Preventing frozen domestic water pipes with woodstove

[JPapiPE]

I have a hot air furnace so heat pipes won't be subject to freezing, but I do have one feed pipe that is in a closed in chase in the furthest reach of my 1100 sq ft mobile home. It's a pretty sad set up I have here and know that this is the first pipe that will freeze if any of them do. I even have to crawl beneath the trailer to access the main shutoff and to disconnect and reconnect the outside hose. I'm not clustrophobic but the space between the ground and the bottom of the trailer is only 15". Lucky for me the main shutoff and hose valve connections are only 6 or 8' from the access panel. The former tenant did a good job of insulating the skirting which is covered with vertical vinyl siding and then he squeezed 2" rigid insulation into the make shift framework beneath the trailer. Pretty tight job too. I guess i know the value of fans to transfer heat into the far corners of this leaky boat. Old trailer piping is only 1/4' copper feeds, although the shutoff is linked into 1/2" copper.

I have a septic so there is no sewer and i only pay for town water at the rate of $84 every three months. That is the minimum one can pay. I did talk to the water works people and realized I was only using 1 /3 of the alloted water for the minimum price. So to keep pipes from freezing i could run a faucet at a very small flow during the coldest periods and probably not exceed the minimum. Last winter we got an early snow in November that lasted through April. We got 150 inches of snow and it never warmed up tp melt the stuff...so besides having to shovel a lot of snow I got the benefit of insulation around my trailer skirting. I'm wondering at what temperature do i have to keep the room with the feed pipe if we have only cold and little snow? They say wind is the culprit in most freezing pipes. I do have an electric outlet beneath the trailer so i could apply some heat tape , but i dont relish or endoose that idea, as snow fall covers the access Panel. Big Time Last Season. At what point should I start the faucets flowing?
Thanks for your consideration....Joe

 

[savageactor7]

Good afternoon JPapiPE we use heat tape in our problem areas and the rest of the pipes are covered with the foamed pipe insulation you can buy at HD. Nows a good time to lock down all you pipes...good heads up for thinking about it now.

 

[JPapiPE]

I had heard that heat tape is expensive to run...like maybe a dollar a day and the older stuff was given a worthless, and potentially fire hazzard by consumer reports. But this was years ago that I read that article, so now I suspect the heat tape on the market is UL approved..et. al... Can you tell me how much energy it consumes /day for a simple 6'-12' lenghth of the stuff. I do know a plumbers call is many times more expensive than a dollar a day, but I am always the plumber unless the break is between the street valve and the shut off...I do use many expletives when this situation occurs. It seems to help with the repairs.

Thanks again Joe

 

[Carl]

I had heard that heat tape is expensive to run...like maybe a dollar a day and the older stuff was given a worthless, and potentially fire hazzard by consumer reports. But this was years ago that I read that article, so now I suspect the heat tape on the market is UL approved..et. al... Can you tell me how much energy it consumes /day for a simple 6'-12' lenghth of the stuff. I do know a plumbers call is many times more expensive than a dollar a day, but I am always the plumber unless the break is between the street valve and the shut off...I do use many expletives when this situation occurs. It seems to help with the repairs.

Thanks again Joe

I think the heat tape woud be the best solution for your trailer. Any pipes not inside the trailors insulated floor should be taped. It is turned on by a thermostat on the tape and won't run unless the air temp near it is 32 or lower........so it probably wouldn't run all day or all winter, just when needed. At least you are looking into this problem before it freezes and puts you way ahead of others.

 

[savageactor7]

Sorry I can't tell you the exact cost but It's not all that much compared to before we used it and the hassle with frozen water lines in the basement. Also any small openings where the wind chill can penetrate reek havoc should be stuffed with insulation or covered with a bale of hay etc. Wind can make just a regular normal cold temp...freezing cold.

 

[Redox]

http://www.tycothermal.com/usa/engl...sidential/pipe_freeze_protection/default.aspx

This is not your garden variety heat tape! It's very pricy, but cannot burn out or cause a fire, even if you cross it over itself. Every square inch of it is self regulating and uses about 3 watts per foot at 40F. It is mainly used for commercial water lines, but can be used for ice melting and other applications. You can buy it by the foot and terminate each end or even splice it, or you can buy premade assemblies in various lengths. Grainger carries it as well as many HVAC wholesalers. PM me if you can't find it by the foot.

