

[gloves12]

Pipes are at risk of freezing if they're exposed in an unheated area of the house. Frozen hoses that are still connected or spigots are usually culprit otherwise.

I also have a ranch and have heated only the upstairs (until this coming winter). You won't have any heat trickling down to the basement, that will level off around 50 degrees.

Hmm, ok, shoot - even if it's a medium stove, and I insulate a bit?
I can always just throw a new thermostat in the basement and have the gas furnace heat that part, so I think I'm pretty set either way, but good to here more perspectives, thanks!

 

[prezes13]

I work for a local water Dept and I have seen my share of frozen water pipes. Insulate them especially where they going through the foundation and make sure there is no open windows which would bring the cold air. Pipes do not burst open when they freeze but when they thaw. So if it happenes open your spigot and try to heat the pipe slowly.

 

[yooper08]

Hmm, ok, shoot - even if it's a medium stove, and I insulate a bit?
I can always just throw a new thermostat in the basement and have the gas furnace heat that part, so I think I'm pretty set either way, but good to here more perspectives, thanks!

Should have been more clear - you should be ok as long as the pipes are within an area of the house that's heated. An example of an unheated area would be the garage, unless its a tuck under where there are heated rooms above it.

That's assuming that where the foundation meets the house is decently protected and there aren't a lot areas for cold air to seep in.

 

[gloves12]

Should have been more clear - you should be ok as long as the pipes are within an area of the house that's heated. An example of an unheated area would be the garage, unless its a tuck under where there are heated rooms above it.

Oop, sorry - should have said that, yeah. Thanks!

 

[peakbagger]

There is member on this site that sells timers that hook up to circulator pumps on the hot water heating system to run the circulators every few hours to make sure there aren't any cold spots. Pipes usually freeze in just one spot and then the ice moves in either direction so if you can keep the water moving it usually doesn't freeze unless you have huge hole in the wall.

Once you get the wood stove going on a cold day, go in the basement with a wet sponge (or sensitive wife) and move you damp hand around the sills and any other potential cracks in the basement. I expect you will go through several cans of spray foam and caulking on your first go around.

Unfortunately most folks do it backwards, install the stove. burn green wood the first season, complain how much wood they are burning, then get dry wood and still complain about how much wood they are burning and then finally air sealing and insulating the house.

 

[DickRussell]

.... Pipes do not burst open when they freeze but when they thaw. So if it happenes open your spigot and try to heat the pipe slowly.

I must question this, although what may be meant is that leakage may not occur until thawing begins, as the ice will seal the pipe.

Upon freezing, water expands by about 9% in volume (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Density_of_water_and_ice). If the volume is constrained by an unyielding container, pressure goes up enormously. Copper usually cannot contain this pressure and can rupture. However, if the point of freezing is in an area with elbows or tees, the pressure of ice formation can simply pop the fittings open. I had this happen to me when I lost heat in a cottage for a day or so in bitter weather. When I crawled under, I discovered half a dozen popped open joints, one with a long tongue of ice protruding from it, but no actual pipe ruptures. The repair was easier, as no sections of pipe had to be replaced.