Chris

 

[Hanko]

the heat tape redox mentioned is good stuff. I would put a switch in the living area or a timmer to turn in on or off at your command, seperate circuit of course. that seems a better idea than running water, (wasting water)

 

[trailblaster]

We had a different problem two years ago with pipes freezing. two years ago, the snow came late in the season and what we had on the ground in January was very dry and windblown almost leaving the ground bare around the well pipe in the yard. we started getting little flow and ice chunks coming out of the main feed into the house because the well pipe would get so cold. My fix was building a replica of the house that was just tall enough to scale to fit over the well made out of MDF wood and insulate it with 3" of foam board. now the well never freezes.

 

[JPapiPE]

None of my water pipes are insulated beneath my trailer. The former owner insulated the skirting with 2 rigid insulation. He also said he hadn't had a frozen pipe in the 20 years he lived here, but that was using the hot air furnace. He did say before that time it was always the water meter under the trailer that froze. Maybe 2 or 3 times. I did notice while under the trailer that the water meter is wrapped in a styrofoam package, which i take to insulation. He claimed wind was the culprit for the frozen pipes and he did take some good steps to reduce pipe exposure to wind.

I have only lived here one winter and we got an early november snow that stayed and then an additional 150" on top of that..so the skirting was well insulated last winter. The new type of heat pipe insulation sounds very promising, especially if i can cut it to fit my needs and terminate lenghts with ease. It sounds like smart stuff and i do have an account a WW grainger, but haven't had a chance to look it up. As i said I do have an electrical under the trailer near the pipes and it is the end of the curcuit so a switch would be very easy to install. Thanks any estimates on the smart tape from WWGrainger that allows for easy termination and seems to be foolproof? We are probably talking less than 50 feet total with maybe 3 different separate runs.
Thanks so much Joe

 

[begreen]

Joe, you may be warm enough in the place now that you can add a small blower in the house, blowing a little warm air down there. I also like Pook's suggestion of a remote thermostat. Pick up a cheap one from Radio Shack and place it safely near where the pipes froze last winter. The batteries should last all winter. It'll give you peace of mind plus an alert about when to leave the faucet trickling.

 

[JPapiPE]

Actually I didn't have any frozen pipes last year, but since I am switching to wood stove heat this year the pipes I'm worried about come up in a room farthest from the stove. And last year that room had 2 hot air registers. I think I'll go with the good heat tape and install a switch in the questionalble room. Also a remote thermometer will help me gague when I need to turn on the heat...

Good suggestions all, Thanks very much

 

[Girl]

I unplug when temp & wind are mild to keep costs down.
I plug it in if I leave for an overnight or weekend away.
I have yet to have a frozen pipe & from what I am told by my landlord, the first person who hasn't had frozen pipes.
Hopefully I didn't just jinx myself!
You are smart to think about it now.

 

[jadm]

I have pipes in our master bathroom that are not well insulated and are up against an outside wall. I got an indoor/outdoor thermometer and when temps. outside drop down below 32* I do let the water drip. I only do that at night because during the day the water is used often enough to keep it from freezing. The indoor temp. in that bathroom stays at about 55* during our colder winter months. I don't like 'wasting' water so I try to minimize the flow as much as possible and wait as long as I can before turning it on - like at midnight....Most expensive by-product of this is that my washers wear down and I have to have them replaced in the spring....

 

[begreen]

Word - ceramic washerless faucets. They have made my life so much better.

 

[JPapiPE]

When you say drip, is that a literal drip or rarther a real slow stream? As I said at the begining of this thread that i am paying for the minimum charge. $82 every three months and when i called the water co they said i could use 3 times as much as i am using and still have to pay the minimum charge...so a drip is not too scary. Thanks for your input.

 

[jadm]

When you say drip, is that a literal drip or rarther a real slow stream?

I intend a 'drip' but it ends up being a thin stream mostly because I get scared there won't be enough flow and would rather err on the side of caution. I run both hot and cold taps so getting the first drip going is no problem but is hard to tell if the second faucet has kicked in or not....so, voila, a stream...

I haven't noticed a huge jump in our water bill because of this so I think you are safe given the amount of water you are being charged for regardless of your use.

 

[jadm]

Word - ceramic washerless faucets. They have made my life so much better.

Can washerless faucets be left running minimally without damage???? Certainly would make my life easier too. My plumber would be glad to have a job to do!

 

[begreen]

Correct. And they don't get ruined by tiny flecks of rust if you have galvanized piping. They don't harden after a few years either. They are basically zero maintenance.

 

[jadm]

Correct. And they don't get ruined by tiny flecks of rust if you have galvanized piping. They don't harden after a few years either. They are basically zero maintenance.

Wish I knew this 3 weeks ago....before I had the washers changed out Typical. Well, I will put it on my 'wish' list and, in the mean time, enjoy the new washers that were just installed in my old faucets. :smirk:

 

[KWillets]

Just put in Pex and stop worrying.